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Why hasn't there been a new major sports league?

https://humaninvariant.substack.com/p/why-hasnt-there-been-a-new-major
18•surprisetalk•1h ago

Comments

1970-01-01•49m ago
Are they just going to gloss over Twitch and video gaming like that? I'm fairly sure it qualifies if you don't specifically exclude their online only influence.
morkalork•47m ago
ESports is a sizeable chunk of the article?
1970-01-01•43m ago
And yet it's not a "new major sports league" ?
LocalH•37m ago
There's a weird perception that's floating out there claiming that video gaming cannot be "a sport", just because it's more mental than physical (although even that varies per game, for example high-level Guitar Hero players require extreme endurance and stamina). I also would wager a non-zero percentage of people with such mindset would also deny that chess is a sport, unless they grandfather it in due to the sheer age of chessdom.

It doesn't help that there is a partially overlapping mindset that believes that video games are for kids, something to grow out of. Since the vast majority of competitive gamers at the extreme top end are young adults, that theory is incorrect, but those who happen to be in the center of that Venn diagram would probably also deny that successful Twitch streamers have a "real job", etc.

MangoToupe•24m ago
This doesn't strike me as that weird. Playing a guitar also takes extreme stamina, for instance, but it takes a great deal more technical skill to hit the rhythmn and fingering. (Or at least if that isn't the case, that's certainly the perception.) Many guitarists also write their own music, and the truly impressive ones improvise.

Many sports require full-body coordination. I would also consider, say, a skilled ballet dancer much more obviously impressive and intriguing than being the best video gamer in the world. The only reason one might not consider it a sport is that it's not as competition-oriented (and I may be completely wrong in that; I can't feign deep knowledge of ballet).

I don't think it's disparaging to not consider video games a sport, either, it just seems like a category error. Much of the skill is simply not visible to people not intimately familiar with the game, the mechanics, and what might be difficult about it. I would put it in the same category as, say, live coding, or watching an expert artisan at work. I also can't fathom, say, the skill it takes to operate a crane as a world-class expert, or ice carving, or fixing a mechanical watch, or blowing glass.

Frankly, I also don't consider most streaming to be a "real" job. But that's probably related to the fact that I don't respect most content that emerges. But you could say the same thing about podcasting, or being an opinion columnist, or a pundit/talking head. This doesn't mean it doesn't take skill or effort; I just think it's not producing much of value.

vitus•27m ago
Not by $$$, which is the main focus of the article.

In the second table, LoL esports is explicitly highlighted as a success by mindshare, but not profitability. And below that:

> LoL Esports: loses hundreds of millions of dollars annually, exists solely as a marketing mechanism to get people to play the actual game

jkafjanvnfaf•22m ago
"Esports" is not a league. That would be like saying "sports" is a league.

There are leagues around some games (like the ones mentioned in the article). There are also events with "league" in the name that are not really leagues (like ESL Pro League). In any case, none of them are financially successful in the US.

morkalork•46m ago
The bit about getting the government to invest with a goal that isn't financial ROI reminds me of the Olympics during the cold war. All that investment to "prove" the dominance of one economic system or another.
LocalH•32m ago
The scourge of unfettered capitalism. Everything boils down to "how much money does it make"

Small-time capitalism is good. But beyond a certain size, it falls apart and can even become quasi-governmental. When is somebody going to blend the best part of all political isms to get closer to the best possible form of society

barbazoo•20m ago
Best for who though? There just is no one size that fits all. Personally I would be happy in a more equal socialistic society but I recognize that others prefer the individuality and excitement of playing the game of chance in our capitalist system.

What I’m looking for is perhaps more at a smaller level of local community, not “state” level.

megaloblasto•44m ago
Looks like they missed Major League Cricket (MLC) founded in 2023
walthamstow•40m ago
The popularity of the English Premier League in the US is a factor not considered anywhere in the piece.
itsdavesanders•15m ago
Probably because it’s not a “US league?”

I might consider F1 in that case as it has gained in popularity a lot, and technically it’s owned by a U.S. company, but I’d never think of it as a U.S. league.

petesergeant•35m ago
Is there any market in the world where rival leagues of the same sport compete in the same geographic location? Maybe there aren’t new leagues because Americans don’t care enough about new sports?

Further, it’s the teams, not the leagues that make money, which I didn’t pick up in a brief skim of the article. Why would any team want to join an rival league? League monopoly seems like the natural fit, and let the competition happen between teams.

munchler•31m ago
Both the NFL (football) and MLB (baseball) formed from competing leagues in the US.
petesergeant•25m ago
Right, but they did merge, and I’d argue it’s because it’s natural for a sports league to be a monopoly. Fans wanna see the best players and teams compete with each other.
fruitplants•35m ago
Indian Premier League (Cricket) is not a US league. Some reasons mentioned in the post apply to IPL. And IMO some don't (nerdy billionaires). There's even an acquired.fm episode on it. https://www.acquired.fm/episodes/indian-premier-league-crick...

"So successful in fact that it is the fastest growing major sports league in the world, growing 20x in value since 2008 to be worth more than $16 billion today."

munchler•34m ago
Can we please stop pretending that WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) is a sport? Clue: It’s got “entertainment” right there in the name.
LocalH•33m ago
Within kayfabe, WWE is a sport. Outside of kayfabe, it's not.

:)

cwillu•24m ago
Medical dramas are not medicine, courtroom dramas are not court, wrestling dramas are not wrestling.
bena•32m ago
All sports are entertainment. No one watches the Jets expecting them to win.
munchler•29m ago
I assume you’re being facetious, but just to be clear: WWE is scripted, while the Jets have a fair chance to win any given game.
amelius•22m ago
But you can place bets on WWE games:

https://www.sbo.net/wwe/

victorbjorklund•10m ago
yea, betting on the script. Like betting on the content of a new book coming out.
5555624•26m ago
> Fans only want to watch the very best players. Without TV money, new leagues can’t match salaries, and cannot attract top talent.

Is there enough "top talent" to fund a new league? Take American football: there are more players in high school, than college, because the game gets faster and better; the same goes from college to the NFL. The game changes, too; so. success in college doe not mean success in the NFL. There have been 88 Heisman Trophy winners; but, only 10 have made the NFL Hall of Fame. (The only two-time Heisman Trpohy winner is not one of those ten.)

Did (DO) the XFL and AAF have "top talent"? These were players who were not good to get drafted by the NFL. Sure, some players have from the XFL to NFL; but, that makes the XFL more like a minor league or developmental league -- a notch lower.

andrefuchs•18m ago
Indoor football (soccer) leagues like the Kings League and Baller League have significant potential to become major players.

They are reported to generate between 50 and 100 million in revenue per season already.

an0malous•16m ago
There has been, the esports leagues. The viewership on the LoL championship game had a larger viewership than then Super Bowl.
JohnFen•3m ago
He did mention them.

> The three leagues with even an argument for being not total failures are the NWSL, League of Legends Esports (LoL Esports), and LIV Golf. All have unique advantages over their counterparts, and yet none of them are profitable today or even on a very convincing path toward profitability.

freedomben•2m ago
Tfa directly addresses LoL.

> LoL Esports: loses hundreds of millions of dollars annually, exists solely as a marketing mechanism to get people to play the actual game

mozillamaxx•15m ago
The author omitted Major League Rugby
jleyank•2m ago
What significant college/HS level sport is not already producing people for a league-based game? Yeah, they can get women's alternatives, which lead to some exciting play, but I can't think of a sport that's not already covered.

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