I Want You to Understand Chicago

https://aphyr.com/posts/397-i-want-you-to-understand-chicago

211•tonyg•2h ago

Comments

don_neufeld•1h ago

I’m so glad that Kyle wrote this.

I’m so sad that he had to.

Pay attention to what’s going on and vote.

ryandrake•1h ago

The problem is how many people enthusiastically voted for this madness, lawlessness and cruelty, and are still cheering it on.

You can say "vote, vote, vote," and maybe it will work in 2026 or 2028, or 2030 or whenever, but the root problem is not going away: you are still surrounded by people all over the country who want this.

turnsout•1h ago

I don't know, man. That is definitely true, but they didn't win by a landslide. And a lot of their edge came from the MAGA Latinx vote. This ICE/CPB action is a total self-own. That Latinx vote is going to disappear, and we've already seen the results in the 2025 elections.

I think the right will turn on itself in 2026. We could even end up with three parties, only one of them able to obtain a majority (Democrats). There's a plausible version of the future where the Republican Party goes the way of the Whigs.

ryandrake•1h ago

> I think the right will turn on itself in 2026.

If they turn on themselves it will not be over immigration. This is the one issue where they are almost all in wild agreement. A massive, overwhelming majority of Republicans agree with these cruel treatment of immigrants[1].

They might disagree on the economy or tariffs or jobs or whatever, but there's no infighting here. They fully back this cruelty.

1: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/02/07/what-amer...

turnsout•1h ago

No, you're right—I don't think it will be over immigration. I think they'll lose in 2026 and tear themselves apart infighting about who's to blame.

techblueberry•1h ago

The biggest division right now seems to be support Israel. And if we up the attacks in Venezuela, I do think the America first folks will get louder in their divisions.

https://www.thefp.com/p/the-rights-existential-fight-over

WillEngler•1h ago

There are some who voted for Trump and do celebrate the cruelty on display in Chicago. But I also think many wanted to deport "the worst of the worst" and that is what they thought they were promised. And per the media many consume, that is what's happening. It's an open question on whether the real extent of the crackdown will break through the echo chamber, but from conversations I've had with people who consume Fox News, I really do think a lot of Trump voters will not be ok with the tactics as they are actually being carried out. For example, I just don't think that earnest religious conservatives I know would defend denying the Eucharist to people in the processing facility (https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/02/faith-leaders-again-...) and then banning prayer outside the facility altogether (https://blockclubchicago.org/2025/11/07/feds-tell-faith-lead...). When you lay out this (and the many events in Aphyr's post) to them clearly, they really don't like it.

toomuchtodo•1h ago

Margin of victory was ~2M votes, about how many voters 55+ die in a year. Hopefully enough voters have aged out or learned their lesson next time around (considering election results we've seen in the last week or so [1]). You're never going to convince unsavory voters to vote with empathy, the subject brain structure does not support it (anterior insular cortex, primarily), you can only hope they're aging out of the electorate at a reasonable pace (and not being replaced).

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." (Planck's Principle [2] applied to voting)

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45818505

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck%27s_principle

saulpw•1h ago

The replacement voters are currently teenagers. They haven't "learned their lesson", they aren't old enough to have experienced politics at all. They were 6 years old when Trump was elected the first time. This is their reality and we can't expect that the electorate gets more sensible because old people rotate out.

toomuchtodo•1h ago

https://www.economist.com/interactive/trump-approval-tracker

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-support-among-men-eroding-108...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-absolutely-craters...

Young women are also most liberal than ever, and who carried recent election wins. I expect this trend to continue.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/gallup-analysis-finds-yo...

https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men...

https://msmagazine.com/2025/11/03/2025-election-results/

ryandrake•1h ago

It's comforting that maybe this mentality is correcting itself one funeral at a time.

But what really makes me sad is how this mentality so quickly swept into the country to begin with. 30 years ago, the vast majority of Americans would be horrified at the thought of people being assaulted on the street in broad daylight, black-bagged, kidnapped and disappeared forever by masked, non-identifying thugs. Fast forward 30 years, and (chances are) my neighbors want this and are absolutely giddy at the thought of it happening here!

Regardless of who votes for what, how did my country turn into this?

toomuchtodo•1h ago

Tribalism, identity politics, low education and lack of respect for education and intellectualism, and late stage capitalism. A cautionary tale, for sure. People are angry, rightfully so, but at the wrong people. Thank Reagan (economics) and Gingrich (politics) for a lot of this we’re facing.

Deepfriedchokes is right; we need stronger, more robust systems to protect humans from other humans, because we cannot trust the human (broadly speaking).

deepfriedchokes•1h ago

We shouldn’t need to count on voters dying to avoid outcomes like this. Our institutions are broken if they can’t protect the public from a mentally ill public official on a power trip.

ryandrake•1h ago

The point is that we are not talking about protecting the public from a few mentally ill public officials. These officials didn't just appear out of the ether, they were voted for by tens of millions of voters who want this. Even if the officials go away, those voters are not.

queenkjuul•31m ago

Sadly GenX seems to be getting on board as quickly as the boomers are dying off

ssl-3•1h ago

We must always vote. Our voter turnout for elections in the US is approximately shit.

We must also do other things, too: Voting isn't the end-all, be-all solution to everything. (And that's OK; we can do more than one thing at a time.)

But the absolute necessity of actually-voting is a constant, and I'm equipped with a profound amount of intolerance towards any idea that may suggest otherwise.

alangibson•1h ago

Voting is what got us in to this. This is supported by a majority of the US. You do not live in the country you think you do.

daseiner1•1h ago

Yup immigration was arguably the concrete issue of the election and these were the campaign promises. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knew that this is what mass deportation would look like.

metabagel•1h ago

We already had mass deportation under Biden, and it wasn’t conducted in this manner.

HeinzStuckeIt•1h ago

> This is supported by a majority of the US.

The election was fairly close. The winning candidate got elected by a coalition of people with differing views on an number of individual items within his platform. That does not equate to certain approval by the majority of the American population of any of the things the linked article recounts.

All that said, as an American living abroad who votes left, the use of terms like “kidnapped” and “abducted” to describe immigration-enforcement actions seems really weird to me and my expat peers. There are quite a few democratic, developed countries high on freedom-ranking lists that widely deploy law enforcement to arrest and deport undocumented immigrants and visa overstayers. Sure, deplore lack of due process when actual citizens get caught in the net, but so much use of these loaded terms isn’t even about that, it’s criticizing actions against non-citizens.

ryandrake•1h ago

> The winning candidate got elected by a coalition of people with differing views on an number of individual items within his platform. That does not equate to certain approval by the majority of the American population of any of the things the linked article recounts.

There may be differing views on other topics among the party, but Republicans broadly support this vision of cruelty and these actions against immigrants[1] by huge margins. It's probably the one single vision they are united behind.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45859760

metalcrow•1h ago

Your citation doesn't support your claim

ryandrake•1h ago

- 74% of Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say the Trump administration is doing the right amount to deport immigrants who are in the U.S. illegally. Another 12% say it’s doing too little and 13% say it’s doing too much.

- Nearly nine-in-ten Republicans approve of sending additional U.S. troops to the border (88%) and increasing deportations (86%). More than six-in-ten strongly approve of these actions.

- 80% of Republicans approve of cutting federal funds to cities and states if they do not cooperate with deportations

- 72% of Republicans approve of suspending asylum applications, with 38% saying they strongly approve.

HeinzStuckeIt•1h ago

It looks like the difference in the popular vote was 2,284,967 votes towards R. Do all of those 2,284,967 voters demonstrably overlap with that 86% of the polled Republicans? If not, then claiming that a majority of Americans support every incident in the linked article based on the last election, lacks basis.

ryandrake•56m ago

I'm not saying anything about the majority of the American population. Just that Republicans broadly support these actions. I hope we never get to the point where a majority of the overall public support this.

metabagel•1h ago

ICE are wearing masks, refusing to identify themselves, abducting citizens and non-citizens alike. They are accusing citizens of assault and then releasing them without charging - a pretty good indication that they lied.

They are conducting warrantless searches. There is a case where they rammed the car of a U.S. citizen (clearly seen on video), promptly took her into custody, accused her of hitting them, and then released her without charging her.

They are profiling people based on race and ethnicity.

The abductions look like kidnappings. They don’t look like law enforcement actions.

HeinzStuckeIt•1h ago

In many countries, including some high on freedom rankings as I mentioned, certain police units are masked and may not have to identify themselves during stings, which after all rely on the element of surprise. Immigration-enforcement actions are commonly directed against people based on looks, and due process serves to ensure that if citizens are mistakenly rounded up, they are not further detained. Again, when I see Americans deploring ICE actions based on those things (and not the outright abuses), it’s just a very peculiar political position from an international perspective.

ryandrake•49m ago

In the USA, we have come to expect a certain level of formality, transparency, and adherence to due process when it comes to how law enforcement operates. Or, at least that's what we tell ourselves the standard is. Granted, we've been backsliding in this department for decades, which really started accelerating during the War On Terror. It's not new with this administration. But, we have strayed a long, long way away from the idealized "uniformed cop visibly walking the beat on the street."

The whole "masked plainclothes men jumping out of an unmarked van, dragging someone off the street into the van, and swooping away" thing is what the villains in the movies did, not the good guys.

queenkjuul•25m ago

These aren't stings. They're in body armor and masks patrolling the streets without badges.

queenkjuul•27m ago

Many of these people are documented permanent residents or US citizens being grabbed without warrants, without being read rights, without charges, and without an opportunity to present documentation.

That's kidnapping.

stavros•15m ago

> The election was fairly close.

Yeah but "the totalitarian Neonazis who wanted to deploy secret police were only a slight majority" is really faint praise.

HeinzStuckeIt•7m ago

No, my point was that in a very close election that depended on a party building coalitions between heterogenous groups of voters, the people in favor of any action taken by the elected government may be a minority of the population, not even a slight majority.

Moveable_Type•1h ago

can't access due to UK online safety act

pekim•1h ago

I'm in the UK too. So I read the article courtesy of archive.is.

https://archive.is/X33oQ

hexbin010•1h ago

Well, technically, it's likely because he has decided to block UK IPs (or similar).

A form of protest I assume, assuming he runs no business in the UK and no other reason to think the UK Gov has any interest in policing an .com blog run by someone who doesn't live there nor hosts the website there.

(I'm not against that form of protest per se, but let's be clear about who's doing the blocking)

davorak•17m ago

> A form of protest I assume,

Or to avoid the fines and/or to avoid integrating some age verification service.

Maybe symbolic since it unlikely the site would be prosecuted, even if they were in violation in some minor form. It is easy to be in violation to my understanding since it does not need to what is posted by the site owner as part of the blog but could be in the comments.

blindriver•1h ago

The thing I don't understand is why didn't people care when 50 people were getting shot every weekend for decades at a time?

alangibson•1h ago

Citation needed

blindriver•1h ago

If you don't understand how critically violent Chicago is, especially in the number of Black people shot and murdered every week, then you have no business being engaged in this topic. Chicago is one of the most violent cities in the US.

alangibson•1h ago

Well then you should have no problem proving what you are now only insisting on. This is HN, not Reddit. Where's the citation? Prove what you said or I have no reason to take you seriously.

blindriver•1h ago

https://data.cityofchicago.org/Public-Safety/2025-Year-to-Da...

1646 shooting victims in chicago over 40 weeks = 36 shooting victims per week. Although these are cases so there are probably multiple victims in many cases.

If you go back 10 years, there are around 34,000 cases of gunshot victims.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/58-shot-weekend-chicago-governor-r...

https://cwbchicago.com/2025/11/two-killed-21-wounded-in-hall...

tedivm•49m ago

So what you're saying is that the rate of violence has been dropping over the last decade? And that we should ignore fed violence (against brown, white, and black people)?

don_neufeld•24m ago

And how does this compare to other cities on a population adjusted basis?

“Chicago ranked 8th out of a bigger sample of 24 cities in terms of the homicide rate in both 2023 and 2024.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp8jl969pg7o.amp

ozim•1h ago

I am not from US but watched Married With Children - I guess that’s just the things are in Chicago.

cylinder714•1h ago

Go to YouTube and search for "chicago weekend violence".

alwa•1h ago

What does that have to do with federal officers conducting immigration raids against schoolteachers and random US-citizen paralegals? Do you suggest that those people are the ones shooting and murdering Black people every week?

blindriver•1h ago

People didn't care when it was Black people dying, getting shot, having their lives ruined.

But when it's some other ethnicity being targeted, then all of a sudden they are up in arms, even though the scale is orders of magnitude smaller.

This is racism by ignoring Black people.

zemo•25m ago

The problem is that your claim is just untrue in two major ways.

Chicago is ranked 22nd for murder and 92nd in the country in violent crime overall. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

The obsession with Chicago's murder rate and not the murder rate of cities like St Louis, Cleveland, Cincinatti, Indianapolis, or Little Rock is a political constructon of a right wing apparatus still hell-bent on punishing Chicago for having produced Obama.

That murder rate is gang related and extremely localized, and to boot, people in Chicago DO care about it; here are the top results for searching for "Chicago groups against gang violence" in duckduckgo:

https://thetriibe.com/2024/07/13-black-led-organizations-tha...

https://www.buildchicago.org/our-programs/intervention-and-c...

https://togetherchicago.com/violence-reduction/

https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/sites/community-safety/home/...

https://www.chicagocred.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/2024-...

It is just broadly untrue that nobody cares about it. This point is extremely easy to debunk if you have any desire to debunk it, but you obviously have no interest in that.

And besides, there's an ocean of a difference between interpersonal gang on gang violence and the government sending secret police to put people into concentration camps and deport them to countries where they have no affiliation based on racial profiling.

numbsafari•1h ago

What makes you think they didn’t? What makes you think this is the solution to that problem?

jghn•1h ago

I'd like to know what makes them think this actually happened in the first place

lurk2•1h ago

50 every weekend is an exaggeration, but more people were murdered in Chicago from 2001 to 2021 than American soldiers died during the Global War on Terror (6,593 died in Iraq and Afghanistan vs. 11,561 in Chicago).

This is something of a red herring though as somewhere around 75% of those murders are black-on-black, with only a minority involving Latinos. Chicago primarily attracts attention not because of its murder rate (#22 in the country vs. Detroit at #5), but instead due to the size of its population and the prevalence of violent music that has come out of the region.

blindriver•1h ago

My point is everyone has been silent about Chicago's violence for decades, and only now they seem to care because it's not Black people being targeted. It's straight up racism to not care about Black people's welfare but care only when it's other people being endangered.

daseiner1•1h ago

citizens shooting other citizens is radically different than the federal government lighting legal protections on fire and then pissing on the ashes.

wholly disingenuous to compare the two.

but yours is the standard misdirect on anything "Chicago" so I'm confident being disingenuous was intentional.

lurk2•58m ago

What legal protections are being infringed upon?

galangalalgol•27m ago

The 4th amendment it would seem? Wrongful arrest, unlawful search and seizure, aggravated assault with a lethal weapon...

convolvatron•1h ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Chica...

you're just throwing shit at the wall

lurk2•58m ago

These demonstrations were nominally dedicated to protesting police brutality, not crime, and the policies they advocated for generally had an adverse impact on the crime rate in subsequent years.

amazingman•10m ago

You're making a category error with this comparison. I'm wondering why the error isn't obvious to you.

numbsafari•8m ago

Have they been silent, or have you been deaf?

ssl-3•1h ago

I, for one, would also like to talk about the price of tea in China. I don't understand why nobody cares about this.

mrkeen•4m ago

Getting shot? I think you might have stumbled onto the question of gun control. I wonder if that's ever been a topic of discussion.

Or if it's about black-on-black crime, maybe there's something to look into with affirmative action?

Cops against blacks? ACAB or kneeling at football games ringing any bells?

Sarcasm aside, one difference here is that the government is trashing your neighbourhood on your dime. You have to listen to republicans say there's no money for healthcare while they spend money on deploying troops to shoot priests with pepper bullets and try to deport citizens.

pizlonator•1h ago

This is really sad to read!

Can folks who live in Chicago confirm/deny/comment on the extent to which this article gets it right?

(I have no reason to believe that it's an exaggeration, but I sincerely hope that it is.)

miltonlost•1h ago

Did you look at the links he posted? Have you seen the news reports he linked to? This is all actually happening right now. Please, read all he linked to an watched the videos of ICE kidnapping people violently.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/immigration/2025/11/05/daycare-...

turnsout•1h ago

It's not an exaggeration. People have been kidnapped by these armed masked idiots within two blocks of my house twice, and those are just the closest cases I know about. Go check out the /r/Illinois subreddit [0] to see what's happening.

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/illinois/

turnsout•1h ago

And of course now the parent post is "flagged." Thank you, Libertarian overlords, from protecting the tech community from this dangerous content.

SlightlyLeftPad•1h ago

I gotchu fam, I’m snapping Full page screenshots of all the commentary here.

vkou•45m ago

It would not be good to allow malcontents to spread disharmony.

SlightlyLeftPad•23m ago

<our benefactors have entered the chat>

tedivm•23m ago

They unflagged it, but the pause in upvotes means it dropped off the front page and out of people's minds.

ryandrake•2m ago

Mission accomplished for the flaggers. I don't know why HN can't/won't fix this obvious abuse mechanism.

tedivm•1h ago

I live in Chicago, and this article doesn't even scratch the surface of how bad it is. My wife went to the beach yesterday for 10 minutes to try and rest from the chaos and a fucking black hawk helicopter buzzed by her. They literally fly over my house daily.

People, US citizens included, are literally being abducted. People have been shot and killed by masked agents. People have had their children abandoned on the side of the road after being kidnapped. Just today they raided Little Village with hundreds of masked troops. I'm in a dozen signal groups to get alerted about where things are.

What scares me the most is how few people seem to actually know what is happening here. I talk to people outside of Chicago, and watch the news, and I don't see or hear about anything that's going on here. I tell them what's happening and they are shocked.

It is impossible to convey what is happening here, how scared we all are for this country, and how much things seem to escalate every single day that this goes on.

Edit: This post has been flagged and hidden, just demonstrating how much this country wants to pretend this isn't happening. It's unflagged now, but the fact that anyone would want to hide what's happening here shows how bad things are for all of us.

SlightlyLeftPad•1h ago

The media has an existential threat of having their broadcast licenses revoked so yeah that probably has a lot to do with why there’s no coverage.

If the media had balls, they’d broadcast anyway, license or not.

tedivm•52m ago

There's a lot of good independent media looking at this. Some good sources:

https://bsky.app/profile/unraveledpress.com

https://bsky.app/profile/djbyrnes1.bsky.social

https://bsky.app/profile/thetriibe.com

https://bsky.app/profile/prisonculture.bsky.social

AstroBen•1h ago

I'm an immigrant in Chicago (fortunately not one of the racial groups they're targeting) and I follow it pretty closely - yeah it's all really happening. I saw kids get taken away in front of where I live and others just a few streets down

The abuse of power there is ridiculous

queenkjuul•33m ago

Not at all exaggerated. The agents are lying about anything and everything even when there's evidence. One of them threw tear gas out of the window of their SUV because they were pissed to be stuck in traffic. They'll hit and run parked cars and flee the scene.

giraffe_lady•31m ago

Every bit of it is true and there's more that he doesn't mention, probably because it's not as well documented yet.

kasey_junk•26m ago

My kids school has started doing drills with the students in what to do when ice shows up. Like they do for tornadoes. They need to because ICE is using schools as raid locations every day.

tr4ce•7m ago

It is really bad. A glimmer of hope is a governor with a spine.

https://www.newyorker.com/podcast/the-new-yorker-radio-hour/...

carterschonwald•1h ago

This shit is so fucked up. And at a certain level I’m disappointed that we are still trying to fix it peaceably when every day of delay, there is irreparable harm to physical wellness, mental health and rights as citizens or residents. Also science in America is fucked for the next decade.

galangalalgol•31m ago

Violent resolution of the situation would almost certainly result in a society with even fewer freedoms. That is the historical lesson. Violent resistance to authoritarian takeovers gives them an air of legitimacy they need. That is the whole point of chicago and the attempt in Portland. They want violent resistance to justify crack downs. Instead they look like storm troopers. I am in awe of the restraint of those living in Chicago. Ice hasn't done half as much in Texas and they are getting ambushed with assault rifles. That doesn't work with their narrative of lawless blue states though. The ability of Chicagoans to resist peacefully, endure, and document these events may well be what gives the US another chance at being a democracy.

g-b-r•22m ago

Unfortunately, violent reactions is what Trump would love, because it would allow a much bigger, probably definitive, escalation

I think Americans should first do everything possible to bring to sanity the supporters of Trump

thechao•1h ago

A large part of this lawlessness is rooted in nonnormative behavior. But! there are basic protections we could have right now if we demanded them. First and foremost: the Bivens Act; specifically, the right to bring suit in State court against Federal agents. Presidential pardons can't help these thugs in State persons.

tedivm•1h ago

Until the supreme court overturns that.

tanjtanjtanj•55m ago

They already did, more or less.

The supreme court ruled that unless your case is virtually a carbon-copy of an existing Bivens case then it doesn't count. The current supreme court does not respect precedent in any meaningful way.

Marshferm•1h ago

How can this be flagged? It’s documentary.

queenkjuul•37m ago

This should not be flagged. This is the truth of what's happening here right now.

fancyfredbot•25m ago

https://archive.is/X33oQ for those in the UK.

paganel•14m ago

This [1] is civil-war-inducing stuff, that's not "police", that's an army that attacks its own country's citizens. Crazy stuff, didn't think I'd get to see this happening in the States.

[1] https://x.com/LAURA_N_ROD/status/1985412485185188067

hypeatei•8m ago

A news station producer was arrested by ICE and the agents peeled away ripping off someone's bumper[0][1] just for her to be released later without charges.

0: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/14/chicago-ice-...

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLGI2hMaz5Q

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I Want You to Understand Chicago

Comments

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