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Checkout.com hacked, refuses ransom payment, donates to security labs

https://www.checkout.com/blog/protecting-our-merchants-standing-up-to-extortion
52•StrangeSound•1h ago

Comments

junaru•48m ago
> We will be donating the ransom amount to Carnegie Mellon University and the University of Oxford Cyber Security Center (OXCIS) to support their research in the fight against cybercrime.

Can this be tax deducted? Because this it sounds like gaslighting to change the narrative.

worthless-trash•44m ago
I believe you may be misusing the term gaslighting.
junaru•25m ago
To me this looks like getting hacked, donating to some public non-profit, deduct it via taxes (essentially spending nothing) and spin it online as a positive.
laylower•16m ago
Even if it were, it'd be much more than anything others that got hacked have been doing..
ritzaco•15m ago
I've met a few people who genuinely believe that 'tax deductible' equates to 'essentially spending nothing' or somehow equate that the amount you donate would be an amount you would otherwise give to the Government in taxes so from your perspective it doesn't change anything.

This is definitely not the case. If you make $100 profit and you would have had to pay 20% corporate tax, then you pay $20 in taxes, you'd be left with $80 to buy chocolate or whatever you want.

If you donate $20 and deduct it from your profit, then your profit is now calculated at $80. So you pay $16 in taxes. So you saved $4 but spent $20, so you're $16 dollars down and now you only have $64 for chocolate, so not 'essentially nothing'.

retsibsi•11m ago
> deduct it via taxes (essentially spending nothing)

Unless you're positing some very specific, unusual situation, this isn't how tax deductibility works. The dollar amount of a tax deductible donation is subtracted from your taxable income, not from your tax bill. So you're getting a discount on the donation equal to your marginal tax rate.

Cyclone_•40m ago
It's not gaslighting. They were transparent enough to own their mistake. The donation isn't really the main story.
throwaway2037•38m ago
I love this part (no trolling from me):

    > We are sorry. We regret that this incident has caused worry for our partners and people. We have begun the process to identify and contact those impacted and are working closely with law enforcement and the relevant regulators. We are fully committed to maintaining your trust.
I know there will by a bunch of cynics who say that an LLM or a PR crisis team wrote this post... but if they did, hats off. It is powerful and moving. This guys really falls on his sword / takes it on the chin.
M4v3R•37m ago
Words are cheap, but "We are sorry." is a surprisingly rare thing for a company to say (they will usually sugarcoat it, shift blame, add qualifiers, use weasel words, etc.), so it's refreshing to hear that.
sunaookami•24m ago
This is a classic example of a fake apology: "We regret that this incident has caused worry for our partners and people" they are not really "sorry" that data was stolen but only "regret" that their partners are worried. No word on how they will prevent this in the future and how it even happened. Instead it gets downplayed ("legacy third-party","less than 25% were affected" (which is a huge number), no word on what data exactly).
koliber•7m ago
How would the apology need to be worded so that it does not get interpreted as a fake apology?

In terms of "downplaying" it seems like they are pretty concrete in sharing the blast radius. If less than 25% of users were affected, how else should they phrase this? They do say that this was data used for onboarding merchants that was on a system that was used in the past and is no longer used.

I am as annoyed by companies sugar coating responses, but here the response sounds refreshingly concrete and more genuine than most.

actionfromafar•3m ago
"Up to 25% of users were affected." "As many as 25% of users were affected."

"A quarter of user accounters were affected. We have calculated that to be 7% of our customers."

sigmoid10•32m ago
I'll never not think of that South Park scene where they mocked BP's "We're so sorry" statement whenever I see one of those. I don't care if you're sorry or if you realize how much you betrayed your customers. Tell me how you investigated the root causes of the incident and how the results will prevent this scenario from ever happening again. Like, how many other deprecated third party systems were identified handling a significant portion of your customer data after this hack? Who declined to allocate the necessary budget to keep systems updated? That's the only way I will even consider giving some trust back. If you really want to apologise, start handing out cash or whatever to the people you betrayed. But mere words like these are absolutely meaningless in today's world. People are right to dismiss them.
YetAnotherNick•10m ago
Right. Transparency doesn't mean telling about the attack that already happened. It means telling us about their issues and ways this could happen again. And they didn't even mention the investment amount for the security labs.
jacquesm•2m ago
I wouldn't be so quick. Everybody gets hacked, sooner or later. Whether they'll own up to it or not is what makes the difference and I've seen far, far worse than this response by Checkout.com, it seems to be one of the better responses to such an event that I've seen to date.

> Like, how many other deprecated third party systems were identified handling a significant portion of your customer data after this hack?

The problem with that is that you'll never know. Because you'd have to audit each and every service provider and I think only Ebay does that. And they're not exactly a paragon of virtue either.

> Who declined to allocate the necessary budget to keep systems updated?

See: prevention paradox. Until this sinks in it will happen over and over again.

> But mere words like these are absolutely meaningless in today's world. People are right to dismiss them.

Again, yes, but: they are at least attempting to use the right words. Now they need to follow them up with the right actions.

lexlambda•38m ago
The donation is more or less virtue signaling rather than actual insight.

The problem can not be helped by research research against cybercrime. Proper practices for protections are well established and known, they just need to be implemented.

The amount donated should've rather be invested into better protections / hiring a person responsible in the company.

(Context: The hack happened on a not properly decomissioned legacy system.)

varispeed•27m ago
There is not much to research. If companies want security, they should pay for security.
walletdrainer•9m ago
It is virtue signaling, especially considering the fact that doing the hard to swallow thing of paying the ransom would probably be the best outcome from a customer perspective.

Yes there are negative externalities in funding ransomware operations, not paying is still much more likely to hurt your customers than paying.

satisfice•8m ago
What is the problem with virtue signaling? By all means signal virtue! Perhaps you are concerned by cheap virtue signals, which have little significance.

The point here is that this is an expensive virtue signal. Although, it would be more effective if we knew how expensive it was.

pm2222•32m ago
Could this be aws s3?
prodigycorp•22m ago
If i was a customer id be pissed off, but this is as good as a response you can have to an incident like this.

- timely response

- initial disclosure by company and not third party

- actual expression of shame and remorse

- a decent explanation of target/scope

i could imagine being cyclical about the statement, but look at other companies who have gotten breached in the past. very few of them do well on all points

walletdrainer•12m ago
> as good as a response you can have to an incident like this.

From customer perspective “in an effort to reduce the likelihood of this data becoming widely available, we’ve paid the ransom” is probably better, even if some people will not like it.

Also to really be transparent it’d be good to post a detailed postmortem along with audit results detailing other problems they (most likely) discovered.

croemer•8m ago
Depends. Not paying ransom decreases the likelihood of being attacked in the future.
walletdrainer•4m ago
Probably not that significantly, these are primarily crimes of opportunity. An attacker isn’t likely to do much research on the company until they already have access, and that point they might as well proceed (especially since getting hit a second time would be doubly awkward for the company, presumably dramatically increasing the chances of payment)

And selling the data from companies like Checkout.com is generally still worth a decent amount, even if nowhere close to the bigger ransom payments.

dmoreno•11m ago
When they say "The episode occurred when threat actors gained access to this third party legacy system which was not decommissioned properly. " for me it sounds like a not properly wiped disk that got into the the bad guys hands. It would be interesting to know more to be prepared for proper decommissioning of hardware.
actionfromafar•1m ago
Or a cloud server which was never turned off.

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