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Over-reliance on English hinders cognitive science

https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/fulltext/S1364-6613(22)00236-4
20•DrierCycle•2h ago

Comments

amarant•55m ago
Anecdotally, I think they're on to something! I've lived abroad enough to start thinking in a non-native language, I noticed that my thinking processes were different, and I would interpret even familiar situations differently.

Best I can describe it is that I gained a new perspective.

lukasb•54m ago
"Critically, the language one speaks or signs can have downstream effects on ostensibly nonlinguistic cognitive domains, ranging from memory, to social cognition, perception, decision-making, and more."

Can they really distinguish between the impact of language on these domains rather than culture? It could be the language you speak, or it could be that you're surrounded exclusively by other people that operate this way.

kayodelycaon•44m ago
French, Spanish, and Portuguese are spoken across multiple cultures. So there should be enough data to test the theory.

French is a second language for many countries. So that may provide data as well.

djtango•39m ago
I mean I'm not really qualified or rigourous enough to prove this but if you have learned chinese and english it should be pretty damn obvious that it is linguistic. But in any case, human language and culture are intractable if you start trying to speak idiomatically.

Sure maybe you could isolate a bunch of scholars and give them a specification of Chinese and ask them to go at it, which is maybe what we do with Latin and Greek.

I would struggle to see how someone could earnestly argue the opposite, that language doesn't shape thought, when Chinese doesn't use conjugation, has looser notions of tense, has no direct/indirect article, uses glyphs instead of an alphabet, can be read top to bottom, right to left, left to right and doesn't use spaces to delimit words. That's even before we talk about tones or the highly monosyllabic nature of the language alters things like memorisation. (ever notice how Chinese people are often good at memorising numbers?)

mwigdahl•50m ago
Wasn’t Sapir-Whorf pretty much debunked? Is there a difference in what is being claimed here or is it resurrecting it under a different name?
dragonwriter•43m ago
This seems like the (broadly accepted, AFAIK) weak form of Sapir-Whorf (language has impacts on cognition) but not the (generally viewed as debunked) strong form (language places strict limits on the bounds of possible thought).
Mathnerd314•38m ago
To summarize the Wikipedia article on linguistic relativity, the "strong" hypothesis that language determines thought has been debunked. But there are many things that a language influences. To use a computer analogy, all mainstream programming languages are Turing complete, so you can express any computation in them. In this sense the language does not determine what programs you can write. But in practice, as any computer person will tell you, different languages are good at different things. And that is kind of this paper, they cite a lot of examples where English has poor vocabulary or odd quirks, and show by comparison to other languages that this measurably affects conclusions about certain cognitive abilities. The issue they're complaining about is like if you benchmarked Python programs and tried to draw conclusions about the speed limits of computing, but never tried C++ or assembly.
BenFranklin100•27m ago
Its ridiculous to compare human language to a programming language, even by analogy. They are entirely different domains.
Mathnerd314•11m ago
Tell it to the papers: https://www.cs.drexel.edu/~csg63/publications/onward24/onwar... https://arxiv.org/pdf/1808.03916 As vague analogies go, much more ridiculous and vague things have been published and peer reviewed and even gotten significant citations. Like ecological niches and invasive species, DNA as genetic blueprints, selfish genes, ... About all that can be said about these is that they are closer to the truth than what came before, and that if you actually learn the field then you can appreciate how they kind of get it right.
pksebben•4m ago
There's enough similarity there for an analogy, like the above posted.

Both are abstractions that use symbolic representation

Both are designed for human understanding

Both have quirks that make them better or worse at certain kinds of abstraction

comparison != analogy.

whynotmaybe•49m ago
> These induced biases are not confined to the visual modality; in auditory tests, speakers of left-to-right systems conceptualize time as flowing in that direction too.

Any RTL native can confirm that they visualize time as flowing from right to left? Because this puzzles me a lot!

chrisweekly•22m ago
For me it's neither. Time seems to flow from back to front, as if I'm seated in a chair moving backwards; I can see the past as it recedes (moving away in the direction I'm facing), and can't see the future (I'd need eyes in the back of my head).
marc_abonce•38m ago
Intuitively, I agree with the thesis. But the example for Spanish confuses me. One of the illustrations says:

"Absence of negatively biased mental verbs in English slows down the development of Theory of Mind. Children acquiring Spanish (which has verbs indicating false belief) have better performance in false-belief tasks."

But as a Spanish speaker I don't know what verbs is this referring to. On top of my head I can only think of the word "disbelieve" which doesn't have an exact, single word translation, but that's the opposite of what the quote seems to imply. Other verbs like deceive, doubt, misunderstand or imagine do have matching translations in both languages. What am I missing here?

canjobear•20m ago
They gave the example of the verb yiwei in Mandarin. If you say “ta yiwei X” it means “s/he thinks X” with a strong connotation that X is in fact false. The Spanish equivalent is supposed to be the verb creerse [1], like if you say “Juan se cree que lo van a ascender” it means “Juan thinks that they are going to promote him” but with a strong connotation that he won’t in fact be promoted. English doesn’t really have a verb for “think” with the connotation that the belief is false. The claim (for what it’s worth, I am skeptical) is that English speakers are slower to learn the concept that someone can have a false belief, because English lacks such a verb.

[1] according to https://ojs.ub.uni-konstanz.de/sub/index.php/sub/article/vie... for example. I don’t know enough Spanish to say if the verb really works this way. Verbs like this are called “contrafactive”

arjie•18m ago
Asking which-eth is hard in English but easy in Tamil. I’m going to tell everyone that this is why list.indexOf is slow.
whilenot-dev•8m ago
> English doesn’t really have a verb for “think” with the connotation that the belief is false.

How does yiwei/creerse differ from "Juan doubts that they are going to promote him"?

jacquesm•4m ago
Quite a bit, actually. It shows that Juan is aware of it, whereas in the Spanish equivalent he may actually believe it, even though it still is false. In a way you are very much illustrating the GP's point. And if I got it wrong then I am doing the same :)
sam_lowry_•4m ago
Hah, now we have anecdotal evidence.

Juan does not doubt, the speaker does.

Xenograph•1m ago
In "yiwei"/"creerse" case, Juan believes that they are going to promote him (but his belief is not very well calibrated and is likely false). yiwei/creerse asserts something about the truth value of the belief, in addition to what the belief is.

In the "doubts" case, Juan believes that they are not going to promote him. There is no assertion regarding the truth value of that belief.

evanjrowley•5m ago
I, for one, welcome our new Lojban-speaking overlords.

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