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10•marvinborner•42m ago•1 comments
Open in hackernews

My mum was a 17-year-old free spirit so she was locked up and put in a coma

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr43vx0rrwvo
78•binning•2h ago

Comments

3rodents•1h ago
A familiar story even today in the U.S:

https://time.com/6997172/teen-torture-max-abuse-documentary/

“They are often a last resort for parents struggling with children with behavioral problems, suicidal thoughts, and substance abuse issues. Depending on the state, these rehab centers—a multi-billion-dollar industry—have few regulations, and there are no overarching federal standards governing them. Many are faith-based facilities designed to convert teens into born-again Christians and are therefore exempt from regulation in some states.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn-About_Ranch

https://helpingsurvivors.org/troubled-teen-programs/turn-abo...

mothballed•1h ago
Yesterday a popular post here advocated that your kids finding porn means you are guilty of 'neglect.' That's a serious criminal charge and accusation. People will take drastic steps to avoid prison.

Natural result of that is catch-22, parent can't actually stop teenage kids from such activity except through what amounts to torture. As always either way, the parent is damned.

Aeolun•1h ago
Damn, my whole country must be guilty of neglect then!
mothballed•50m ago
Lol this is the USA. I've been interrogated when a stranger drove past my rather remote property, in the middle of nowhere, and saw that my child was walking about 50 feet "by herself" on her own fucking property(I was actually watching her, just from further away, so I was able to intervene before they called CPS).

Welcome to America where you must watch the kid every second until they turn 18, except at the moment they turn 18 they must be booted from the house to figure everything out all at once with nothing more than a minimum wage job, a gun, and rents that reach the stratosphere.

Duwensatzaj•3m ago
Free Range Kids organization has been fighting against this, and a number of states have passed laws around it.
twodave•1h ago
Sounds like either someone with very young kids or else someone with a dismissive/naive parenting style. For kids born since the mid-80s “hiding the porn” has been a lot harder than locking magazines in a closet. It’s not a matter of if, but when. And however you feel about porn, it’s infinitely more important to help your kids feel safe talking to you about it than to try and prevent them ever seeing it. Kids who don’t feel safe or tolerated will lie almost 100% of the time, at which point you can no longer help them. I say this as someone whose parents would rather have believed I wasn’t watching porn and therefore didn’t make the effort to normalize talking about sex at all. My wife and I do limit our kids’ access to the Internet quite a bit, but we aren’t naive to the fact that they’ll all see something at some point either.
mothballed•36m ago
>Sounds like either someone with very young kids or else someone with a dismissive/naive parenting style.

Increasingly this is what the tyranny of the majority is in the western world. People who don't have kids, or only limited experience with kids, declaring that parents are neglecting or abusing their children because they don't behave the way the hypothetical ideologically pure parent would. Almost every single one of them has a cell-phone and the second they see something they disapprove of they can call CPS at the drop of a hat and make your life a living hell, even if you are 'innocent' of even whatever BS they made up.

As always, it's just a smug attempt at moral superiority. They want the intoxicating power rush from threatening and imposing on parents, with none of the responsibility, and the state is all too happy to provide it to them. Just punish and then rest soundly knowing you have no kids of your own for which you could be prosecuted.

plqbfbv•58m ago
If anybody wants to read a comic with the perspective of someone that went through one of these places and spent the years after fighting against them, I stumbled upon this one a few years ago: https://elan.school/

I am not in any way affiliated with the author, it's just one of the few books with real content that I've read in a long time.

zoklet-enjoyer•46m ago
Great comic and there's a documentary about that place. Very messed up that's it's a whole child abuse industry.
rayiner•51m ago
Meanwhile, we have a crisis in the U.S. of people sleeping and dying in the streets because we shut down all the mental hospitals and involuntary commitment. Every system will have some percentage of adverse outcomes. Approaching the issue emotionally instead of dispassionately and with a view towards typical outcomes is an anti-social and dangerous approach.
stuckinhell•32m ago
She threw molotov cockatails I don't think it's similar at all.

she was lucky she wasn't imprisoned or executed

maxldn•23m ago
Why do you keep saying she wasn’t imprisoned? She was imprisoned in a convent and then in a mental institution.

Edit: clarification

tiahura•1h ago
… throw Molotov cocktails …

Just an ordinary free-spirited girl who unfathomably got put into a reform school. The BBC certainly has a point of view it wants to advance.

jrjeksjd8d•1h ago
She was a child who resisted the fascist Franco regime and was subjected to torture. Is that better for you?
delichon•1h ago
I can only hope I would have done the same in Franco's dictatorship. But I'd have expected prison rather than a convent.
mothballed•1h ago
Parents don't want their kids executed or sentenced to life in prison because they ended up burning people to death. And there is no way to ensure arson only burns fascists. They were probably desperately looking for a way to save her from that.

Can't say I'd have done the same choice, but it makes it more understandable.

graemep•1h ago
Its not that simple. I do not know about Franco's Spain, but violent rebellion does not usually make things better. Most violent revolutions end up replacing one dictatorship with another.
Aeolun•1h ago
> Most violent revolutions end up replacing one dictatorship with another.

Don’t those new violent dictators also tend to be more aligned with the people revolting?

Anyway, it kinda makes sense to me that the people advocating for change through violent means don’t suddenly stop being violent when they get to power.

impossiblefork•52m ago
Even when it's gone really badly, like the Russian revolution, the revolution was a huge improvement.

80% illiteracy. I think revolutions almost always go well because you usually have to be really terrible to cause one to happen.

mothballed•30m ago
I would not characterize the Russian revolution as 'better.'

Under the czar successful farming resulted in high taxes.

Under the communists, successful farming made you a kulak, you died / starved to death, and then everyone else did too.

HeinzStuckeIt•11m ago
The Russian Revolution you are probably thinking of is the October Revolution of the Bolsheviks. But the tsar had already been overthrown by the February Revolution earlier that year, and some of the initial steps towards improving Russian literacy like the drafting of an orthography reform were already accomplished under that regime. Russia may well have seen major strides regardless, and the Bolsheviks are widely seen as one of those revolutions that did more harm than good.
AllegedAlec•1h ago
Yeah I don't think anyone thinks this was a good program, but saying someone performing acts of terrorism is just 'a free spirit' is a bit... BBC of them.
BirAdam•1h ago
Perhaps the modern world has softened the term fascist dictator by using it for regimes to which it only partially applies.

The generalissimo used forced labor not unlike the DPRK, made widespread use of concentration camps, and was quite fond of executing dissidents. All religions other than Catholicism were outlawed and all political parties were outlawed.

Why would opposition to a murderous dictator be a bad thing? It isn’t as though the protestors/rioters/rebels were the ones escalating the situation. The government was already killing people. This could easily be viewed as justified violent opposition in the pursuit of stopping more murder.

DFHippie•1h ago
Note, the article doesn't say that she threw molotov cocktails. She was put into induced comas, tied to a bed, kept in social isolation, etc. because she didn't want to live under her parents' control.
Aeolun•1h ago
Isn’t that relatively normal? They’re really easy to make.

The ‘throw molotov cocktails’ are mentioned in the same sentence as ‘hand out leaflets’, which makes me feel the surrounding people were generally not panicking about the fire. Hard to say without reading the book though.

NooneAtAll3•52m ago
no

throwing molotov cocktails is in NO way "normal"

layer8•45m ago
Under a dictatorship it ought to be.
usrnm•26m ago
"Killing people I don't like is ok" is not a very nice line of thinking
hitarpetar•19m ago
> Killing people I don't like is ok

it's so sad that the allies killed so many Axis soldiers in WW2 right? wasn't very nice :(

aaomidi•18m ago
I hope you never experience living in a fascist society.
TylerE•17m ago
A fascist dictatorship is not a very nice goverment.
lkey•4m ago
Wow, didn't know that teenager's protesting Franco is actually worse and has a higher body count than... checks notes... the Franco Regime.

Any other insights you'd like to add?

squarefoot•18m ago
Yes, not normal in a normal context. However if you're fighting against a dictatorship it fully qualifies as heroism. When dictatorship comes to your country (madness is growing everywhere so be prepared) you'll be grateful for anyone fighting against it, or one day you'll be the one writing "... then one day they came for me, but there was no one left to fight for me".
noelwelsh•57m ago
Do you think "My mum was a 17-year-old free spirit - so she was locked up and put in a coma" could perhaps be the words of the person they interviewed? Could this perhaps by why it is written in the first-person? Where in the article does the BBC claim she was an "ordinary free-spirited girl"?

What do you believe the purpose of this article is? Do you think it is advancing a policy agenda, in which case which policies is it advocating for? Or is it perhaps just documenting what happened and the impressions of those effected by what happened?

ToValueFunfetti•33m ago
The BBC has editorial control over their headlines. The wording in the article is unclear and it may not be a mischaracterization. But, assuming that it is, 'someone lied to us and so we put it into our headline' is not a defense that turns bad journalism into good.
Latty•7m ago
It's an obvious quote, unless you think people are going to misunderstand and think that the BBC as a publication is talking about it's mother somehow. Quotes are generally well understood to be the view of the person giving it, not the publication.
wkjagt•52m ago
I spent some time in Northern Ireland in 2001 (Derry mostly). At one point there was a sudden fire in the back yard of the youth hostel I was staying at. When I mentioned it, the owner of the youth hostel said "it's just a Molotov cocktail".
crazygringo•42m ago
I think there are points on both sides.

I think you're right that the BBC is being irresponsible in putting "my mum was a 17-year-old free spirit" in the headline -- even though it's a quote, it does imply a level of BBC editorial agreement with the characterization. It makes her sound like she was just an innocent hippie or something.

On the other hand, this wasn't vandalism for vandalism's sake. It was political protest against a dictatorship. It's not like she was engaging in criminal acts for the fun of it or for personal gain, so the snippet you choose is similarly misleading without the context of why.

rayiner•41m ago
Just the continued normalization of antisocial people as somehow being the victims of society instead of being the ones perpetuating harm on society.
DonHopkins•30m ago
Because in her position you would have licked Francisco Franco's boots instead?
GeoAtreides•21m ago
Couple of weeks ago I saw, on this site, a Gaddafi-regime tankie. Chinese tankies I see all the times (Uyghurs genocide deniers too!). Guess I can add a francoist tankie to the list.
lkey•8m ago
A) She was still a child. Her parents had full control over her.

B) She was imprisoned, and tortured, as the article discusses.

C) What POV would you prefer?

D) This was Franco's Spain, what do you imagine yourself doing at a time like that?

rayiner•53m ago
Similar stories were used to shut down mental hospitals in the U.S. and look what happened after that.
stuckinhell•32m ago
"Soon, Mariona joined her new friends on "raids": a few of them would block off a street, throw Molotov cocktails, hand out leaflets, and when the police turned up, scatter in every direction."

okay she threw molotov cocktails, she was lucky she wasn't imprisoned.

hitarpetar•21m ago
it's Francoist Spain. people were imprisoned for much less (hence the molotovs)
lkey•11m ago
A) She was still a child. B) She was imprisoned, repeatedly, and tortured, as the article discusses. C) Is it your opinion that everyone was "lucky" to live in 1968 Spain under Franco. Or just her?
hexbin010•22m ago
Any discussion about Franco always attracts cool heads and reasoned discussion

/s

GeoAtreides•16m ago
what is this thread

people supporting a totalitarian fascist regime, blaming the victim...

"Shouldn't fight against the regime, violence is bad mmmkay"... "she threw molotov cocktails, she deserved it"...

what is happening, i feel like i'm taking crazy pills