What’s Howard University and what makes it reputable enough to mention here, presumably as some sort of appeal to authority? And this is from a Heritage Foundation event, which is clearly a right biased organization.
Deloitte is mentioned in this article but let’s not forget, all of big tech also hire H1Bs and pay them the same as others for equal seniority. These companies don’t have different process or pay scales for immigrants. They also care a lot about hiring the best talent. They know better than others and are showing it by spending their money on H1Bs, rather than just chatting about it. It’s ridiculous to think the world’s best companies are just wasting money on “average grade labor”.
I think a lot of the casual generalizations about H1Bs or other immigrants are either based on lower quality talent at consulting companies or a result of racism (especially against Indians) or a desire for a weird “woke right” version of DEI where all of a sudden, those defending meritocracy want to now be shielded from competition. That’s the harsh reality the new “America First, America Only” (AFAO) right won’t admit.
swatcoder•2mo ago
> It’s ridiculous to think the world’s best companies are just wasting money on “average grade labor”.
Hah!
By now, most people have worked with quite poor-to-mediocre colleague who have either:
* grinded Leetcode and wormed through the pipeline to an overpaid gig at FAANG or a Big Four firm, or
* came into their current position with years of FAANG/BigFour on their resume
Everybody beyond theor first few starry eyed years in the industry knows better than that.
Those companies don't have time and resources to develop earnest meritocracy, nor do they have an actual need to do so, since the overwhelming majority of what they need done is still just "average" (or less) white collar grunt work. They have a pipeline to hire lots of good-enough people as mechanically as possible, because they're huge organizations with a lot of seats to fill.
I'm not saying that H1B's need be -- or are -- any worse than domestic hires, but lets not glamorize either one as the haven for meritocracy. While some of the best talent in the world does work at each, these are ultimately high-volume meat griding code/deck factories, not artisan workshops.
groundzeros2015•2mo ago
Hmm, I would characterize FAANG employment differently.
The overwhelming commonality is class. They get people from sophisticated backgrounds who have aspirations and status.
And I think that has value in that employees act in generally trustworthy, and orderly manner, and cultivate tastes and interests that appeal to other people with money.
The exceptional programmer genius with mild Asperger’s from unknown background also exist. It’s just really rare and they kind of don’t fit in.
There just isn’t a pipeline for finding and recruiting those types, and there is for upper middle class kids.
undeveloper•2mo ago
> It’s ridiculous to think the world’s best companies are just wasting money on “average grade labor”.
They are "wasting money" on average grade labor that is chained to their employer. It's indentured servitude. Those who are able to work freely, move companies quickly, for career advancement and in search of higher pay. Some 1000$ to tie a decent worker (honestly, probably a harder worker than their native born peers --- white, asian-decent or otherwise) for 6 years is a decent payoff.
It is a true fact that the US market has an excess of well qualified and overqualified (ex-metas + ex-amazon litter the market). The US is the premier tech hub --- under the current admin, maybe we'll lose that seat to China soon --- I don't think it's a particularly strange to hold that the talent exists already here.
tacticalturtle•2mo ago
> What’s Howard University and what makes it reputable enough to mention here, presumably as some sort of appeal to authority?
It’s arguably the most well known and prestigious of the historically black college and universities in the US:
It’s a pretty recognized name in the US. Certainly enough to qualify a professor as an authority - as much as any university association can.
remarkEon•2mo ago
Others have commented on why Howard should be well known if you live here.
The whole point of the United States government existing is, supposedly, for the betterment of its citizens. From time to time, its worth debating from first principles whether or not existing immigration policy - or any policy, really - actually does this. Given the unemployment rate for recent STEM grads in the US, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask some hard questions about whether or not some of these visa schemes are actually doing good in the general sense, and not just in the specific sense of "this AI start up that's really just a ChatGPT wrapper has access to more bodies, so their runway is longer".
chequoredDaemon•2mo ago
It's in the article title, so you'll have to ask the original author?
b3ing•2mo ago
I’ve seen somebody that just got a college degree in their late 30s get a job on an h1b. Most are average, it just helps keep the job market rates from going up too high
SilverElfin•2mo ago
Deloitte is mentioned in this article but let’s not forget, all of big tech also hire H1Bs and pay them the same as others for equal seniority. These companies don’t have different process or pay scales for immigrants. They also care a lot about hiring the best talent. They know better than others and are showing it by spending their money on H1Bs, rather than just chatting about it. It’s ridiculous to think the world’s best companies are just wasting money on “average grade labor”.
I think a lot of the casual generalizations about H1Bs or other immigrants are either based on lower quality talent at consulting companies or a result of racism (especially against Indians) or a desire for a weird “woke right” version of DEI where all of a sudden, those defending meritocracy want to now be shielded from competition. That’s the harsh reality the new “America First, America Only” (AFAO) right won’t admit.
swatcoder•2mo ago
Hah!
By now, most people have worked with quite poor-to-mediocre colleague who have either:
* grinded Leetcode and wormed through the pipeline to an overpaid gig at FAANG or a Big Four firm, or
* came into their current position with years of FAANG/BigFour on their resume
Everybody beyond theor first few starry eyed years in the industry knows better than that.
Those companies don't have time and resources to develop earnest meritocracy, nor do they have an actual need to do so, since the overwhelming majority of what they need done is still just "average" (or less) white collar grunt work. They have a pipeline to hire lots of good-enough people as mechanically as possible, because they're huge organizations with a lot of seats to fill.
I'm not saying that H1B's need be -- or are -- any worse than domestic hires, but lets not glamorize either one as the haven for meritocracy. While some of the best talent in the world does work at each, these are ultimately high-volume meat griding code/deck factories, not artisan workshops.
groundzeros2015•2mo ago
The overwhelming commonality is class. They get people from sophisticated backgrounds who have aspirations and status.
And I think that has value in that employees act in generally trustworthy, and orderly manner, and cultivate tastes and interests that appeal to other people with money.
The exceptional programmer genius with mild Asperger’s from unknown background also exist. It’s just really rare and they kind of don’t fit in.
There just isn’t a pipeline for finding and recruiting those types, and there is for upper middle class kids.
undeveloper•2mo ago
They are "wasting money" on average grade labor that is chained to their employer. It's indentured servitude. Those who are able to work freely, move companies quickly, for career advancement and in search of higher pay. Some 1000$ to tie a decent worker (honestly, probably a harder worker than their native born peers --- white, asian-decent or otherwise) for 6 years is a decent payoff.
It is a true fact that the US market has an excess of well qualified and overqualified (ex-metas + ex-amazon litter the market). The US is the premier tech hub --- under the current admin, maybe we'll lose that seat to China soon --- I don't think it's a particularly strange to hold that the talent exists already here.
tacticalturtle•2mo ago
It’s arguably the most well known and prestigious of the historically black college and universities in the US:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historically_black_colleges_an...
It’s a pretty recognized name in the US. Certainly enough to qualify a professor as an authority - as much as any university association can.
remarkEon•2mo ago
The whole point of the United States government existing is, supposedly, for the betterment of its citizens. From time to time, its worth debating from first principles whether or not existing immigration policy - or any policy, really - actually does this. Given the unemployment rate for recent STEM grads in the US, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask some hard questions about whether or not some of these visa schemes are actually doing good in the general sense, and not just in the specific sense of "this AI start up that's really just a ChatGPT wrapper has access to more bodies, so their runway is longer".
chequoredDaemon•2mo ago