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IQ differences of identical twins reared apart are influenced by education

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001691825003853
48•wjb3•1h ago

Comments

l2silver•1h ago
I don't know much about IQ. In the most extreme case, of dissimilar education, the different was about 15 points. Is that a lot? What does that mean to laypeople?
wjb3•57m ago
On IQ tests, 15 points is a meaningful difference (one standard deviation), or roughly the gap between solidly average and clearly above average. It doesn’t make anyone a genius or a write-off. Still, we’d expect the higher-scoring person to generally find new learning and problem-solving easier, on average, if everything else is equal.
bena•53m ago
15 points is right around one standard deviation.

It's not nothing, but IQ is already a little squishy. No one's IQ is a single number. But the article also goes into problems with the study and other potential issues.

Basically, they're saying there is this pattern in the data as recorded, but there are multiple confounding factors and issues with collecting the data in the first place.

Aloisius•39m ago
Isn't the whole point of IQ that it is a single number? Or I suppose potentially two numbers if the quotient was expressed as a fraction.
tptacek•21m ago
This is a deeper question than it sounds. The "point" of a modern IQ test is to identify cognitive deficits to target interventions. It's abused widely among non-practitioners as a ranking of intelligence, which it is not.
azan_•7m ago
I think it's widely used in research as a marker of intelligence (and for good reason - correlates really well with cognitive abilities).
tptacek•1m ago
I don't think we have to hash this out, because "marker of intelligence" and "ranking of intelligence" are not the same thing. A rank implies a reliable scale, which IQ doesn't provide.
DaveZale•52m ago
Well a sure component of test scores reflects test taking skills. Years ago, I purchased a book of a series of IQ tests, and my numerical result increased with every test. Another component is confidence. And another is ability. It is said by some that among the first big users of IQ tests was the US Army.
jakobnissen•50m ago
IQ scores are calibrated to be normally distributed with a standard deviation of 15. So 15 is one standard deviation. That's the difference between average, and being in the smartest 16% of the population. Or being in the smartest 16%, and being in the smartest 2% of the population.
nabla9•50m ago
15 points is significant difference.

If someone is 15 points above average, they are in 84th percentile, or in top 16%.

timenotwasted•51m ago
As a parent of identical twins watching them develop and grow is fascinating. I do wonder at times how much of it is due to going through every single life stage together but then again there are times where that bond seems to go beyond environment. There was a sobering but very interesting documentary on identical twins called Three Identical Strangers, if you are interested in this type of stuff it's a good watch.
HPsquared•38m ago
The other side to this is non-identical twins, especially when still very young and have had basically the same experiences (doing everything together), they can be very different.
ortusdux•46m ago
Is there a 'teaching the test' element to this? Does more exposure to education increase your ability to take a standardized test?
DrewRWx•40m ago
More exposure to upper middle-class culture increases ones ability to take IQ tests.
PunchyHamster•37m ago
I don't think golf and tennis increases IQ
morshu9001•31m ago
Gluten reduces IQ (jk)
tptacek•29m ago
Lots of good reason to believe nutrition does.
tptacek•32m ago
We don't know.
powerclue•6m ago
We do know that response to difficulty influences performance in iq testing: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10990577/

This study found that adding or removing rewards for performing well can pretty dramatically impact performance.

"it is unclear to what extent the positive manifold reported in intelligence research since Spearman (1904) might be explained not through a shared component of intellectual capacity, but through a shared component of effort or time investment in testing tasks."

So, yes, we don't know, but the ways we don't know should also include "we don't know if iq testing is even measuring intelligence rather than stick-to-it-ness".

tptacek•4m ago
I mean I agree with that too! I would just bucket all this under "we don't know". :)
burnt-resistor•3m ago
Define "more exposure to education". ;)

Also, NCBLA standardized testing has demonstrably ruined education in America.

everdrive•34m ago
An interesting tidbit in the nature vs. nurture debate is that nature and nurture interplay in ways you might not expect. For instance, height is approximately 90% heritable in the United States -- but this does not mean that in a vacuum height is mostly genetic. It means that in the United States nutrition has mostly been solved (and yes, even the "food insecure" in the US rarely lack for the actual calories which would impact their height -- food insecurity causes other problems) and therefore the only real differences that can remain are the genetic differences.

It might be useful to look at any twin study through this lens; if we know for sure the genes are the same and nature is off the table, how much variance remains?

tptacek•32m ago
In all these discussions it's helpful to understand the definition of broad-sense heritability (the statistic almost always in play when we're discussing heritability) --- it's a correlation, not a demonstrated causation, and your environment (and gene/environment interactions) are inherited as well.
the__alchemist•27m ago
Things get even fuzzier when you throw in heritable epigenetics too. We have a balance of these factors at least:

  - Genetics (DNA seq)
  - Epigentics (Histone acetylation, base methylation etc)
  - Brain wiring from experiences
  - Chemical impact from experiences, e.g. nutrition, toxins, sunlight, muscle dev etc etc.
everdrive•22m ago
> - Brain wiring from experiences

> - Chemical impact from experiences, e.g. nutrition, toxins, sunlight, muscle dev etc etc.

Are these not all part of the nurture / environment bucket? Or are we drawing a hard boundary between nurture (eg, parenting) and environment? (eg, lead in the pipes)

the__alchemist•20m ago
I'm splitting up both "nature" and "nurture" into slightly less-broad categories. In the case of what you highlighted, yes.

For example, epigentics is sort of both "nature" and "nurture", in that you can pick up these traits, and pass them on/get them passed on.

tptacek•20m ago
Genes interact with the environment. There aren't hard boundaries the way you've phrased them.
krona•26m ago
> Of the 87 pairs, 52 experienced a similar type and duration of schooling within a similar location. In fact, 25 of these pairs attended the same school for some period of time. Analysis revealed that ‘Educationally Similar’ TRA pairs have an ICC of 0.87 ± 0.02 (n = 52)

So this study has 87-52-25=10 data points? Am I reading this correctly? Quite the reach to conclude what the article claims, if so.

krona•18m ago
> With this said, it is important to note that the ‘very dissimilar education’ group consisted of only 10 TRA pairs. This small N is not a shortcoming of this analysis, per se. Rather, this is a shortcoming of the TRA field; these 10 pairs represent the entirety of individual data published over the last century.

Authors plead innocence!

powerclue•10m ago
IQ testing was recently found to be highly driven by response to difficult challenges, and could be influenced significantly by just tuning the rewards for participants doing well. Which suggests that measuring iq is a pretty fraught science, if you are trying to draw conclusions about heritable intelligence...

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10990577/

seizethecheese•3m ago
I would guess that people will do better on just about any test when given a reward for good performance.
austin-cheney•8m ago
Sooo... yeah, but its not what you think.

There are two different kinds of IQ tests: convergent and divergent. Convergent tests are more common and test either knowledge or pattern matching. These tests are called convergent because they are a center of truth and conformance to that truth is the measured performance criteria.

Divergent tests measure the individual's creativity and abstract reasoning. The source of truth is the quantity of diversity of results submitted by the participant.

The implicit success criteria for convergent testing is reading comprehension. A person with dyslexia, for example, will perform worse on these tests irrespective of their learning speed, learned knowledge, intellectual curiosity, or creativity. This is a form of bias. Other forms of bias include memorization of terms, such as SAT preparation.

To further complicate things these measures typically only account for academic intelligence. Other forms of intelligence include social intelligence, spatial intelligence, creativity, conscientiousness, and so forth. In the concept of multi-dimensional intelligence, which is what is actually addressed in practice in the real world after high school, academic intelligence alone has very little benefit. Its like height in basketball where after 6.5ft all other factors become more important for all participants.

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