People with lower incomes pay proportionately less, government employees and high earners can also switch to private insurance where they get much better service but for non-government employees this comes with risks and has to be done at a younger age.
Do you mean some more numbers or the link to a healthcare-cost-calculator?
That’s what this article fails to comprehend: the problem isn’t that health care is being done poorly, but that it’s the only source of GDP growth in the U.S. economy. All of the points it makes are fine points, but they’re irrelevant to the cause of the problem, so they will have little effect on the problem.
But is it productive growth?
Perhaps we should increase GDP by employing people to smash windows and burn down houses?
Proper healthcare is needed, because this one is unfair and too expensive compared to everywhere else with worse outcomes.
(Here's a hint, it's actually quite affordable right now if you go to a GP out of pocket).
You're wrong and you're conflating your myopic perspective with the experiences of everyone else in the world in other countries. It's only "cheap" where you live. Here where I live, it's insanely expensive with (very expensive) insurance or without insurance (bankruptcy risk) and the average care is shit too.
billy99k•1mo ago
Until we can admit where there are problems, there will never be a solution.
slackfan•1mo ago
dominotw•1mo ago
slackfan•1mo ago
ChrisRR•1mo ago
Can you explain what's happened?
slackfan•1mo ago
Insurance companies wrote for, edited, and lobbied around most of the bill as it was passed.
E: A fun downstream effect of it was that employer-provided insurance rates also went through the roof.
triceratops•1mo ago
AlotOfReading•1mo ago
As usual, actual studies are all over the map on this. The white house said it was successful at that. NBER said it wasn't, but rates didn't double for a long time. We know rates of large increases went down for a few years, but small increases became nearly universal to compensate.
nicole_express•1mo ago
jmathai•1mo ago
Most recently, in 2024, I had medical and dental coverage for my family of 6 for around $1,200/mo - roughly half what's quoted but again, family of 6. Wasn't the greatest insurance but it would have kept us from financial ruin in case of a catastrophic event which is all I expect from insurance anyways.
brianwawok•1mo ago
jmathai•1mo ago
silverquiet•1mo ago
jqpabc123•1mo ago
Market forces naturally create low rates for those who don't need insurance and unaffordable rates for those who do. But over time, everyone gravitates from the former to the latter.
The "free market" does not offer a practical solution to every problem. Tariffs are an open admission of this basic fact.
aleph_minus_one•1mo ago
The result is what any arbitrary textbook about economy will tell you: if there are large barriers to entry into a market (i.e. the opposite of "free market"), the customer won't get the positive consequences of a free market, but instead oligopolies will form - with their negative consequences.
AlotOfReading•1mo ago
jqpabc123•1mo ago
All these companies follow suit with the market forces described above. They all want to insure young healthy people and deny old sick people --- simply because they make more money by doing so.
Over time, everyone (including you) will naturally gravitate from young and healthy to old and sick --- aka uninsurable.
Are you content for yourself or your family to be uninsured when they need it most --- after a lifetime of paying premiums? This is what private, for-profit health insurance manifests.
This is not due to "red tape" or lack of competition but is a fundamental and unavoidable characteristic of the "free market" itself.
aleph_minus_one•1mo ago
A private health insurance company is based on the idea that if you are young, you pay a lot more so that an actuarial reserve is built, which is then reduced again when you age. This means that if you want fair premiums when you are old, you will have to pay a lot larger premium in the young age.
Concerning your claim:
"They all want to insure young healthy people and deny old sick people --- simply because they make more money by doing so."
Insurance companies don't make more money when they insure young vs old people - but they will just calculate risk-appropriate premiums for each group. If you start your insurance coverage at a health insurance company when you are already old, no actuarial reserve has been built up (during the years when you were young), so the premiums will of course be much larger.
jqpabc123•1mo ago
This is laughable.
Health insurance companies don't have no steenkin "actuarial reserve". Inventing one is an act of rhetorical desperation on your part.
They only thing these companies consider or respond to is next quarter's profits.
aleph_minus_one•1mo ago
This is how private health insurance companies work in Germany and many other countries (more precisely for Germany "private Krankenversicherung nach Art der Lebensversicherung" (Google Translate: private health insurance in the form of life insurance); formally, in Germany there also exists "private Krankenversicherung nach Art der Schadenversicherung" (Google Translate: private health insurance according to the type of indemnity insurance)).
Facts:
- I have already worked with certified actuaries, and I am thus very certain that building an actuarial reserve which is then phased out when you get older [in German: Auf- und Abbau der Deckungsrückstellung (for life insurance) und Altersrückstellung (for health insurance) (in English, the term "actuarial reserve" is used for both kinds of reserves)]) is how the mathematics of life and private health insurance companies works (OK, formally only for the kind of health insurance that in German is called "private Krankenversicherung nach Art der Lebensversicherung" (Google Translate: private health insurance in the form of life insurance))
- if you still don't believe my claims, just read a good textbook about insurance of persons
everforward•1mo ago
I think it exists in the same way social security does: money from people who pay in but don’t withdraw goes to people who do withdraw. There’s probably some reserve, but I’d guess it’s thin because withdrawals should be fairly predictable for large insurers.
aleph_minus_one•1mo ago
At least in the EU, by Solvency II, insurance companies are obliged to fulfill prescribed solvency ratios (i.e. have sufficient capital resources available). I would strongly assume that there exist similar regulations in the USA.
everforward•1mo ago
scott00•1mo ago
My guess would be there's a healthy dollop of regulation pushing the German insurance market into that shape, otherwise you would probably see short-term insurers outcompeting long-term insurers since they wouldn't have to do old-age reserves and could therefore charge lower premiums. Consumers tend not to be nearly as good at rationally planning for long term expenditures as are actuaries.
aleph_minus_one•1mo ago
"Krankenversicherung nach Art der Lebensversicherung" (health insurance in the form of life insurance) and "Krankenversicherung nach Art der Schadenversicherung" (health insurance in the form of indemnity insurance).
The first one is basically an alternative to the state-mandated health insurance, while the latter one is mostly intended for more specialized health services like for example dental replacement.
There is a regulation that once you are in a "Krankenversicherung nach Art der Lebensversicherung", the health insurance company is not allowed to cancel the contract with you, but on the other hand for this restriction the health insurance company is allowed to "adjust" premiums (nearly always that means "increase premiums") if the medical costs for the agreed treatments rise (which they commonly do).
Thus having a (near-certain) cashflow over the lifetime of the whole insured person (who can only under very special circumstances get out of the insurance treaty) is quite attractive for the insurance company.
> otherwise you would probably see short-term insurers outcompeting long-term insurers since they wouldn't have to do old-age reserves and could therefore charge lower premiums
You must not compare the current premiums, but the amount of premiums that you will pay over the whole lifetime. Here, the situation is completely different.
I think considering the huge amount of money (for premiums and medical costs) that is involved here, it can only be explained with stupidity to just compare current premiums in the young age: it is very well-known that the whole actuarial reserve that the insurance company built up from the premiums of a huge part of your lifetime will be spent for medical costs in just the last few years of your life.
It is thus a really macabre truth that if we would just let patients with cancer or another expensive disease die instead of giving them expensive treatments for just few additional years it would save an insane amount of money in the health system.
jdlshore•1mo ago
It sounds like you either had junk insurance or you’re exaggerating things to score points.
antonymoose•1mo ago
jdlshore•1mo ago
The question isn’t whether the ACA raised costs—those were always going to go up. The question is whether a the ACA made them go up less than not having it. For me, the before and after trend was remarkable. And I had higher quality insurance without lifetime maximums or arbitrary exclusions.
Republicans did their level best to neuter the bill and prevent Democrats from having a “win,” and for the most part, I’d say they succeeded. The lack of a public option and the removal of mandatory coverage were both important parts of making it work well. But in the first 5 years or so, it was definitely an improvement. I think it could be again… if Republicans cared more about serving the country than pandering to their base.
xhkkffbf•1mo ago
No. That wasn't the promise. Obama said that his plan was going to cut a family's bills by $2500.
Now you may say that inflation has to creep in and I think that's fair. If oil rises in price, that affects everything. But the premise was always that the magic of the ACA would lower premiums.
collingreen•1mo ago
My impression was it would be painful in a lot of ways but we need better competition and better protection in order to have the private insurance industry actually work for people instead of abuse them and health insurance is too important (and complicated, and too much history of dishonesty) for laissez faire.
fellowniusmonk•1mo ago
I've seen attorneys, professors traders, plumbers, programmers, accounting, all go through demand cycles.
But never MDs
It is my dream that before I die I see a bust cycle on MDs where the growth of supply exceeds the demand.
Uber or Airbnb for medical care is so needed, why not break some laws to reveal how protectionist the whole industry is?
I'd gladly book a "Parody Doctor" or whatever it takes if it cost 2/5ths the price.
graybeardhacker•1mo ago
Since the majority of people don't run into those issues, they are blissfully unaware that if/when they have a major medical event they are under-insured.
xhkkffbf•1mo ago
Maybe yours dropped immediately, but I'm sure it's up quite a bit since then. You may say that's just inflation and that's part of it, but I think the deeper point is that the ACA is not containing the inflation. And that was one of the promises.
brianwawok•1mo ago
trashface•1mo ago
After ACA went into effect, I got insurance and it was reasonable - I didn't even need to claim a subsidy for first few years, until I lost my job.