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VPN location claims don't match real traffic exits

https://ipinfo.io/blog/vpn-location-mismatch-report
101•mmaia•2h ago

Comments

HotGarbage•1h ago
While exits matter to avoid countries with a nation-wide firewall, the geoip industry is a scourge.

If an ISP wants to help their users avoid geoblocking via https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8805.html more power to them.

londons_explore•1h ago
With CGNAT becoming more widespread, formats like this might need expansion to include location data for ports. Ie. Port 10,000-20,000 are consumers in New york, port numbers 20000-30000 are in Boston, etc.
raggi•57m ago
Do you have actual evidence of this? What ASN operates this way?
kalaksi•39m ago
Sounds awful, though. Maybe we should get more widespread usage for IPv6 instead.
dustywusty•59m ago
Can really spot someone who has never had to deal with OFAC with a comment like this. Even if I don't necessarily agree with the concept, or who is actually being blocked, my business is dead in the water if I'm a) sent to prison or b) fined out of existence.

Geographic IP information is one of our best tools to defend against those outcomes, and if anything it should be better.

HotGarbage•36m ago
If you were serious about limiting who uses your services you'd use an allowlist of ASNs. Even then, what about users using US-based residential proxies?
dustywusty•26m ago
ASNs can obviously span multiple countries, and aren't a great way to gate this at all. While we block ASNs we KNOW are owned/operated by companies in limited countries, but I couldn't imagine a worse way to approach it at scale. Hate doing it, it's heavy-handed and wrong.
Papazsazsa•1h ago
Cool, even our privacy protection is fraught with scammers and liars.
kachapopopow•1h ago
well to be fair it's not always important to have the server at the geoip since a lot of the time you can measure the real latency of a user behind an ip address anyway.

the only important bit is that it is made clear whenever a given country falls under some category that allows things such as traffic analysis and cataloging.

it's actually often times preferrable to lie about the server location for lower latency access geo-blocked content, particulary when accessing US geo-restricted content in europe.

if you want true privacy you have to use special tools that not only obfuscate the true origin, but also bounce your traffic around (which most of these vpns provide as an option)

Beijinger•1h ago
I am not sure that I really understand what they did. I am also missing some major VPNs in the list. I currently use AirVPN but this has something to do with my use case and pricing.

Why do you want to use a VPN?

- Privacy

- Anonymity (hint: don't!)

- unblock geolocation

- torrents

- GFC

The last point is the hardest.

https://expatcircle.com/cms/privacy/vpn-services/

luckylion•43m ago
> I am not sure that I really understand what they did.

They checked where the VPN exit nodes are physically located. A lot of them are only setting a country in the whois data for the IP, but do not actually put the exit node in that country.

Beijinger•39m ago
Yes, I don't understand the advantage or disadvantage of this. Let's say I need a Colombian IP address, I would figure it out pretty quickly it this was not genuine, except if the geo-block protection would be fooled too.

Most of the "problem" countries are tiny places. Monaco, Andorra etc. It might be tough to rent a server there. And your list of clients should be minimal.

luckylion•18m ago
You can easily test this, of course -- the problem isn't that you, the user, cannot find out, it's that you pay for being able to use an endpoint in those countries and can't, because they don't exist.

It's not only small countries either, it affects much of Latin America, including Brazil (PIA's servers were in Miami for BR as well last time I checked). I've occasionally seen it also affect US states where e.g. Massachusetts would be served from Trenton, NJ.

illusive4080•59m ago
Mullvad is the only VPN I will ever trust. Yet again they ace the test.
cedws•50m ago
Not sure why you've been downvoted. Somebody protecting their business?
flumpcakes•29m ago
I also use Mullvad VPN exclusively for my VPN needs. The fact I can get 6 months of access with a scratch card bought from a store & my account is just a random integer number is an example of privacy by design: no email, no phone numbers, no credit cards. I don't even do anything illegal, I'd just rather have a (what I feel) trusted option when I want to browse the Internet anonymously.
illusive4080•10m ago
Can you buy those in US stores?

I’ve been paying for Mullvad with Monero for years. Love it

drnick1•25m ago
The best thing is that they accept crypto. I wouldn't want to pay for a VPN with a credit card in my name.
why-o-why•50m ago
I tried to use ProtonVPN when I switched over to ProtonMail a year ago. But so much of the web does not work when you're on a VPN. For example even HackerNews has VPN restrictions. More and more sites know where VPN endpoints originate. How will VPNs prevent this in the future without them just become easy to block?
barfoure•49m ago
Same issue exists with Tor exit nodes. It’s anonymous in that you have a hoodie on with a giant spotlight right on you.
bgbntty2•33m ago
A better metaphor would be that Tor and VPNs are like wearing a mask in public. It's obvious that you're trying to be anonymous, but you're still wearing a mask, so no one knows who you are.

You may be denied entry to certain establishments, but some of the bouncers don't block all masks and if you're persistent with changing your mask (Tor or VPN exit node), there's a good chance you'll get in. CTRL+SHIFT+L works on Tor Browser to change your circuit. The linked article blocks Tor, but after pressing CTRL+SHIFT+L a few times, I was able to read it.

For the sites that don't let me view them via Tor, I can install FoxyProxy and try some IPs from the free public lists. Lots of sites that block Tor don't block these IPs, although it's a bit of a pain. Another option is to load an archived version of the site on archive.org or archive.md (or .is or the various different TLDs it uses).

As for HN - it sometimes gives a "Sorry." if you try to access a certain comment directly, but after a few tries it works. This account was created over Tor and I've only accessed it through Tor. I think my first comment was dead and someone vouched for it, but now my comments appear instantly.

I've heard that banking sites don't work over Tor, but I haven't had a need to use Tor for banking, as the bank already knows who I am pretty well.

Most of the big social media sites don't allow Tor, but if I wanted to create a fake account, I'd most likely buy a residential proxy.

So it's not that bad, considering what you get from Tor (and with some VPNs, depending on your threat model) - no tracking, anonymity and so on.

yieldcrv•44m ago
I wonder if using the wifi at a data center has the same broken browsing experience as using a VPN
HotGarbage•42m ago
Apple, for better or worse, has been able to use their size to pressure sites into accepting connections from their Private Relay service.

If VPN usage becomes the norm, sites will have to give in eventually.

dansmith1919•28m ago
Only one I have issues with is Ticketmaster, other than that I forget that it’s even on all the time
systemtest•10m ago
Even worse is the Reddit approach, where leaving your VPN on will get your account shadow banned permanently. But you are not notified of that, so if you are wondering why nobody is replying to your comments, check in a private session if you can visit your profile page.
matheusmoreira•8m ago
They can ban VPNs and Tor because it's affordable. Most of their users aren't using VPNs or Tor. Get enough people to use VPNs and Tor and they'll suddenly become unable to drop the traffic.

The ideal world is one where everyone is using Tor. They can only discriminate against you if you're different from others. The idea behind Tor is to make everyone look like the same user. The anonymity set must be maximized for that to work.

reimertz•46m ago
I know multiple people who worked / working at Mullvad and they take their business, security and privacy _very_ seriously. Not surprised to see them shine here.
eek2121•32m ago
This was a dumb study, and if they'd asked the VPN providers, I'm sure someone would tell them why.

All the VPN providers I've used let you select the endpoint from a dropdown menu. I'm not using a VPN to make it appear I'm in Russia, I'm using it as one of many tools to help further my browsing privacy.

My endpoint is one of 2 major cities that are close to me. Could I pick some random 3rd world country? Sure! That isn't the goal. The goal is to prevent my mostly static IP address from being tied to sites I use every day.

EDIT:

Small point of clarification:

All the VPN providers I use have custom or 3rd party software that allows you to select a location for the VPN. All of the VPN providers I've used also select the location with the lowest ping times as a default. I suspect most folks are just sticking with the defaults. I certainly haven't strayed outside the US/EU for any of my attempts. I have occasionally selected an EU location for specific sites not available in the US, where I live, but beyond that?

bloppe•13m ago
That's great for you. But some people need to pick a specific country. People in different countries often get different prices for things like airline tickets or online subscriptions. Maybe you need to appear from a particular country to access certain media.

I mostly use it to avoid exposing my IP address too, but if I knew my VPN was comfortable with a little light fraud, I'd be concerned about what else they're comfortable with.

aerostable_slug•13m ago
Re: random countries, sometimes with PIA the Panama exit has a crazily low ping time (I'm physically in California). I wonder what leads to it? Hawaii I can understand, there's a cable landing not far from my physical location, but Panama is a mystery to me.
ctippett•12m ago
That may be your use case, but it by no means it's reflective of anyone else's. I live in a country that actively blocks and limits your connectivity to (ordinarily) public websites. Choosing an exit point that's in a different country is very relevant and important.
ctippett•29m ago
I get advertisements for VPN providers almost everywhere. I've never been interested, but I do subscribe to Mullvad via Tailscale. So, I'm thankful and appreciative that they did their due diligence and partnered with a reputable provider. I've been very happy with the service.
drnick1•22m ago
Looks like the link is dead.
reaperducer•20m ago
Looks like the link is dead.

Turn off your VPN?

ramity•18m ago
Contrasting take: RTT and a service providing black box knowledge is not equivalent to knowledge of the backbone. To assume traffic is always efficiently routed seems dubious when considering a global scale. The supporting infrastructure of telecom is likely shaped by volume/size of traffic and not shortest paths. I'll confess my evaluation here might be overlooking some details. I'm curious on others' thoughts on this.
atmosx•16m ago
Using FreeBSD dummynet it’s possible to modify the characteristics of network traffic and emulate e.g. Somalia performance from a datacenter in France.

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