Yes, that 70's experience was better...and it's still here, refined and built on modern tooling and runtimes.
We seem to keep iterating back to that modality, but honestly, it's just nice. VS Code starts there but then Java language servers and broken Python language servers and rust language servers and exploding npm dependencies and supply chain attacks just muck everything up.
Simple simple simple is so refreshing.
This is why I programmed in Pharo (a Smalltalk descendant) professionally for a while to get that experience [1].
I feel like that using iPython is good enough of an experience to be honest. Could it be better? Sure.
But the fact that this is my iPython session:
ipython Python 3.12.9 | packaged by conda-forge | (main, Mar 4 2025, 22:44:42) [Clang 18.1.8 ] Type 'copyright', 'credits' or 'license' for more information IPython 8.32.0 -- An enhanced Interactive Python. Type '?' for help.
In [1]: def foo(): ...: return 'bar' ...:
In [2]: foo() Out[2]: 'bar'
In [3]: def foo(): ...: return 'baz' ...:
In [4]: foo() Out[4]: 'baz'
says a whole lot I think :)
The cool thing with Pharo and Lisp of course is the whole "treating code as data", where Lisp is arguably even more intense at it than Pharo - since the syntax is basically an abstract syntax tree. It really allows for automated reasoning (e.g. "give me all functions of xyz type with abc parameters, constrained to only pqr classes and only showcase the lines where they were being called, skip the definitions). So that's awesome. I haven't tested Python on this a whole lot yet and I don't know enough about Lisp to say anything useful about it, but with Pharo I vaguely remember doing some insane things since you can also access the AST and have reflection on that as well.
Pharo of course has the whole debugger inside a debugger inside a debugger experience. But that has had quite some limited use because a new process is spawned for that new debugger, so you won't have access to the exact same context that you need. I vaguely remember that some class based variables didn't have the state I needed when I went debugger inside a debugger mode. I think it was WADynamicVariable of the Seaside framework and it was because it was a singleton like thing (IIRC) and in order to have a certain behavior it could only do that by triggering exceptions (I really don't remember it well). The point is, it needed such obscure behavior to behave in the way it needed to that the debugger inside a debugger wasn't expected to copy that exception flow context, as it wasn't really intended to be used like that.
[1] I would've worked there for longer but the company got Americanized. Our company - that was profitable - got subsumed by a venture capitalist firm that had 2 companies like it that were unprofitable. We became a subsidiary/sub-company basically. Suddenly tech layoffs came, 2 rounds at least, because the company as a whole was unprofitable (as in: the other 2 subsidiaries were unprofitable and we had to pay the price). I'd have stayed there for much longer if that didn't happen. I will go on record and say that: it is my personal opinion that they destroyed a good company with good people. I won't name the company, but given that I'm posting under my real name, it's not too hard to figure out.
It's amusing that in the mid-2010 with the raise of Node, web (turned "full stack") devs advocated for JS and how static typing was really not that relevant. Then TS came and suddenly the same folks considered it an absolut game changer.
IMO this is partially true but that's mostly because not enough people are working on it. If Pharo would have as much people working on it as Python, it'd be practical really quickly.
> Maybe what I was missing the most was static/explicit typing
I actually have a talk where you can hack typing in. To be fair, it will be checked during execution, so it's not a compile time thing. It's somewhere around here (I did like 3 mini talks in one mini talks, it was pure chaos, haha [1]). It's about 5 min., the whole talk.
Personally, I'm a fan of type hints, but ultimately engineering culture and standardization is more important. Or at least, in a professional context, in a personal code context I like dynamic typing and when it gets too big, I refactor it to explicit typing.
BASIC, Common Lisp, xBase/Clipper, Perl
So yet again we got a cycle of people rediscovering the tools that predated them.
Generally avoiding C unless something specific and small absolutely requires performance (rather than premature optimization), because maintainability, safety, and velocity tend to be better in higher-level languages.
This existed in Lisp and Smalltalk systems. Since there's no disk/running program split you don't have to serialize your data. You just pass around Lisp sexprs or Smalltalk code/ASTs. No more sucking your data from Postgres over a straw, or between microservices, or ...
These systems are magnitudes smaller and simpler than what we've built today. I'd love to see them exist again.
In terms of ops usability, it's difficult to beat reliability, availability, and serviceability (RAS) features of mainframes. Erlang/OTP comes close.
I think JSON is not the best format for the persistence though (despite their claim that it is better than binary formats, it has many problems); it has many problems, such as not a proper integer type and not non-Unicode text types or binary types, etc; and different format would better, such as DER. If you use DER, then you can use better types, better character sets, binary data, and not limits to how big numbers can be, etc. (JSON might work for JavaScript, but even then only for some types; JavaScript has more types than JSON has, including JavaScript does actually have a integer type even though JSON does not.) (With using JSON, it will just mean that you will then have to wrap other data in JSON anyways (e.g. encoding DER as base64) and the meaning will have to be converted.) (Also, you can work around not being a text format, because you can have a program to display them, like a program can be used to display any other kind of data in other ways (e.g. syntax highlighting, pictures, auto formatting, etc).)
ok123456•1h ago
For interpreted languages, most fancy IDEs provide a language interpreter shell, which is a REPL.
melvinroest•1h ago