frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Why outcome-billing makes sense for AI Agents

https://www.valmi.io/blog/an-imperative-for-ai-agents-outcome-billing-with-valmi/
15•rajvarkala•1h ago

Comments

alberth•40m ago
So who's the arbiter to determine if the outcome was achieved?

And how do you programmatically measure it?

nerdjon•31m ago
The obvious solution is just to throw more LLM's at it to verify the output of the other LLM and that it is doing its job...

\s (mostly because you know this will be the "Solution" that many will just run with despite the very real issue of how "persuadable" these systems are)...

The real answer is that even that will fail and there will have to be a feedback loop with a human that will likely in many cases lead to more churn trying to fix the work the AI did vs if the human just did it in the first place.

Instead of focusing on the places that using an AI tool can truly cut down on time spent like searching for something (which can still fail but at least the risk when a failure is far lower vs producing output).

malux85•28m ago
This is the problem with this, in simple cases like “you add N employees” then you can vaguely approximate it, like they do in the article.

But for anything that’s not this trivial example, the person who knows the value most accurately is … the customer! Who is also the person who is paying the bill, so there’s strong financial incentive for them not to reveal this info to you.

I don’t think this will work …

rajvarkala•21m ago
I often go back to customer support voice AI agent example. Let's say, The bot can resolve tickets successfully at a certain rate . This is capturable easily. Why is this difficult? What cases am I missing?
rajvarkala•11m ago
Hi alberth,

I'd assume an outcome is a negotiated agreement between buyer and Agent provider.

Think of all the n8n workflows. If we take a simple example of Expense receipt processing workflows, or a lead sourcing workflow, I'd think the outcomes can be counted pretty well. In these cases, successfully entered receipts into ERP or number of Entries captured in salesforce.

I am sure there are cases where outcomes are fuzzy, for instances employer-employee agreement.

But in some cases, for instance, my accounting agent would only get paid if he successfully uploads my tax returns.

Surely not applicable in all cases. But, in cases Where a human is measured on outcomes, the same should be applicable for agents too, I guess

SkyPuncher•30m ago
Outcome billing is ideal for pretty much any SaaS product.

Sounds great in theory, until you realize everyone has a different definition of outcome.

rajvarkala•28m ago
Understood.

Take for instance, customer support Agent , that is supposed to resolve tickets. Assuming it resolves around 30% tickets by an objective measure. Do you think that cannot be captured and agreed upon by both sides?

wood_spirit•14m ago
You get what you measure. The bot might be really bad and customers close the chat and it gets counted as success etc.
artembugara•11m ago
It really makes sense, and the best part — customers love it. It’s the simple form of pricing, and it’s simple to understand.

In many cases though, you don’t know whether the outcome is correct or not but we just have evals for that.

Our product is a SOTA recall-first web search for complex queries. For example, let’s say your agent needs to find all instances of product launches in the past week.

“Classic” web search would return top results while ours return a full dataset where each row is a unique product (with citations to web pages)

We charge a flat fee per record. So, if we found 100 records, you pay us for 100. Of its 0 then it’s free.

Neywiny•10m ago
Maybe it's not as nice a story there as he's from India, but outside India people like to talk about their cobra problem and failed solution (retold below). This feels like that. If it's a ticket system, it could close them all as unresovable overnight. If it cares about customer satisfaction, it could give everybody thousand dollar gift cards. Point is, AIs existence is predicated on finding a way to improve its score by any means necessary, and that needs very careful bounding.

I believe it was under British rule, they offered a reward for people bringing in dead cobras as proof of culling. Which worked until people started breeding them just to get the reward. Humans gamed the system and it made the problem worse.

_pdp_•8m ago
You can apply the same philosophy to employees and if you dare to do so you will quickly find out that it does not work. When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure - Goodhart's law. I cannot see why AI agents should be treated differently when it comes to fuzzy measurements of performance.
wagwang•6m ago
Bcuz the performance is usually not fuzzy and also the law only applies to certain jobs -- you would not apply the law to salesmen or customer support agents.

Why isn't modern AI built around principles from cognitive science?

https://infinitefaculty.substack.com/p/why-isnt-modern-ai-built-around-principles
1•ArmageddonIt•51s ago•0 comments

MATCH_RECOGNIZE in BigQuery

https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/data-analytics/introducing-match_recognize-in-bigquery
1•tanelpoder•1m ago•0 comments

GitHub postponing the announced billing change for self-hosted GitHub Actions

https://twitter.com/jaredpalmer/status/2001373329811181846
1•coloneltcb•2m ago•0 comments

With Prices Soaring, Can New York Survive as a Mecca for the Arts?

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/15/nyregion/creative-economy-new-york-city.html
1•garbawarb•4m ago•0 comments

Driving a seamless Chromium experience on MediaTek SoCs

https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/news-and-events/driving-a-seamless-chromium-experience-on...
1•losgehts•4m ago•0 comments

Explainable AI in Chat Interfaces

https://www.nngroup.com/articles/explainable-ai/
1•ulrischa•6m ago•0 comments

Memory Allocation in Go

https://nghiant3223.github.io/2025/06/03/memory_allocation_in_go.html
1•kunley•6m ago•0 comments

Ask HN: Open-Source Medical Datasets?

1•max_•6m ago•0 comments

OBS Add Simulcast Support

https://github.com/obsproject/obs-studio/pull/10885
1•Sean-Der•7m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Pgpm, a package manager for application-level PostgreSQL modules

https://constructive.io/blog/modular-postgres-pgpm
1•pyramation•7m ago•0 comments

Blocking AI web-scraping bots on personal sites using Nginx on low-power servers

https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/lr-robot-blocking.html
1•speckx•7m ago•0 comments

Nvidia Plans to Reduce RTX 50 Production by Up to 40% in Early 2026

https://www.techpowerup.com/344177/nvidia-plans-to-reduce-rtx-50-production-by-up-to-40-in-early-...
2•akyuu•8m ago•0 comments

Best Places to Work in IT 2026 – Computerworld

https://www.computerworld.com/article/4074844/computerworld-best-places-to-work-in-it-2026.html
2•rbanffy•10m ago•0 comments

The One Startup Book Worth Re-Reading Annually

https://medium.com/@gp2030/the-one-startup-book-worth-re-reading-annually-41fc7cbc7771
1•light_triad•12m ago•0 comments

Poland to start producing anti-personnel mines to lay along eastern border

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/poland-start-producing-anti-personnel-mines-la...
1•JumpCrisscross•12m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Thugg.lol – a Link-in-Bio platform built from scratch

1•m6jo9•15m ago•0 comments

A Polemic on the Importance of Beauty

https://www.nubero.ch/blog/017/
1•nubero•15m ago•0 comments

Show HN: GitForms – Zero-cost contact forms using GitHub Issues as database

https://gitforms-landing.vercel.app/
1•lgreco•16m ago•0 comments

The Resistors Were Teenage Hackers and Computer Pioneers

https://spectrum.ieee.org/teenage-hackers
1•rbanffy•16m ago•0 comments

What Is Ultorg?

https://www.ultorg.com/docs/intro/what-is-ultorg/
1•thunderbong•17m ago•0 comments

Hfjfgj

https://blog.cloudflare.com/post-quantum-warp/
1•mihat•17m ago•0 comments

Nano Banana is so good that you can use it to play a RPG at 1 frame a minute

https://johnfn.substack.com/p/nano-banana-is-so-good-that-you-can
3•johnfn•18m ago•0 comments

Hybrid GPU–CPU Approach to Faster Vector Indexing and Cheaper Queries

https://milvus.io/blog/faster-index-builds-and-scalable-queries-with-gpu-cagra-in-milvus.md
1•Fendy•19m ago•0 comments

AssetOpsBench, IBM's first industry 4.0 benchmark – IBM Research

https://research.ibm.com/blog/asset-ops-benchmark
1•rbanffy•20m ago•0 comments

Cellhasher – Server Rack for Mobile Device Boards

https://cellhasher.com/
1•walterbell•21m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Jsonlinter.org

https://jsonlinter.org
2•plsft•21m ago•2 comments

The AI Agents Roadmap Nobody Is Teaching You

https://www.decodingai.com/p/ai-agents-foundations-course
1•BerislavLopac•22m ago•0 comments

Significant Performance Gains for Radeon RADV Ray-Tracing Performance in 2025

https://www.phoronix.com/review/radeon-radv-rt-2025#google_vignette
1•doener•22m ago•0 comments

TamaGo: Bare Metal Go

https://github.com/usbarmory/tamago
1•nateb2022•23m ago•0 comments

Gsdf: GPU accelerated 3D/2D CAD design in Go

https://github.com/soypat/gsdf
1•nateb2022•25m ago•0 comments