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From pr0n to playlists and paperclips, trio of breaches spills data of millions

https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/16/trio_of_breaches/
1•Bender•1m ago•0 comments

Show HN: A browser game about the AI alignment problem

https://thechoicebeforeus.com/
1•NickSharp•2m ago•0 comments

From Georgia to Essex, AI datacenters are testing public goodwill

https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/16/datacenter_development_controversy/
1•Bender•3m ago•0 comments

Cisco says Chinese hackers are exploiting its customers with a new zero-day

https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/17/cisco-says-chinese-hackers-are-exploiting-its-customers-with-a-...
2•fortran77•3m ago•0 comments

Browser 'privacy' extensions have eye on your AI, log all your chats

https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/16/chrome_edge_privacy_extensions_quietly/
1•Bender•4m ago•0 comments

Boom Supersonic raises $300M to build natural gas turbines for data centers

https://techcrunch.com/2025/12/09/boom-supersonic-raises-300m-to-build-natural-gas-turbines-for-c...
1•CGMthrowaway•7m ago•2 comments

Not as intelligent as they are thought to be

1•wef•7m ago•0 comments

OpenAI's the State of Enterprise AI

https://newsletter.eng-leadership.com/p/openais-report-the-state-of-enterprise
1•rbanffy•8m ago•0 comments

StorageReview Sets New Pi Record: 314T Digits on a Dell PowerEdge R7725

https://www.storagereview.com/review/storagereview-sets-new-pi-record-314-trillion-digits-on-a-de...
2•rbanffy•8m ago•0 comments

Skills vs. Dynamic MCP Loadouts

https://lucumr.pocoo.org/2025/12/13/skills-vs-mcp/
1•gmays•8m ago•0 comments

Linux Patches Begin Adapting Raid Code to Use Folios

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-RAID-MD-Folios
2•doener•9m ago•0 comments

Bad CSS-Dad Jokes

https://alvaromontoro.com/blog/68087/bad-css-dad-jokes-v
1•ulrischa•9m ago•0 comments

Office of the Ombudsman responding to cybersecurity incident

https://ombudsman.ie/en/news/7fec0-office-of-the-ombudsman-responding-to-cybersecurity-incident/
2•austinallegro•11m ago•0 comments

Largescale study confirms the psychophysiological benefits of the Wim Hof Method

https://www.wimhofmethod.com/blog/queensland-nature-study-400-participants
1•robaato•13m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Yet another tool to wrap agents in a loop

https://github.com/mikeyobrien/ralph-orchestrator
2•mobrienv•15m ago•0 comments

FCC no longer claims to be independent

https://bsky.app/profile/parkermolloy.com/post/3ma7ilntlis2m
3•doener•16m ago•1 comments

Building AI the Firefox way: Shaping what's next together

https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/discussions/building-ai-the-firefox-way-shaping-what-s-next-togeth...
2•rolph•16m ago•0 comments

Ark.jl – Archetype-Based Entity Component System (ECS) for Julia

https://github.com/mlange-42/Ark.jl
1•TheWiggles•16m ago•0 comments

What kind of person is DeepSeek's founder, Liang Wenfeng?

https://lmsherlock.substack.com/p/what-kind-of-person-is-deepseeks
2•gmays•16m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Claude wrote a NES emulator using my engine's API

https://carimbo.games/games/nintendo/
1•delduca•17m ago•0 comments

Replit's Snapshot Engine: The Tech Making AI Agents Safe

https://blog.replit.com/inside-replits-snapshot-engine
1•cbrewster•18m ago•0 comments

My Favorite Apps of 2025

https://taoofmac.com/space/blog/2025/12/17/2100
1•rcarmo•21m ago•0 comments

Show HN: passkeybot.com - A sign in page that only supports passkeys

https://github.com/emadda/passkeybot
1•emadda•21m ago•0 comments

Student Loan Deductions

https://incoherency.co.uk/blog/stories/student-loan.html
1•surprisetalk•22m ago•0 comments

I built Pinpoint: a daily mini-game for discovering your city

https://imperfectionist.substack.com/p/how-i-built-pinpoint
1•surprisetalk•22m ago•0 comments

Charts in Slides

https://ia.net/topics/charts-in-slides
1•surprisetalk•22m ago•0 comments

Confidently Wrong

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2025/11/confidently-wrong.html
2•surprisetalk•22m ago•0 comments

Cloudflare Radar 2025 Year in Review

https://radar.cloudflare.com/year-in-review/2025
6•ksec•24m ago•0 comments

Ask HN: AI Took Your Job?

2•8jef•24m ago•0 comments

Rapidus explores panel-level packaging on glass for next-gen processors

https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/semiconductors/rapidus-explores-panel-level-packaging-...
1•rbanffy•25m ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

Why do commercial spaces sit vacant?

https://archive.strongtowns.org/journal/2025/5/21/why-do-commercial-spaces-sit-vacant
85•NaOH•1h ago

Comments

polalavik•1h ago
We need land value tax bad [1]

In Los Angeles I’ve watched business after business close because their rent was increased by their commercial landlord only for the property to sit vacant in some cases (no exaggeration) for over 5 years!

Thats absurd. Also as a business owner who would like some space to work out of your only options are endless swaths of vacant industrial buildings that are tens of thousands in rent a month. I don’t quite get how anyone runs a brick and mortar or has space to do anything profitable.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax

zem•58m ago
same thing happens in SF, often to businesses that have been a valued part of the local neighbourhood for years. it's infuriating.
anigbrowl•8m ago
Yep, this has wiped out my favorite deli, local cinemas, and bookstores in the east bay. Basically non-capital-intensive businesses seem to pay the price for the market signal falsification engaged in by landlords and banks. But nobody wants to bite the bullet and risk setting off a repeat of the 2008 financial crisis, so we've ended up with some kind of hypernormalization-style fake economy which is being 'run' by a former reality TV star and a bunch of TV personalities and political entrepreneurs.
dec0dedab0de•53m ago
Don't underestimate how many businesses are supplementing their income with dirty money.
harmmonica•48m ago
I’d support a land value tax myself so don’t take this following comment as criticism, but you don’t even need a land value tax in the case of LA. You do need to repeal Prop 13 for investment properties. I wager most of those years-vacant properties have a generous Prop 13 assessment and so the owner can just sit on it because their carrying cost is closer to zero than what it would be in any other tax regime. Then all of us folks around them continue to make the adjacent area nicer and they just ride off into the sunset while the absurd delta between their taxable value and market value increases.

Prop 13 is like the anti land value tax. Makes places like Texas look downright progressive.

spankalee•34m ago
We need to repeal Prop 13 completely. The fact that my neighbors pay 1/10th the property tax that I do, despite being younger and less at risk of being forced out of their home due to going fixed income or some financial crisis, is absurd.
ricksunny•18m ago
I'm a former (i.e. not irrelevant to the question) Californian who also thinks Prop 13 should be repealed, and am probably supportive of LVT;

Can you walk through the scenario that younger neighbors pay a tech of the property tax you do? Are they legacies and benefiting from some sort of inherited trust or something?

margalabargala•16m ago
Doing that would be good policy but bad politics. The people it would hurt the worst are the ones who vote most (older people) and the people most responsible for cities being the way they are (people who have lived in one spot a long time). So it's unlikely to directly happen, for that reason.

Piecemeal reform is much easier to swallow. Especially if you start with something like commercial properties, and especially since the increased income that results can be used to create tangible community improvements.

So even if your ultimate goal is full repeal, the correct strategy to make that come about is piecemeal reform, and pushing for a full repeal is counterproductive to that happening.

epistasis•31m ago
We were very close to repealing Prop 13 on commercial property a few years ago (via Prop 15).

One of the biggest objections to a straight repeal Prop 13 on commercial property is that most commercial leases are triple-net, meaning that the businesses directly pay the taxes. Which means that a bunch of small businesses that are just barely on the edge of profitability will shut down when they finally have to pay their fair share of property tax.

Agreed on the need to do it though (and also Texas typically has higher taxes for a normal person, with worse services than California). We might just want to pass a gradual phase in or a requirement that landowners pay it without increasing rent )and doing reach through to modify all those triple net leases... or something. Or we just let the businesses fail, but the public tends to not like lots of small businesses failing.

avidiax•14m ago
The inability to pay a high tax increase constantly comes up in discussions on Prop 13, and it seems like a willful failure to find a solution.

For personal property, raise the taxes, and give the home owner the option to defer the raise as a lien against the property, accruing fair interest. Nobody gets kicked out of their home, and the taxes get paid when the home is sold. If it is inherited, then the inheritors will have to increase their taxes paid at least so that the lien amount no longer increases relative to the home value.

For commercial property, cap the property tax paid by the lease-holder to the historic rate + a several percent growth to gradually meet the current tax bill. The rest of the tax becomes a lien on the property to be paid on sale, with forced payment increases if the lien to value ratio becomes too large. It would be up to the property owner whether they pay the additional tax or take it as a lien. Ultimately, commercial prop 13 was a mistake, and businesses that can't compete on a level playing field need to be gradually pressured to improve profitability or make the space available to someone that can.

toast0•13m ago
> We might just want to pass a gradual phase in

You could probably adjust the annual percentage increase and find a balance between pre-prop13 problems of rapidly increasing property tax and the post-prop13 problems of significant gap between capped assessment and actual value.

Probably also need to do something about transfers via holding companies as well, since there's a ton of commercial properties that have never had their assessment cap reset because of the way the beneficial holding rules apply to corporations. OTOH, if the capped assessment grows at something like 5% per year, maybe it can catch up soon enough anyway.

coliveira•46m ago
Some businesses survive because they already own the property or have long time leases.
kcplate•30m ago
Sometimes the last lessee is still on the hook for the remainder of the lease due to landlord improvements for the tenant. Had a friend lease a retail storefront, his business failed, but he still was coughing up rent to the landlord until the space was leased again. He was a sole proprietor and had to personally guarantee the lease. It was in his best interests to pay it rather than take the hit to his credit by defaulting on the lease.

My guess is a already wealthy landlord would probably be motivated to ride out the remainder of an existing lease and write off any unpaid amount as a loss before lowering the price to attract another business into the space.

PaulHoule•42m ago
The article points that adding any more costs just costs the operator money and won't change their behavior unless the costs are so high that the bank is forced to foreclose. Maybe on some that level that is a good thing and clears the market but in the current situation the banks just won't make loans unless this happens.

It makes me think of the "poker game" model of nuclear power plant construction where the vendor is quoting a price lower than they know it will cost because otherwise they wouldn't make the sale. If commercial buildings were properly priced at the outset, banks would be financing fewer of them.

estearum•41m ago
> The article points that adding any more costs just costs the operator money and won't change their behavior unless the costs are so high that the bank is forced to foreclose.

That is assuming operators are roughly zero-IQ automatons who can't factor future costs into present decisions?

marcosdumay•38m ago
Yes, the idea of a land value tax is to make it high enough to for banks to foreclose. The entire thing is about making sure land is used on the most socially benefiting way possible.
dragonwriter•26m ago
> The entire thing is about making sure land is used on the most socially benefiting way possible.

The idea of land value tax is to make the government effectively the universal landowner and everyone else renters, and renters paying a high enough rent that it is economically infeasible to use land for any but the most financially remunerative purpose.

Having it optimizing for social utility rather than maximizing negative externalities requires a finely optimized system of Pigovian taxes and subsidies, otherwise you are nailing the accelerator to the floor on the divergence between market incentives and social utility.

epistasis•17m ago
It would make sense to have those Pigouvian taxes no matter what. But having an LVT is orthogonal, and it doesn't make the bad economic incentives that much worse. Especially since most economic activity subject to pigouvian taxes will not be much affected by land value taxation.
dragonwriter•8m ago
> It would make sense to have those Pigouvian taxes no matter what. But having an LVT is orthogonal

It is absolutely not orthogonal; LVT by design makes doing things with property that are less financially remunerative unviable, it’s key selling point is eliminating “less productive” uses by that mechanism. This exacerbates any divergence between market incentives and social utility.

spwa4•39m ago
How does land value tax change the scenario in the article? It plays out exactly the same way with and without land value tax.
spankalee•29m ago
Land value tax mainly helps with severely under-utilized properties like parking lots. Right now a parking lot is taxed far, far lower than a lot with a building, so the owner can keep it for parking when it would be better utilized as residential, commercial, or office space.

If it didn't pencil out to just site on empty land, we'd get better development.

atoav•36m ago
And I don't even think it is controversial. People who squat on needed resources without using them are a drain on society, thus society should try to create an incentive structure for using spaces. A tax can be part of this.
scifi•36m ago
True. What I don’t get, is how is vacancy a good move for the landlord? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have a tenant during that time?
bobthepanda•28m ago
Commercial loans are not like residential mortgages and often the loan is based on a minimum rent. If you go below that then you are in default.
duskwuff•25m ago
I don't like just saying "read the article", but this is precisely what the article explains. In short: the rental rates are a condition of the property owner's loan.
danjl•20m ago
What about incentivizing switching the building from commercial to residential? Given that commercial brick and mortar are generally on a downward trend, and the need for housing continues to increase, it would seem better to switch the property zoning in the long run. Since I'm clueless about the financial details of commercial real estate, I'm sure this proposal is full of holes, but, as a rule, I prefer incentives rather than penalties to motivate change.
seanmcdirmid•5m ago
Is it because of Prop 13 that commercial property owners aren't paying adequate property taxes that would act to encourage use?
bell-cot•58m ago
One "Simple Fix" for cities, albeit with limited scope: Force your Planning Commission, Zoning Board, etc. to keep track of the vacancy rates for commercial space. Then use their powers to strongly discourage the construction of yet more vacant commercial space. And/or renovation of such space to other uses.

EDIT:

- Please do not assume some trivial straw-man implementation of this idea. That includes City organization being hopelessly corrupt or incompetent.

antognini•50m ago
How would this help? If the existing operators refuse to lower rents and leave their spaces vacant then under this scheme no one else can build new spaces which rent at lower rates. You would just be stuck with vacant properties at above-market rates.
estearum•40m ago
No, Just Tax Land (TM)
kevin_thibedeau•38m ago
Just charge a fine for poorly maintained space that degrades the community. They do this for homeowners.
warkdarrior•34m ago
This policy would backfire greatly. For one, if I want to keep a competitor from expanding into my town, I'll just lease some commercial space and keep it vacant. That way they cannot build in my town.
bluGill•32m ago
That is a bad answer because it invites too much power to those commissions/boards. They already have a lot of power which they abuse (in places) to not allow things they don't like that would be good for the community.
dec0dedab0de•54m ago
Interesting, but It doesn't answer why a bank would hold a completely vacant building for 15 years.

I think we need Vacancy taxes that go up based on the percentage of time vacant over different spans of time. Anything that makes owning an empty building a bad investment in all circumstances. This needs to apply to all units in a multitenant building.

coliveira•48m ago
This doesn't happen because the owners of commercial property are very rich people. Adding these rules would essentially devalue commercial property all over the US, and we know how congress would never allow this to happen.
roenxi•42m ago
> Anything that makes owning an empty building a bad investment in all circumstances

But empty buildings aren't a bad idea under all circumstances. Eg, It might be prudent to have empty living space in a tourist or student area to deal with annual surges in demand. Or maybe someone has a warehouse full of facemasks because they think the price will 10x in the next pandemic. We'd have the same crowd complaining about empty buildings saying they were just doing it to hide the fact that the building is empty when in fact that is a pretty reasonable strategy that would be socially beneficial.

CobrastanJorji•41m ago
A property tax is intended to be this, I think. You pay for owning an expensive commercial plot. If you are making enough money with it to pay the tax, great. If not, sell it or lose money.

I suppose the model sucks because the community is highly benefited by a low profit cozy coffee shop or book store, which might not be able to afford the property tax rate needed to discourage the "keep it vacant" strategy.

Maybe I changed my mind, and "vacant and/or not being used for its zoning purpose" needs a separate, additional fee.

Triesault•41m ago
> Interesting, but It doesn't answer why a bank would hold a completely vacant building for 15 years.

I had the exact same question before I fully read the article.

This is answered in the article in the "Extend and Pretend" section.

> "And so long as the operator can afford to keep losing $140k per year on the building… they can!"

> [...]

> "The only sticking point here is that the building operator is still losing $140k per year. But remember that, if he gives up, he loses the $4 million he’s already put into the building. Even if he ended up paying $140k per year for 10 years before things turned around, losing $1.4 million is still better than losing $4 million."

Extending the article's example to a scenario where the building was vacant for 15 years, it means the operator was willing to lose $140K per year. In the 15 year scenario, the operator lost $2.1 million ($140K * 15 years) which is still better than losing the $4 million if the operator walked away from the investment.

> Anything that makes owning an empty building a bad investment in all circumstances.

In the final section "This Sucks, What Could We Do About It?", it mentions how adding a vacant store font tax would end up creating more foreclosures. This is the side effect of the financialization of real estate.

toast0•40m ago
> Interesting, but It doesn't answer why a bank would hold a completely vacant building for 15 years.

Lowering the rent to fill their building reduces the value of that building, which means when they sell it, they will recognize a loss that is likely larger than many years of operating loss from the empty building.

Additionally, lowering the rent for that building will also reduces the value of other nearby buildings that have that building as a comparable property. Then when those buildings come up for refinance, either the borrower will have to come up with more funds so that the loan to value max isn't exceeded or the borrower will default and the bank will lose the income stream and be holding another property where their investment is more than the value.

Borrowers usually don't want to come up with more funds on a property where they're underwater and banks don't want to foreclose on property where the bank will be underwater, so it's in the bank's interest to let things be vacant and keep the valuations based on the previous rent, rather than lowering the rent and facing the music. You'll also see promos like first several months free, rather than reducing the rent, so you can report it's rented at whatever the headline rate is, even if the tenant is effectively paying much less; of course, the tenant will be looking for somewhere else to rent come renewal.

This is far from the only case in banking where taking some action on an asset that would otherwise be reasonable won't be done, because it would trigger a mark to market on too many other assets. Ex: you can't sell realize a loss to sell treasury bonds to satisfy cash flow needs, because you'll have to mark to market all the similar bonds, and then you won't meet your reserve needs.

ryandrake•28m ago
> Lowering the rent to fill their building reduces the value of that building

> Additionally, lowering the rent for that building will also reduces the value of other nearby buildings that have that building as a comparable property

> it's in the bank's interest to let things be vacant and keep the valuations based on the previous rent, rather than lowering the rent and facing the music.

This just seems like everyone involved is playing make-believe about the actual value of their property. A tax on vacant land that increases exponentially year after year might help to correct this behavior, because at some point, it costs less to realize the loss than it does to pay the ever-increasing vacant land tax.

chucksta•26m ago
They are, value is relative. If the local government did that, it would discourage investors and future growth. They would go somewhere with less risk
bobthepanda•26m ago
The behavior with a lot of commercial real estate loans atm is literally called “extend and pretend”
tokioyoyo•14m ago
Other than some of the residents who don’t want to see empty storefronts, who is incentivized to push for a correction in this case? It’s a “everybody loses” scenario, this everyone pretends to believe the numbers.
yesfitz•11m ago
Since you brought up treasury bonds, during the 2023 Banking Crisis, the Federal Reserve created the Bank Term Funding Program[1] that let banks borrow against the par value of bonds, rather than the market value.

I thought it was a really elegant solution, and has made me wonder if a similar program could be used for vacant Commercial Real Estate in the cast of a national vacancy tax, land value tax, or similar value-lowering event.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Term_Funding_Program#Prog...

staplers•39m ago

  why a bank would hold a completely vacant building for 15 years.
Allows for inflated valuations and hypotheticals which appear on paper as absolute but in reality are much lower.

By leasing for cheaper they effectively capitulate and sell at a loss which will hammer their funding ability. It's land speculation similar to tech speculation. Inflate valuations, get a longer runway from lenders, etc.

At some point it has to come back to reality, but as the saying goes: "The market (land owners) can remain irrational longer than you (businesses) can remain solvent."

Aunche•19m ago
A vacancy tax would work on areas with high demand, but it also punishes areas that are already struggling.
LgWoodenBadger•52m ago
Pricing something based on what you project to make over 20 years seems like an insane way to go about it. Nobody can predict that far in the future.

It's a no-lose scenario for banks though, which is why it's done that way I guess.

antognini•48m ago
This article probably omitted it for simplicity, but you would discount the income stream over time. Projected income at the 20 year mark is valued much less than income next year. That helps to account for the uncertainty.
crazygringo•41m ago
Everything is priced that way, basically. In the world of finance, everything is priced according to the future income it can generate -- not just real estate, but stocks, bonds, etc. There's nothing insane about it. To the contrary, it's the only rational way of doing things.

You're right that nobody can predict correctly that far in the future, but ultimately you have to choose whether you think a business decision will be profitable or not, so you have to predict anyways or else you could never do anything. People build lots of models to try to predict better. And market prices reflect a middle point between the pessimists and the optimists.

Also, it's not no-lose for banks. If the owner walks and the property is re-sold for less than it was originally bought for minus the down payment, the bank very much loses. That's a major point of the article, why the bank would prefer the space to continue vacant for a few years than take that loss.

soared•51m ago
In the current world isn’t the “downtown parking lot” situation more common? Where the value of the asset is increasing so quickly year over year, that locking in a contract right now for x years mean forfeiting the increases of future years - meaning the value of your asset is more when vacant than when rented/built on? IE why sell my parking lot this year for $5M when I’m 2 years it will be worth $7M, so I’m better off waiting and taking no income for the next two years as opposed to taking $5M and investing it.
strongpigeon•50m ago
A problem is that the externalities of leaving a space vacant are not priced in. Having a bunch of storefront vacant in an area makes it much less appealing and devalues all the other properties surrounding it. It does seem like a vacant storefront tax, which is briefly mentioned at the end of the article, could address this, if partially.

This whole extend and pretend deal seems like it's simply accumulating risk hoping this will pass, while risking an even bigger, potentially systemic crash. Though I honestly don't know that much about the commercial finance world.

Ferret7446•46m ago
That would just devalue the surrounding property even more. This is why "we should just do X" is almost always a bad idea.
immibis•43m ago
By "devalue" you mean "lower the price of" which... seems fine? Useful assets being cheaper is a good thing.
HeyLaughingBoy•30m ago
As long as you're not the owner of said asset.
strongpigeon•9m ago
> That would just devalue the surrounding property even more.

Why do you think that's the case? I'm sure it would make the entire city seem like a riskier investment at first, but it seems like in the medium term it would help address the situation described in the article.

bflesch•33m ago
A "vacant storefront tax" would easily be circumvented by a legal entity with a vending machine business or the "owner" themselves putting one of their "offices" there (a table).
ryandrake•26m ago
Any realistic vacant land tax with teeth would obviously need to define vacancy such that silly tricks like this wouldn't work.
rwmj•3m ago
No no no .. snails!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9v1rjlekpeo

mistercheph•49m ago
This doesn't make sense to me, why is lowering rent by 30% any more "proof" that the building is not worth what's stated on the bill than having a 30% vacancy rate at the expected value? Aren't both subject to the same "market conditions" argument?
senordevnyc•47m ago
Agreed. I’ve always been skeptical of this argument, because it assumes the counterparty to these valuation models is consistently an idiot.
Ekaros•33m ago
Counter party is either stupid, careless, on it or forced. I think often there is intermediaries involved. Say real estate investment fund. For which on paper in short term numbers looking good is enough. And in past environment as long as there was enough money coming in the ponzi could continue to run.

And other parties further can be say pension funds, which on paper are forced to search for anything that make their goals look good enough. Thus not doing enough due diligence.

Everything is fine until it is not. And this has been seen time after time.

coliveira•44m ago
In a normal world yes. But banks are incentivized to mark up the value of these properties, so they continue to do that.
immibis•42m ago
I believe the argument is not about value itself, but about gaming certain ways to estimate value. For example a certain bank might have a policy that value is a certain multiple of rent.
mixedbit•36m ago
I think the argument is that the building was able to generate such income stream, in this case the stream comes from the owner. The owner is betting the investment will pay-off at some point, so is taking temporary loses (you could say that the owner is paying the rent for the vacant places).
toast0•27m ago
It's all about contract/loan assumptions.

If the space is vacant, and the last known rent was $X, the assumption is that borrower is bad at advertising space, but a successor would be able to get it rented again at that rate.

OTOH, if the space is rented at 0.7 times $X, the tenants may have a long term lease that fixes that price for a significant time and even a savvy successor would have a hard time raising rents, so the valuation needs to be calculated based on current rent.

bix6•46m ago
> a building is not a building but a financial product.

Are we cooked chat?

Analemma_•36m ago
Your house and the 30-year fixed-rate mortgage on it is a financial product too, and a fairly complex and risky one at that. This fact is just well-hidden from you by nested layers of government subsidies.

There is basically no way for real estate to not be a complex financial product, because almost no one can pay cash-up-front for it. If it wasn't financialized, nobody could ever afford to own anything and we'd all be feudal serfs renting from a couple landlords.

Ekaros•29m ago
Or we would live in unregulated slums...

Not that whole sector isn't over financialised.

bix6•21m ago
Sure we could do a better job of it though. Local banks used to be core community helpers. Now it’s just JPM branch after JPM branch.
jeffbee•36m ago
Unmentioned in this article is the spread of small business pretend as a lifestyle, where someone signs a lease for the space, pays the rent, and never opens it or only after years of futzing around. They can do this because they have some other source of income, and it is just another aspect of wealth inequality that pretenders can outbid sincere small business operators. In my neighborhood we had a prominent corner store that was apparently vacant but actually had been leased by a restaurant that then spent 7 years intermittently remodeling the interior. Of course all the local NIMBYs spent the entire 7 years shouting about developers, but it wasn't their fault really.
tigranbs•35m ago
Living in SoCal, I almost always prefer to order online. Most local businesses are losing to their e-commerce competitors; no wonder commercial spaces are empty.

I have a side business of a small e-commerce shop. I would consider having physical space just for the sake of luxury, but now I would rather spend that monthly rent on marketing online rather than paying for physical space.

IMHO, that's what is happening. Bank problems or anything else are secondary; if it were profitable to be at the physical location for the businesses, other factors would vanish.

roughly•29m ago
So the problem here is the banks wrote their loans stupidly and both the bank and the property owner's willing and able to burn money to keep those chickens from coming home to roost, which has an enormous social cost on small business owners, citizens, and other businesses in the area, but the article concludes we can't really do anything about it because it might make the banks sad and cause the renegotiation of a bunch of those shitty contracts.

Since when did "taking a loss" get written out of the definition of "investing"?

jrjeksjd8d•27m ago
TFA seems to claim that the benefits of "nice buildings" outweigh the externalities of desolate, character-less street levels in cities. It doesn't seem very on brand for Strong Towns.

This phenomenon is going on in the downtown of my city - decreased foot traffic leads to tenants leaving, and the cycle continues. It's a miserable place to live or work that basically becomes a ghost town at 5pm. They're trying to do some office-to-residential conversions, but they're not very desirable because the entire neighborhood feels hollow and abandoned.

Instead of delaying these defaults and accumulating systemic risk until there's a massive correction, someone should be enforcing accounting that marks to market the actual rental value. That would force banks to be honest about the real level of risk on their balance sheets.

Jblx2•26m ago
If you can pretend that 50% occupancy @ $500k per year total rent is a temporary market slump, why can't you also pretend that 100% occupancy at $700k in rent is also a temporary market slump?
mekdoonggi•1m ago
Empty unit? The right tenant is coming any day now. Rented unit? Can't be rented to imaginary rich/stupid people.
nullocator•1m ago
This also confused me, especially since we know that over time rents would be raised so maybe in a few years you do hit the target of a million?
arjie•20m ago
Okay, the problem is ultimately that banks are constrained in the Loan-To-Value ratio they can have, but the value is something they can arbitrarily determine. They're incentivised to make the loan, and the person buying the property is also incentivised to do this, so they use the lever they have: they make up the value such that the loan can be made.

Perhaps if we split off commercial lending arms, allowed them unbounded LTVs, and then allowed them to fail we would get better performance?

It does seem like a pretty complicated problem. We want banks to be reliable, we don't have a pricing mechanism because the market is illiquid, and we have incentives to keep the Potemkin story alive.

mekdoonggi•19m ago
Startup Idea: My company will lease your space for whatever price you want. Then we sub-lease your building at the market rate. We charge the different between the market rate for your building and what you want to charge + a small fee. That way your property retains it's "original" value, but actually gets rented out.

Everyone (especially us) wins!

slater•17m ago
Sounds great! I'll charge you $100 per sqft, and you can sublease it at the current market rate, which is $5 per sq ft.
mekdoonggi•15m ago
Perfect. That'll be $96 + tip.
johnecheck•7m ago
That's unbelievably stupid. But then again, so is not renting out the space at the market rate so you can pretend it's worth more than it really is. So... good luck, I guess?
lordnacho•17m ago
It always bothered me that certain things are not marked to market. It's pretty much the point of financializing the economy, that you can then get a current value for things, instead of being able to pretend everything is fine.

The problem is that if you don't update values continuously, you are surprised when you finally are forced to. Some stock on the public market that isn't doing well goes from 100 to 90, 80, 70... etc, and people thinking about the stock have to make decisions accordingly.

A private loan against that business can sit at 100 until the company decides it can't pay, and suddenly the loan is worth 20.

jayd16•7m ago
Why can you bullshit about an empty building but not a temporarily low rent building? Why doesn't this just lead to "Month-to-month and Pretend"?