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Finland Gave Two Groups Identical Payments. One Saw 33% Better Mental Health

https://scottsantens.substack.com/p/finland-basic-income-experiment-mental-health-ubi
9•2noame•1h ago

Comments

mytailorisrich•1h ago
> and satisfy bureaucrats

That's an unnecessary quip as that's not the point of checks.

It's not surprising that if unemployed people receive benefits with no strings attached their "mental health" is better since it removes pressure to find a job.

> It was the unconditionality itself—the simple act of trusting people with resources, without surveillance or judgment, without hoops to jump through or forms to fill out—that created these dramatic improvements in psychological well-being.

It not about trusting people with the money they are given.

The usual checks are because people are expected to earn a living by themselves and unemployment benefits are only meant to help them while they can't and are looking for a job. It is not meant to enable a life-style, which is what unconditionality can lead to.

> the conditions we attach to welfare aren’t just bureaucratic inconveniences. They are active harms. They create stress, anxiety, and psychological damage that persists even when the financial support is adequate.

Oh dear... This reads like a parody at that point.

An useful measurement would be to see which group, if any, found a job quicker. A finding that conditionality does not speed things up would be noteworthy and helpful, a finding that people feel better when they get money every month unconditionally isn't.

toss1•17m ago
>>since it removes pressure to find a job.

NO, it does more than that. 1) It removes pressure to find a job on the schedule and expectations of the overseers. 2) It allows the recipient to start work even at a lower-level job without losing out. 3) It allows time for the recipient to find a job that actually suits them and their employer rather than taking the first thing that comes along out of desperation and pressure.

>>expected to earn a living by themselves and unemployment benefits

This is not testing "unemployment benefits", it is testing UBI

>> not meant to enable a life-style

An income of €560 per month, about $20/day, is hardly a lifestyle; it is enough to stay out of the gutter. This is only giving to people who do not have savings a sliver of the resources available to people sufficiently fortunate enough to have education and savings to fall back on.

It shows many of the differences in poverty are not due to any kind of merit/demerit, but simply lack of funds.

>>An useful measurement would be

Yes, that would be a DIFFERENT useful measurement. But to ignore the mental health aspects is to ignore real harms to both the people themselves and to the larger society, such as reduced isolation and crime, healthier communities, etc. Much of this was addressed by other experiments later in the article, which you either failed to read or intentionally ignored.

The entire point of the studies and article wasn't your trivial "who gets a job fastest (any job, no matter how ill-suited or temporary)", but the effects of payments vs bureaucracy.

The actual evidence is massively piling up that eliminating a patriarchal bureaucracy, means testing, and all this other govt overhead and simply giving everyone just-above-poverty-level income, will dramatically improve society, and it will be far more effective than all the layers of bureaucracy which not only add overhead, cost to the taxpayer, but also actual harm.

kruffalon•15m ago
Well, unemployment benefits are also meant to protect your job.

As in you, the currently employed person.

egberts1•14m ago
Need further breakdown on why those got happier without condition.

It could be IQ, cultural-specific, polarized against authority, much of which deserve monitoring.

I do not think it is a cost-effective way for working population to fund this "freestyle" living unless society gets something from the idles.

Otherwise, like a professor giving out highest grade of a student to rest of the class, that too shall normalizes ...." at the lowesr level.

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