Yes, absolutely. It isn't pleasant to think about, but laws and regulations are meaningless if they aren't based on actual numbers. If I wanted to propose some new feature at work, people would understandably want to see some numbers and not just “feels nice” lol
With seat pitches so tight these days, the idea that an evacuation can be done by unprepared people in 90 seconds is a pipedream, even before taking into consideration people trying to get their luggage.
The proper response to anyone doing this is jail time and a flight ban. The person with a bag delayed everyone by seconds. The person having an emotional breakdown will cost folks minutes.
> After drilling into passengers nonstop to never leave their bags unattended is it any surprise passengers don't leave their bags unattended?
That's while going to your flight in an airport. I don't think anyone confuses the situations.
I’d speculate that Japanese passengers expect to promptly get their stuff back while North Americans know they are effectively throwing it in the garbage, and so are more tempted to grab a few things.
I don’t think people should grab their bags in an emergency, but it’s amazing to me that airlines act like they can’t even understand why people do. It feels like common sense about a low trust society, and airlines do nothing whatsoever to engender trust otherwise.
If the plane has crashed and people are fleeing for their lives, I doubt people expect to get their bags back.
Unless I actually think I'm going to die, i.e. if it feels like it's more cautionary, I'd be very tempted to grab my essentials.
Trust is absolutely the thing that needs to be built. Trust that I'm going to be taken care of, trust that I'm not going to have visa issues without any ID, trust that I'm going to be compensated, fast, if I don't get my expensive possessions back.
> Unless I actually think I'm going to die ...
I think those are the situations they are talking about.
The idea that it's ok to risk life and limb for possessions, because the airline hasn't been trustworthy, seems to me to be part of the trend of absurd victimhood and its omnipresent flip side, lack of personal responsibility. If I risk life and limb for posssessions, that's on me and me only.
I'd prefer not to go into extensive detail, but I was once a passenger involved in a shipwreck where I did not trust the crew or the country we were in, and it was a somewhat similar situation of needing to get off the ship immediately, with the implication that everything should be left behind.
Disregarding that and instead grabbing my small backpack with a satellite phone and cell phone, a GPS system and camera, my passport, a jacket, and similar items was, in hindsight, a very good decision. Without that bag, we would have been in a very sketchy situation, entirely under the control of the crew and shipowner, in a corrupt country where the shipowner was well-connected.
Depending on the situation, it's not necessarily a matter of compensation for expensive possessions. Do you have any means of outside communication that isn't controlled by a group that might not have your best interests in mind? Do you have any alternative (eg, communication, documentation, or means of payment) if they decide to make your treatment dependent on what you are willing to sign, or if they decide to simply abandon you, or worse? Even during the emergency itself: is the emergency equipment that is supposed to be there going to be there? Is it going to be functional? Do you trust the crew to actually help you?
With all that said: going for an overhead bag in an emergency on a plane is ridiculous and dangerous; if something is so critical, it would make more sense to have it in a pocket (to be fully compliant), or at least immediately accessible in a small bag.
Keep an eye out for one - the long ones are not easy to find, and the company that made mine is out of business. Example: https://www.leatherology.com/products/zip-around-travel-wall... (no knowledge about the company or the product, just what I found with a quick search).
If this behaviour were isolated, this hypothesis would make sense. Given it exists in a broader context of Japanese altruism, I’d say it’s just a fitness advantage to having a high-trust, rule-following society.
If you remember the "Miracle on the Hudson", they actually carefully dried everything and couriered it back to the owners. Far beyond what I would expect.
The other hypothesis is that some cultures may be more attached to things. Yet another is that some cultures might have problems following orders.
Baggage handling should be controlled by the FAA to ensure safety in emergency situations.
Lock the overheads? Maybe that will cause delay if people who keep trying.
Also, the same people probably take their under-seat bags. I wonder if that causes delay - maybe it takes up space in the aisle, which would seem to be a bottleneck.
I hope it never comes to it, but I would absolutely "move" a person towards the exit, if needed, if they stopped to get their bag, only to save the lives of everyone else.
A more comprehensive set of policy changes:
* All tickets required to include one checked bag in the fare. Less pressure on overhead bin space and less tendency to have one big bag instead of a personal item with important documents.
* Overhead bins lock during takeoff and landing. And it needs to be a sturdy lock, not something that a lunatic can pry open and entice the entire plane into trying to break their stuff out.
* Fine passengers that take luggage during an evacuation. $5k + the value of the item. That makes it so that even people with valuables should leave them behind. And people complaining about their $5200 fine will be mocked for risking everyone's lives for $200.
* Evacuation tests for new seating arrangements must assume that all personal items and accessible overhead items will be taken unless that is rendered impossible by policy or locks.
For example,
https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Pages/DCA00SS002....
https://trid.trb.org/View/2570651
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/research/med_humanfacs/aer...
I get the feeling that we are just waiting for some new regulations written in blood.
[1] https://www.ntsb.gov/safety/safety-studies/Documents/SS0001....
Nobody’s risking their life for someone else’s bag.
Because seconds count and lives are on the line, passengers should be trained to treat baggage as if it is radioactive during an evacuation.
My preference would be for a massive fine and one-year flight ban for the first offence, and triple that fine plus one year in jail plus lifetime for a second offence.
In all cases, you’re personally responsible for your injuries and those of anyone behind you.
If it's all gonna get destroyed no matter what, there's no reason even to try to take anything with you.
Same Govt: omg why are you acting like your carryon matters?
pseudolus•1mo ago