As a result, more used solar should become available on ebay. I'm excited to see what I can do on a shoe string budget.
There will at least be a lag.
https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits/battery...
You can buy a BYD HVM 22.1 kWh for 6000 euros now (£5200) vs powerwall 2 13.5kwh for 7000 euros.
(Yes, yes: insert Musk related joke here.)
Total price, 1600 euros. So close to the magical 100 euros per kWh. Driving it with some interesting combinations of Raspberry PI's and serial interfaces and custom written Go code, but it works... :)
You'll encounter stuff like: manual says use RS485 port on Battery for GroWatt inverter → need to use CAN port on Battery. Meter Port (RS485 [serial] over RJ45) wiring on GroWatt is unknown (A: white orange / B: white blue, cross them over). Dinky RS485 serial → USB converter needs a 120ohm resistor between pins for line termination. Growatt meter port expects a SDM630 meter, not a DTSU666 (hardcoded), so vibe code another emulator. DIP switches for RS232 connection need to be both on the ON position (undocumented). CH340 USB→serial converter for RS232 does not work, but one with a Prolific chip does. Etc. etc. etc :)
Oh, and the biggest one... I was expecting to be able to just send a command, 'charge at 500watts', now... 'discharge at 2000watts'. But no. You have to emulate a power meter and the inverter will try to bring the net power to 0. Fun! :)
Willing and allowed. In some countries it can only be done by certified electricians.
Feel you have more unknowns on the safety front? vs. the expensive off-the-shelf. [in the USA, it’d also be “fewer names to sue” in that unlikely tragedy of combustion in home, but no euro/kWh targets there]
This was indeed my greatest concern. However the battery came with pre-crimped very solid DC wires, and nice push connectors for the battery itself. The battery also has an integrated DC breaker (great!).
The system runs 3KW max, so I just added an additional breaker (with RCD integrated) in the conduit box. In NL this is something a DIY-home owner easily can do themselves :) (just use the right solid/flex stranded cabling for the connectors, etc...)
It’s been crazy seeing the western home storage market with €/kWh being more expensive than buying a BEV.
https://www.docanpower.com/eu-stock/zz-48kwh-50kwh-51-2v-942...
Then bought a 16kwh battery for ~£1500, installation was plugging in a positive, negative and ethernet cable and configuring the inverter to use the battery. (if my home insnurer is reading this, I had an electrician friend double check while helping with some other work)
Definitely recommended for anyone who likes tinkering, thousands cheaper than installer pricing.
I really need a solar solution but I feel so far out of my wheelhouse.
I am just wondering would stacking up batteries, charging them off-peak and using/selling back during peak usage be as good as this, or even better? Seems like this shouldn't be a viable scenario, but given the prices and idle capacity, it seems just investing in batteries and charging them at night, to be used/sold to the grid during the day would be as good as a solar installation.
Pure grid cycling is also frowned on by some utilities.
I mean a lot of companies already do this with megawatt/gigawatt installations.
The key is peaking and grid stabilization. If you're a huge provider you can pay for all your batteries in a year or two if there is some large grid emergency and rates skyrocket.
If you're a non-commercial user, it's going to be hard because the provider rates you pay/get paid are much more likely to be fixed at a pretty low rate.
Utilities normally consider disincentivizing this type of behavior from residential customers as one of the factors when setting their export pricing.
I'll also add theres some O&M coming down the line. Inverters @ year 10, small maintenance and Im assuming you re-did your roof before you installed. Anyone putting solar up make sure you do it at the same time as a roof because taking it down to redo a roof kills your economic value.
In the UK I would expect the roof to be tile, which lasts basically forever unless a storm hits hard enough.
I did have to have my panels taken down and refitted, at a cost of well over £1000, because I hadn't bird-proofed underneath them (wasn't suggested by original installer). So watch out for that one.
You really need to gamble on odds of replacing equipment being very low for it to make sense. And in practice most people I anecdotally know that run it, after 5-7 years have already done additional purchases. The payback time keeps getting pushed back to the point that when payback will happen your panel will be worthless in efficiency compared to new ones. At industrial / commercial scale it makes sense, but humans like to move houses, and do stuff in the houses and that messes with the payback plans at the individual level.
So either I was in the wrong countries or most people just gamble on the equipment lifetime, but for that I'd rather buy SPY calls, less drama.
I personally like simplicity, I'd rather have money in an index fund and just pay a monthly bill over having a complicated solar+battery+car charger install at my house that I have to manage through various apps and dashboards.
If it is about impact on the world, invest in a clean energy index fund. Large solar farms and neighbourhood batteries operate at a much higher efficiency than domestic installations.
> For example, CATL is one of four LFP battery suppliers at the Zhangbei National Wind-Solar-Storage Demonstration Project in China. CATL’s batteries are the only ones that have never been replaced, retaining over 90% of residual capacity after 14 years.
Batteries are not only not worthless after almost 15 years in service, they still have sufficient capacity to continue to operate. If you need that capacity back lost to degradation, add a battery ~15 years from now, they will only continue to get cheaper.
Solar tracking trees seem to be an interesting way to get wintertime solar way up.
16 kWh battery with all of the UL supported listings etc = $3300 [0]
13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall is $12k~$15k
You would get your return way back quicker.
[0] - https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/lithi2-16-battery-...
Alternatives: https://electrek.co/2025/12/28/opinion-its-time-to-start-rec...
This was back when they expected the batteries to plateau at ~80% capacity after a few years, and they had battery swapping on the roadmap, so they needed to plan for a future where they had a steady supply of batteries that car customers did not want.
The idea took hold, but the batteries lasted longer and swapping didn't pan out, so now they are competing with themselves for battery supply.
Your point that they are overpriced still stands though.
Honestly I didn't know this was allowed.
I recently got a heat pump and am on a time-of-use tariff (https://octopus.energy/smart/cosy-octopus/) and have been thinking about pulling the plug on battery storage for a similar purpose (charge during the cheap hours; run the house off battery during the day). I am currently using between 40-50kWh per day - anyone have similar usage to this and can recommend batteries for this?
kccqzy•1h ago
louwrentius•1h ago
That probably explains it.
lostlogin•1h ago
vel0city•52m ago
An average EV gets what, ~3.5mi/kWH? An average US car does ~12,000mi/yr. That theoretical average EV would then use ~3.5MWh. Two would be ~7. But this author is in the UK, where the average car only does ~7,500mi/yr or so or a little over 2MWh/yr. So for their two UK cars, assuming they drove an average mileage in an average EV efficiency, they would likely have used something like 4.3MWh/yr for their cars. About 20% of their total electricity usage. This drops a good bit if they're really getting closer to 4mi/kWh in efficiency, which is likely if they're not driving on many highways like one does in the US.
metadat•31m ago
bryanrasmussen•1h ago
thus perhaps leading to more global warming
Aboutplants•1h ago
lm28469•1h ago
pixl97•18m ago
How many sq/ft is the house?
Is it filled with windows facing south?
Are they firing a continuous laser beam at the moon?
2-3x usage is actually pretty typical when looking at a single house when comparing to average. It's when you start getting close to an order of mag difference that you're an outlier.
icehawk•1h ago
davely•1h ago
I live in the Bay Area, CA in a 1,500 square foot house and consumed 7.8MWh in 2025 and 7.6 MWh in 2024.
Digging a bit more into our solar system data: We produced a bit over 9MWh in solar each year and it looks like our Enphase batteries discharged 2MWh each year.
lostlogin•1h ago
I was stoked at the power saving from turning off an espresso machine a bit sooner, a swapping out a nuc to a Mac mini.
Maybe there is a bit coin mining operation in his basement?
cptcobalt•1h ago
I have 2 EVs (Tesla and BMW), an electric oven, and a homelab rack (but no HVAC), and my usage was 34.4 MWh last year — with 100% from Solar and Powerwall.
lostlogin•1h ago
I’m waiting on a quote for an hvac that uses its waste heat for the home hot water. Im irritated that I’m cooling the house, pushing out hot air, and heating water at the same time.
sponaugle•57m ago
lm28469•53m ago
All in one systems with water heating are way too complex and _will_ fail relatively quickly, mini heat pumps won't last 10 years, and by the time it dies you won't be able to find a replacement for your specific model
sponaugle•1h ago
Some of this extra is certainly my 6kw homelab + HVAC for that. ;)
micromacrofoot•1h ago
In 2025 I produced 6.5MWh (solar) and consumed 12.7MWh (excluding solar production); this is a family of 4 in a 4 season climate with electric heating and a single electric car.
That was my highest year over the past 5 years.
An additional EV can really add up, especially if both people have long commutes.
bz_bz_bz•59m ago
Given 6 MWh of exports with only 3.2 MWh of total solar production, they are cycling their powerwall to get paid for the fact that their off-peak rate is half the price of their peak export tariff rate which is inflating the number you're looking at.
UltraSane•24m ago
Dylan1312•11m ago
DamonHD•59m ago
https://www.earth.org.uk/saving-electricity.html
lm28469•57m ago
If you have a heat pump water heater and heat pump based floor heating you'll use 1/4th of the energy as the same house with resistive water/floor heating.
A house which barely passed regulation from 2010 will consume 5-10x the energy of a certified passive house.
etc.
That being said I think you have to draw the line somewhere. I'd much rather have inefficient appliances (resistive boiler/heaters) and be fully solar powered than spend 50k in heatpumps and other gimmicks that are rated for 10 years and cost a kidney in maintenance and the eventual replacement.
rokkamokka•52m ago
lm28469•40m ago
That's my reasoning my new build house with plenty of land. In other scenarios it might be more beneficial to go for them.
UltraSane•23m ago
lm28469•18m ago
subroutine•21m ago
pjc50•41m ago
I do think more people should consider mini-split reversible AC in the UK, but the subsidy system specifically excludes it.
ZeroGravitas•5m ago
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/discounts-for-families-to...
BeetleB•40m ago
lm28469•39m ago
No one is heating their place with air/air heat pumps besides americans who haven't figured out that heating spaces via air is shit tier in term of comfort and efficiency
Retric•25m ago
lm28469•21m ago
You can already do most of that with a passive heat recovery ventilation system coupled to a ground/water exchanger. All systems are independent and the most high tech equipments you need are fans and a water pump
UltraSane•21m ago
lm28469•18m ago
zdragnar•14m ago
doikor•10m ago
At least here in Finland a lot of people do. Very popular choice when replacing old oil furnaces (and as a "replacement" for direct electric heating offcourse)
Geothermal heatpump is something people mostly think about when building new.
Air heatpumps with the inside unit start from around 1000€ and 300€ to 500€ for the install. The price is mainly based on the size of the house (and in big houses you will need multiple or one with multiple inside units)
A fireplace for the couple really cold weeks to cut down the electricity bills are popular but people had those even before the air heatpumps so nothing new really.
Barbing•36m ago
Anecdotally, two of the smartest people I know love heat pumps—doesn’t Technology Connections too?
Was probably this:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7J52mDjZztolm28469•26m ago
hattmall•25m ago
youngtaff•19m ago
We still have an ICE car and gas central heating but our combined electricity and gas bill is around £140 / month
Plan to go to EV and heat pump in our next house though