I'm not sure why is it even controversial. Illegal immigration is a crime against public order, it just shouldn't exist, and potential perpetrators are best deterred by brutal persecution of those found.
ben_w•48m ago
> Illegal immigration is a crime against public order
I'm horrified anyone thinks this way.
I've heard it suggested that psychopaths simply treat everybody the way normal people treat the outgroup. My outgroup is everyone who has dark triad personality, not foreigners legal or otherwise.
And even if you're set on this, look at what work is done today by undocumented immigrants in the US, and ask yourself how many Americans will starve if this happened.
delaminator•38m ago
No Americans will starve without illegal workers.
If you don't believe in us-and-them remove your front door and replace it with a bead curtain and cook for whoever turns up.
ben_w•4m ago
> No Americans will starve without illegal workers.
US farm labor is heavily undocumented-immigrant-dependent. Estimates vary, but undocumented workers make up something like 25–50% of the agricultural workforce, especially in crop production. (In specialty crops this percentage can be much higher, but those won't matter for "starvation").
Remove all of them, fruit and veg production falls 15–20%, dairy & animal products 10-20%. Calorie production has higher variation in estimates, I've seen anything from 10% reduction to 40% reduction, but the whole "undocumented" thing makes it harder to be sure.
In any event, you get double-digit percentage price hikes, and a lot of Americans are already struggling with the current prices.
> If you don't believe in us-and-them remove your front door and replace it with a bead curtain and cook for whoever turns up.
You may call your country your home colloquially, but if you can't tell the difference, if you really genuinely can't differentiate, then you must accept that everyone who welcomes them into their country has already welcomed them into their home.
To your specific list, this sarcasm: sure, because there's no such thing as local sociopaths, I don't live next to a forest with wild boar that I've witnessed breaking into neighbour's gardens, I'm fully aware of local laws about professional cooking, and also I'm funded sufficiently to be a charity.
And for that last point, I will remind you that you've already used the word "illegal workers". They work. They pay for themselves.
aebtebeten•11m ago
0,47 * 0,59 = 28% of US voters, which is higher than the percentage of far-right MEPs in europe, but not by much.
anovikov•1h ago
ben_w•48m ago
I'm horrified anyone thinks this way.
I've heard it suggested that psychopaths simply treat everybody the way normal people treat the outgroup. My outgroup is everyone who has dark triad personality, not foreigners legal or otherwise.
And even if you're set on this, look at what work is done today by undocumented immigrants in the US, and ask yourself how many Americans will starve if this happened.
delaminator•38m ago
If you don't believe in us-and-them remove your front door and replace it with a bead curtain and cook for whoever turns up.
ben_w•4m ago
US farm labor is heavily undocumented-immigrant-dependent. Estimates vary, but undocumented workers make up something like 25–50% of the agricultural workforce, especially in crop production. (In specialty crops this percentage can be much higher, but those won't matter for "starvation").
Remove all of them, fruit and veg production falls 15–20%, dairy & animal products 10-20%. Calorie production has higher variation in estimates, I've seen anything from 10% reduction to 40% reduction, but the whole "undocumented" thing makes it harder to be sure.
In any event, you get double-digit percentage price hikes, and a lot of Americans are already struggling with the current prices.
> If you don't believe in us-and-them remove your front door and replace it with a bead curtain and cook for whoever turns up.
You may call your country your home colloquially, but if you can't tell the difference, if you really genuinely can't differentiate, then you must accept that everyone who welcomes them into their country has already welcomed them into their home.
To your specific list, this sarcasm: sure, because there's no such thing as local sociopaths, I don't live next to a forest with wild boar that I've witnessed breaking into neighbour's gardens, I'm fully aware of local laws about professional cooking, and also I'm funded sufficiently to be a charity.
And for that last point, I will remind you that you've already used the word "illegal workers". They work. They pay for themselves.