You don't have to care at all. It's just an odd blog post that just from technical intro to rant about DEI and censorship and back to technical details. And joecool1029 just provides more context to what was said in the blog post.
Here is how I set up minimal Desktop, WATCH 4 VIDEOS ABOUT HOW DEI IS KILLING OPEN SOURCE PROJECTS, and here is my loader.conf ...
https://git.sr.ht/~rabbits/fashware
About Nemo (Fran J. Ballesteros from plan9/9front) he has half as encuse as he grew up (for sure) under the Francoist regime probably from the loaded family side, and, thus, he had to swallow tons of literal extreme right wing ideology even at school (Franco's regime). But the point on being a conspiranoid about the Covid... I would expect more sanity from the mindset from a guy perfectly abled in algoritmics, math and by proxy, science. Echo chambers create these kinds of idiots even on really smart people (the far right in Spain used cult like mechanics too), and I'm sure Fran changed a bit over time for the better.
On the Cosmopolitan/APE person, I remind you that if you want to get back to Reissanance times, I'm a Spaniard, and thus, your whole ideology pales against the Iberian Humanism from the School of Salamanca, where at the time we were the Enlightened ones and you were just a bunch of WASP uneducated hicks living in filthy villages in the middle of Europe.
Back to 9intro, even if you dislike ~nemo, 9intro it's still worth to learn programming on 9front, it's a great book to share and learn from. If would be a waste to ditch it just because some old fart doesn't get into the times.
EDIT: ok, now I see ~nemo it's not that old, so a plausible indoctrination from the Francoism wouldn't apply there; but I'm pretty sure being a conspiranoid on Covid doesn't look like the normal socialization out there.
Which is a lot worse than the <1GB you'd get with well-optimized native tools, but try running Win11 with "only" 8GB RAM.
Frequently the issue isn't memory (I've maxed the memory out at 8GB).
Older systems have issues with composing the web pages itself. A lot of people blame JS, but a lot of the time JS isn't the issue e.g VSCode & Discord runs nicely on the laptop.
e.g. YouTube has a feature called ambient mode, this adds like a white gradient around the video element. On old intel iGPUs this absolutely wrecks video playback performance and you get about 15FPS video. Turning this off the video plays smoothly. The backdrop IIRC is a CSS gradient, the GPU/CPU doesn't have the grunt to render the backdrop gradient with the video on top at a smooth FPS.
So while you might have the memory for the extra tabs, browsing can be a sluggish experience because the GPU/CPU just can't execute the code on the page well.
(This would have been circa 2000, and I think I had to try a few different distros before finding one that worked. Also I don't think I did anything with it beyond Xterm and Xeyes.)
That was probably around 2010 or 2015.
Those images had to run on a thin client with 512 MB RAM.
I think I chose XFCE as the DE.
Then again, the X desktop was really minimal and I would use them mostly to code in C using a terminal.
Like in Sun SPARCStation ELC. No confusing colors or shades.
Which proves time travel exists, all those "two bits" references in old Westerns.
if you had a big enough framebuffer in your display adapter, though, X11 could display more than your main ram could support - the design, when using "classic way", allowed X server to draw directly on framebuffer memory (just like GDI did)
Back in the days when computers had 8MB of RAM to handle all that MS-DOS and Windows 3.1 goodness, we were still in the territory of VGA [0], and SVGA [1] territory, and the graphics cards (sorry, integrated graphics on the motherboard?! You're living in the future there, that's years away!), had their own RAM to support those resolutions and colour depths.
Of course, this is all for PCs. By the mid-1990s you could get a SPARCstation 5 [2] with a 24" Sun-branded Sony Trinitron monitor that was rather more capable.
[0] Maxed out at 640 x 480 in 16-colour from an 18-bit colour gamut
[1] The "S" is for Super: 1280 x 1024 with 256 colours!
With either 4 MB or only a 386 CPU, it was definitely crippled, making an upgrade not worthwhile.
https://youtu.be/Pw2610paPYM?t=72
But most 386 didn't have 8+ megabytes, and some 386 had a 286 like data bus, making it even slower. (386SX)
The 386dx could also use a full 32-bit address space, whereas the 386sx had 24 address lines like the 286. But again, having more than 16 MB would have been expensive at the time.
I benchmarked it for PC Pro Magazine when it came out.
We had to borrow a 4MB 386SX from a friend of the editor's, as we had nothing that low-end left in the labs.
In our standard benchmarks, which used MS Word, MS Excel, PowerPoint, Illustrator, Photoshop, WinZip, and a few other real apps, Win95 1.0, not 95A or OSR2, was measurable faster than Windows for Workgroups 3.11 on MS-DOS 6.22, hand-optimised.
When it needed the RAM, 95 could shrink the disk cache to essentially nothing. (Maybe 4 kB or something.) Win3 could not do that.
It was SLOW but under heavy load it was quicker than Win3 on the lowest-end supported hardware.
Under light load, Win3 was quicker, but Win95 scaled down very impressively indeed.
I also ran Linux+X11 on my 486 (for some grad work) with 32 MB, IIRC. ATI Mach32 graphics card, Nec 5FGe monitor (loved that one!), etc..
Before Linux, I was experimenting with Coherent.
But I don’t think I had much memory in it. I had ordered a fair bit more, but maybe only 4-8M.
I did get it to work with only minor difficulties, but man only the simplest of applications could run. The barebones basic GUI text editor that came with Ubuntu couldn’t even start up.
Coyuld anyone summarize why a desktop Windows/MacOs now needs so much more RAM than in the past? is it the UI animations, color themes, shades etc etc or is it the underlying operating system that has more and more features, services etc etc ?
I believe it's the desktop environment that is greedy, because one can easily run a linux server on a raspberry pi with very limited RAM, but is it really the case?
...all of those and more? New software is only optimized until it is not outright annoying to use on current hardware, it's always been like that and that's why there are old jokes like:
"What Andy giveth, Bill taketh away."
"Software is like a gas, it expands to consume all available hardware resources."
"Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster"
Sometimes there are short periods where the hardware pulls a little bit ahead for a few short years of bliss (for instance the ARM Macs), but the software quickly catches up and soon everything feels as slow as always (or worse).
That also means that the easiest way to a slick computing experience is to run old software on new hardware ;)
Or you can ignore all that nonsense and run openbox and native tools.
They did hack around this with heuristics, but they never did solve the issue.
They should've stuck with a reference counted scripting language like Lua, which has strong support for embedding.
I have plenty of complaints about gnome (not being able to set a solid colour as a background colour is really dumb IMO), but it seems to work quite well IME.
> Or you can ignore all that nonsense and run openbox and native tools.
I remember mucking about with OpenBox and similar WMs back in the early 2000s and I wouldn't want to go back to using them. I find Gnome tends to expose me to less nonsense.
There is nothing specifically wrong with Wayland either. I am running it on Debian 13 and I am running a triple monitor setup without. Display scaling works properly on Wayland (it doesn't on X11).
IMHO, I find the reverse. It feels like a phone/tablet interface. It's bigger and uses way more disk and memory, but it gives me less UI, less control, less customisation, than Xfce which takes about a quarter of the resources.
Example: I have 2 screens. One landscape on the left, one portrait on the right. That big mirrored L-shape is my desktop. I wanted the virtual-desktop switcher on the right of the right screen, and the dock thing on the left of the left screen.
GNOME can't do that. They must be on your primary display, and if that's a little laptop screen but there is a nice big spacious 2nd screen, I want to move some things there -- but I am not allowed to.
If I have 1 screen, keep them on 1 screen. If I have 2, that pair is my desktop, so put one panel on the left of my desktop and one on the right, even if those are different screens -- and remember this so it happens automatically when I connect that screen.
This is the logic I'd expect. It is not how GNOME folks think, though, so I can't have it. I do not understand how they think.
I've used Xfce quite a lot in the past and quite honestly most of the "customisation" in it is confusing to use and poorly thought out.
I've also found these "light DEs" to be less snappy than Gnome. I believe this is because it takes advantage of the GPU acceleration better, but I am not sure tbh. The extra memory usage I don't really care about. My slowest laptop I use regularly has 8GB ram and it is fine. Would I want to use this on a sub 4GB machine, no. But realistically you can't do much with that anyway.
Also Gnome (with Wayland) does a lot of stuff that Xfce can't do properly. This is normally to do with HiDPI scaling, different refreshrates. It all works properly.
With Xfce, I had to mess about with DPI hacks and other things.
> Example: I have 2 screens. One landscape on the left, one portrait on the right. That big mirrored L-shape is my desktop. I wanted the virtual-desktop switcher on the right of the right screen, and the dock thing on the left of the left screen.
> If I have 1 screen, keep them on 1 screen. If I have 2, that pair is my desktop, so put one panel on the left of my desktop and one on the right, even if those are different screens -- and remember this so it happens automatically when I connect that screen.
I just tried the workspace switcher. I can switch virtual desktops with Super + Scroll on any desktop. I can also choose virtual desktops on both screens by using the Super + A and then there is virtual desktop switcher on each screen.
I just tried it on Gnome 48 on Debian 13 right now. It is pretty close to what you are describing.
> This is the logic I'd expect. It is not how GNOME folks think, though, so I can't have it. I do not understand how they think
I think people just want to complain about Gnome because it is opinionated. I also don't like KDE.
I install two extensions on desktop. Dash to Dock and Appindicators plugins. On the light DEs and Window Managers, I was always messing about with settings and thing always felt off.
> I've used Xfce quite a lot in the past and quite honestly most of the "customisation" in it is confusing to use and poorly thought out.
In places, it can be. For instance, the virtual-desktop switcher: you can choose how many in 1 place, how many rows to show in the panel in another place, and how to switch in a 3rd place. This shows it evolved over time. It's not ideal but it it works.
But the big point is, it's there. I'd rather have confusing customisation (as Xfce can be) than no customisation like GNOME.
> I've also found these "light DEs" to be less snappy than Gnome.
I find the reverse.
> I believe this is because it takes advantage of the GPU acceleration better
Some do, yes. But I avoid dedicated GPUs for my hardware, and most of the time, I run in VMs where GPU acceleration is flakey. So I'd rather tools that don't need hardware for performance to tools that require it.
Here's some stuff I wrote about that thirteen years ago.
https://liam-on-linux.livejournal.com/33987.html
I really have been working with this for a while now. I am not some kid who just strolled in and has Opinions.
> The extra memory usage I don't really care about.
You should. More code = more to go wrong.
When I compared Xfce and GNOME for an article a few years ago I compared their bug trackers.
GNOME: about 45,000 open bugs.
Xfce: about 15,000 open bugs.
This stuff matters. It is not just about convenience or performance.
> But realistically you can't do much with that anyway.
News: yeah you can. Billions have little choice.
The best-selling single model range of computers since the Commodore 64 is the Raspberry Pi range, and the bulk of the tens of millions of them they've sold have 1GB RAM -- or less. There is no way to upgrade.
> Also Gnome (with Wayland) does a lot of stuff that Xfce can't do properly.
I always hear this. I had to sit down with a colleague pumping this BS when I worked for SUSE and step by step, function by function, prove to him that Xfce could do every single function he could come up with in KDE and GNOME put together.
> This is normally to do with HiDPI scaling,
Don't care. I am 58. I can't see the difference. So I do not own any HiDPI monitors. Features that only young people with excellent eyesight can even see is is ageist junk.
> different refreshrates.
Can't see them either. I haven't cared since LCDs replaced CRTs. It does not matter. I can't see any flicker so I don't care. See above comment.
> I just tried the workspace switcher. I can switch virtual desktops with Super + Scroll on any desktop. I can also choose virtual desktops on both screens by using the Super + A and then there is virtual desktop switcher on each screen.
You're missing the point and you are reinforcing the GNOME team's taking away my choices. I told you that I can't arrange things where I want -- even with extensions. Your reply is "it works anyway".
I didn't say it didn't work. I said I hate the arrangement and it is forced on me and I have no choice.
> I just tried it on Gnome 48 on Debian 13 right now. It is pretty close to what you are describing.
It is not even similar.
> I think people just want to complain about Gnome because it is opinionated. I also don't like KDE.
I complain about GNOME because I have been studying GUI design and operation and human-computer interaction for 38 years and GNOME took decades of accumulated wisdom and experience and threw it out because they don't understand it.
> I install two extensions on desktop. Dash to Dock and Appindicators plugins. On the light DEs and Window Managers, I was always messing about with settings and thing always felt off.
So you are happy with it. Good for you. Can you at least understand that others hate it and have strong valid reasons for hating it and that it cripples us?
> But the big point is, it's there. I'd rather have confusing customisation (as Xfce can be) than no customisation like GNOME.
Those gnome plugins I install and extensions I must have imagined. I am sure there will be some reason why this isn't good enough, but I can customise my desktop absolute fine.
> Some do, yes. But I avoid dedicated GPUs for my hardware, and most of the time, I run in VMs where GPU acceleration is flakey. So I'd rather tools that don't need hardware for performance to tools that require it.
I am not sure why you wouldn't want GPU acceleration that works properly.
Your examples of VM. Gnome works fine through in a VM (I used it yesterday), Remote Desktop and even Citrix. I used Gnome in a Linux VM over RDP and Citrix 2 years at work. It worked quite well in fact, even over WAN.
I don't care about what the situation 13 years ago (I dubious it was true then btw becase I was using a CentOS 7 VM).
EDIT: I just read the article. You are complaining about enabling a bloody checkbox.
> The best-selling single model range of computers since the Commodore 64 is the Raspberry Pi range, and the bulk of the tens of millions of them they've sold have 1GB RAM -- or less. There is no way to upgrade.
I guarantee you people aren't using these 1GB models as desktops. They are using this for things like a Pi Hole, Home Assistant, 3d printer, Kodi, Retro Gaming emulators or embedded applications.
People do run KDE, Gnome and Cinnamon on the 4GB/8GB/16GB models or buy a Pi400/500.
> I always hear this. I had to sit down with a colleague pumping this BS when I worked for SUSE and step by step, function by function, prove to him that Xfce could do every single function he could come up with in KDE and GNOME put together.
I was quite obviously talking about HiDPI support. You didn't read what I said.
This stuff works properly on Gnome and not on Xfce.
> Don't care. I am 58. I can't see the difference. So I do not own any HiDPI monitors. Features that only young people with excellent eyesight can even see is is ageist junk.
I do fucking care. I use a HiDPI monitor. Fonts are rendered better. My games look better than I run on my desktop. I like it.
I am 42. I can see the difference. While I am younger. I am not that young.
Why you are bringing ageism into what is essentially more pixels on a screen I have no idea. It is baffling that you are taking exception because I want the scaling to work properly on my monitors that I purchased. BTW my monitors are over a decade old now. HiDPI is not novel.
> It is not even similar.
It is exactly what you described. I literally read what you said and compared to what I could do on my Gnome Desktop. So I can only assume that you can't actually the describe the issue properly. That isn't my issue, that is yours.
> So you are happy with it. Good for you. Can you at least understand that others hate it and have strong valid reasons for hating it and that it cripples us?
No. You literally repeated all the usual drivel that isn't true (I know because I've actually use Gnome) and complaints that are boil down to "I don't like how it works" or "the developers said something I didn't like and now I hate them forever". It is tiresome and trite, I would expect such things from someone in their early 20s, yet you are almost 60.
Installing extensions is not customisability. It is code patching on the fly and it breaks when the desktop gets upgraded.
Not good enough.
> Gnome works fine through in a VM
Again you translate "does not do something well" into "it does not work". Yes it can run in a VM. It doesn't do it very well and it only does it if the VM is powerful on a fast host.
Just a few years ago it did not work.
> EDIT: I just read the article. You are complaining about enabling a bloody checkbox.
You didn't understand it, then. It is really about what settings to enable and what extensions you must install.
> I guarantee you people aren't using these 1GB models as desktops.
Then you're wrong. I did myself not long ago. Most of the world is poor, most of the world doesn't have high-end tech.
> I was quite obviously talking about HiDPI support. You didn't read what I said.
I read it. I replied. I don't care.
The GNOME developers destroyed an industry standard user interface -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access -- which I am willing to bet you've never heard of and don't know how to use -- just to avoid getting sued by Microsoft 20Y ago.
A bunch of entitled kids who don't know how to use a computer with keyboard alone and who don't give a fsck about the needs of disabled and visually impaired people ripped out menu bars and a tonne more to make their toy desktop, but they threw in features to amuse audiophiles and people with fancy monitors, and you don't understand why I am pissed off.
You ripped out my computer's UI and replaced it with a toy so you could have higher refresh rates and shinier games.
> It is baffling
It's only baffling because never heard before from anyone inconvenienced by it and never thought before of other people's needs and use cases -- which is GNOME all over.
> It is exactly what you described.
No it is not.
Tell me what extensions will put the GNOME favourites bar on the left of the left screen and a vertical virtual desktop switcher on the right of the right screen.
You didn't understand my blog post about GUI acceleration in VMs, and you don't understand my comments either.
I have used every single version of GNOME released since 2.0 and I know my way round it pretty well -- same as I am atheist and know the Bible better than all but about 3 so-called christians I've met in 6 decades. Know your enemy.
I have been getting hatred and personal abuse from the GNOME team and GNOME fans, every time I ever criticise it, for over a decade now. It is the single most toxic community I know in Linux.
This is nonsense.
1) It changes how it works to how I prefer it, so that is customising it. 2) I've used the same extensions for ages. Nothing ever broken.
Basically want you and a lot of people want, is that there are hundred of options setting trivial things. Ok fine, then don't use Gnome, nobody is forcing you to use it.
As I said I install dash to dock and appindicator icons.
> Again you translate "does not do something well" into "it does not work".
It seems to be that you are getting hung up on the word "works fine" and wanting to get into some stupid semantic argument.
I found that it does do it well. You didn't read what I said. I used it for 2 years. It worked perfectly fine during duration.
So I know for a fact that what are you are saying incorrect.
> You didn't understand it, then. It is really about what settings to enable and what extensions you must install.
I was being flippant when I said "enable a checkbox". What was described in your blog post I've done this in virtualbox myself in the past.
It isn't difficult, pretending it is is asinine. I haven't used virtualbox in years, but I am quite familiar with the general purpose from when I did.
> I read it. I replied. I don't care.
Right. So why are you replying at all? So why should I care about your opinion if you aren't willing to consider mine?
You said you were 58 years old, I expect someone that is 58 years old (and is clearly articulate) to behave better tbh.
> A bunch of entitled kids who don't know how to use a computer with keyboard alone and who don't give a fsck about the needs of disabled and visually impaired people ripped out menu bars and a tonne more to make their toy desktop, but they threw in features to amuse audiophiles and people with fancy monitors, and you don't understand why I am pissed off.
I have HiDPI monitors for work. You keep on making assumptions about people and then come to the wrong conclusions.
Also I actually have a blind friend and he says that Gnome is actually works reasonably well (he installed it in a VM on his Mac).
He says it isn't as good as MacOS and thus he still uses his Mac. But he used Gnome and Unity and he says they are "ok".
As for pipewire/pulse. I had some issues with it like while ago, but it all seems to be fixed now.
So I am going to assume that you don't know what you are talking about.
> You ripped out my computer's UI and replaced it with a toy so you could have higher refresh rates and shinier games.
This is absolute nonsense. I did nothing of the sort. I just customised the default UI that happened to come with CentOS 7 at work and happened to like it and usually return to using it.
Gnome actually known for not working well with games. I am actually making YouTube video about it. You have to install GameScope to sandbox the compositor.
This is another case of you not knowing what you are on about quite frankly.
> I have been getting hatred and personal abuse from the GNOME team and GNOME fans, every time I ever criticise it, for over a decade now. It is the single most toxic community I know in Linux.
Says the person that just told me he didn't care about my needs and whether my hardware works and then blames for something never did. The toxicity isn't coming from me.
BTW, None of this was done by me. I use gnome. I am not part of the community. I done exactly one YouTube video for a friend to show him how to configure some stuff in Gnome as he was new to Linux. Oh I think I once may have logged a bug on their issue tracker.
It seems to me that you are arguing with the wrong person. You need to direct anger elsewhere. I did find the accusations of quite hilarious. So thanks for the giggles.
I missed this the first time around. The fact that you see Christians as enemies (your words btw) is quite telling about this entire interaction/conversation we've had.
I honestly think that if you haven't learned why this attitude of your is a problem at almost 60 years old, I don't think you ever will.
I won't be responding to you again on any topic.
A couple of years ago I saw a talk by Sophie Wilson, the designer of the ARM chip. She had been amused by someone saying there was an ARM inside every iPhone: she pointed out that there was 6-8 assymetric ARM cores in the CPU section of the SOC, some big and fast, some small and power-frugal, an ARM chip in the Bluetooth controller, another in the Wifi controller, several in the GSM/mobile controller, at least one in the memory controller, several in the flash memory controller...
It wasn't "an ARM chip". It was half a dozen ARMs in early iPhones, and then maybe dozens in modern ones. More in anything with an SD card slot, as SD card typically contain an Arm or a few of them to manage the blocks of storage, and other ARMs in the interface are talking to those ARMs.
Wheels within wheels: multiple very similar cores, running different OSes and RTOSes and chunks of embedded firmware, all cooperatively running user-facing OSes with a load of duplication, like a shell in one Javascript launching Firefox which contains a copy of a different version of the same Javascript engine, plus another in Thunderbird, plus another embedded in Slack and another copy embedded in VSCode.
Insanity. Make a resource cheap and it is human nature to squander it.
Just a single retina screen buffer, assuming something like 2500 by 2500 pixels, 4 byte per pixel is already 25MB for a single buffer. Then you want double buffering, but also a per-window buffer since you don't want to force rewrites 60x per second and we want to drag windows around while showing contents not a wireframe. As you can see just that adds up quickly. And that's just the draw buffers. Not mentioning all the different fonts that are simultaneously used, images that are shown, etc.
(Of course, screen bufferes are typically stored in VRAM once drawn. But you need to drawn first, which is at least in part on the CPU)
If you get the timing right, there should be no need for double-buffering individual windows.
I really needed to save to buy RAM sticks back in the day.
sees lunduke
closes blog post
Is he ""bigoted"" ? :(
* Devuan: The Non-Woke Debian Linux Fork (Without Systemd)
* NeoFetch But in Rust and More Gay
* Chimera Linux is "Here to Further Woke Agenda by Turning Free Software Gay"
* Are Jews the Cause of DEI in Big Tech?
Yeah .. I did not watch a single video of his. But just from a short few seconds It's not anything I want to invest time in to see if he has a point or not. Life is too short.
FWIW, probably not much, he said he had a Jewish background ... in, like, the one video I watched and eventually gave up on.
apt-install --fuck-yes gay-rust-neofetch
I’ll look to migrate to chimera shortly, but only if it includes gay neofetch.
...errrrrrrrrrrrrr, plot twist, he is a jew himself, or at least he claimed he is.
Something changed in the 2014ish time-frame when it got more and more politically extreme.
The best thing to do with people like Lunduke is ignore them.
It's always horrible when your niche get poisoned by this rhetoric.
There are many people in and around tech that disagree with the direction. They want to pushing back against mega corporations, government surveillance etc. They see CoC, Woke as part of that corporate/government apparatus.
You can watch someone like Sam Bent's or Mental Outlaws YouTube channel and you will start to understand that attitude.
> It's always horrible when your niche get poisoned by this rhetoric.
Tech like a lot of areas of life has been hyper politicised. The best thing you can do is not to play the game at all.
How do I know? As a FOSS developer myself with a decade plus public history I also happen to know a few people running prominent FOSS projects.
He's burned bridges for no good reason. He doesn't care.
e.g. I remember he once claimed Google was censoring him when he was de-listed from search, this was way back in 2009. His site had a malicious iframe because the PHP CMS he was using had been compromised.
His politics are kinda irrelevant to me. There are people who are Agorist/Libertarian/Conservative tech influencers online that do decent and informative content e.g. Sam Bent.
And somehow you care so much you've created this account just to attack him.
I'd suggest going out for a walk.
The fact is that hasn't actually given much to the community and has been a drama, pretty much since his appearance in Linux land. People used to dislike him then and wanted him gone and this was well before the current culture war nonsense that is often seen on YouTube, Twitter and backwaters like Rumble.
> I'd suggest going out for a walk.
I go out for an hour walk in the countryside every lunch time. I am not sure what my exercise routine has got to do with criticising a long time troll and grifter.
Skilled enough but the main use is as a news resource like this. The guy ion the blog would not have found out about this unless Lunduke posted about it.
Do you understand? :)
He has made funny videos, it was fun to watch. Its kinda hard to enjoy them now after learning he s dumb as a rock and justifies killings if you are of tje wrong nationality
There's a real mean spirit in open source lately and a lot of it seems to revolve around political views. There's become this idea that if you and I disagree on politics then it would be impossible for us to write quality software together. It's damaged a lot of good will and cohesion that used to exist within the open source software community.
This used to be about making free software to people so that they weren't abused by corporations. Now it's about pushing agendas and creating exclusion criteria. There's only one group in this scenario that benefits from this outcome.
If you don't like Lunduke then you should recognize the factors that give rise to people like him. Unless your solution is to completely eliminate anyone who disagrees with you then your apparent mindset only furthers the problem.
I wish we could put all this aside and just enjoy open source again.
If someone disagrees with me on tax, foreign relations, government services, defense, etc policy, sure, we can disagree and still work together.
What gives rise to people like Lunduke is not a simple thing, and something I don't think society fully understands.
(And maybe it's true that those on opposite sides cannot work together on good software, but that's easily addressed since all FLOSS licenses include the right to fork and merge changes.)
Lunduke spreads misinformation. That's anti Open Source, anti community.
He doesn't. He just reports events as a journalist. He doesn't fight against open source.
Lunduke made factually wrong claims for hype. His mob are keen to attack Open Source developers.
Namespaces. It's been done already. Look into XLibre.
>Lunduke made factually wrong claims for hype.
Citation needed.
>His mob are keen to attack Open Source developers.
Doesn't own a mob, and never happened. Horrible accusation, by the way.
> Doesn't own a mob, and never happened. Horrible accusation, by the way.
Mob unable to response on technical question. To use logic.
> Citation needed.
His YouTube comment section speaks volumes. He manipulates technically uneducated.
Ah, the classic moving of goalposts.
I'll bite: It is far from impossible, and already solved elsewhere: Most applications do not need such functionality.
For those that do, provide mechanisms to request and facilitate access to such functionality when needed. Like portals do for other functionality. And a wrapper to request automatically for e.g. old binaries without source.
> (further slander on Lunduke and community)
Uncool.
You've just confirmed obvious. No way to improve security without breaking changes. And you demand mostly nontechnical users to blacklist applications. That's a recipe for disaster.
I kinda wanna try linux again...
My Alpine Desktop (Root on ZFS, Wayland/Sway) starts with about 550MB
It's like "your car is going to get dirty why even wash it?"
I just started it and loading my https://vermaden.wordpress.com/ page used 86 MB of RAM - a lot less then Firefox or Chrome.
I was able to keep in touch with my drug dealers and my girlfriend's friends (who were also all super hot) which was very important to me at that age, in an environment where you really needed a car or people who had cars to do anything with anyone worth doing anything with.
I got OpenSolaris booted on a Pentium II box that had 384mb of RAM then ran Openbox and a communications suite of SILC, IRC, Pidgin, Finch (a text frontend to libpurple), and some XMPP+OTR clients -- all in Solaris Zones to not get my shit wrecked by the same RCE exploits I was using against other Pidgin users (which seemed to be as numerous as exploits for the official AIM client). This was before Facebook.
Solaris Zones gave me that feeling of power over software that Qubes enthusiasts like to talk about, similar dopamine+endorphin flow to being a military dictator of a 3rd world country. Shit was so cash.
Thanks to Unix' elegance, I still had a life until moved enough herb to assemble another box I could run Counter Strike: Source (on FreeBSD, Cedega for the win) on.
> super hot girls
Yeah a San Francisco 7 was like an 8 in Los Angeles and easily a 10 in most towns (in those days).
They were prowling MySpace just as much as anyone else. You know what they're up to.
Back in the day I used to have a desktop running, with applications, in just 512KB. Getting that memory upgrade to a full 1MB was amazing.
And it was fast and responsive, too.
Soon afterwards I bought a Psion 3 which ran a multitasking GUI OS on an 8086 in 256 kB of RAM.
That space was shared with file storage in a RAMdisc.
https://phonedb.net/index.php?m=device&id=826&c=psion_series...
It was perfectly viable to have multiple apps open and flip between them. It ran for weeks on a pair of AA batteries.
Even better, my laptop at the time had only 128MB of RAM and ran Windows XP - a supported, albeit minimal, configuration. XP was bloatier than FreeBSD of course, and ran correspondingly less well, but replacing explorer.exe with a shell called "blackbox" - an openbox-alike - and carefully curating applications (e.g. K-Meleon instead of Firefox) rendered it a perfectly viable multitasking desktop. I have a screenshot from that machine showing an AIM window, an mp3 player, an IDE for an embedded system, and a web browser with the documentation open for that IDE, all running comfortably (on one of its several desktops - yes you could have multiple desktops on XP with alternative shells such as blackbox).
Computers now require approximately 30x the RAM to achieve similar levels of "barely viable" performance - 4GB is considered the absolute minimum for general purpose desktop viability. And qualitatively speaking, what do they do now, that my 2007 fleet did not do? It is difficult to say. One is led to the conclusion that something has gone terribly awry with resource consumption.
I have an ancient laptop from 2008 with 4GB of ram that runs a modern KDE desktop and related applications just fine that I use for troubleshooting stuff. However, the moment I open a web browser it basically falls to pieces.
I hate everything about this. :-/
Step 1:
sudo tee /etc/tmpfiles.d/mglru.conf <<EOF
w- /sys/kernel/mm/lru_gen/enabled - - - - y
w- /sys/kernel/mm/lru_gen/min_ttl_ms - - - - 300
EOF
Step 2:
apt install zram-tools
sed -i 's/#PERCENT=.*/PERCENT=130/' /etc/default/zramswap echo vm.page-cluster=0 >> /etc/sysctl.d/85-swappiness.confThere is bloat everywhere.
Try Alpine Linux, with Xfce which can do most of the same things. Then enable swap compression -- add this to the end of the kernel line in your bootloader:
zswap.enabled=1
This compresses everything going to swap, and decompresses it coming back: less disk reads and writes, and less space used.
Everything gets quicker.
Naturally this cannot work when every application is an instance of Chrome.
I am glad for the RAM prices, maybe this will teach a new generation on how to care about their data structures again.
I have been thinking that exact same thought recently.
I hope prices stay elevated for a few years, so people learn to be a bit more frugal with resources.
It isn't: you can still download the 2007-vintage FreeBSD desktop and run it in a VM today if you'd like. The CD image-files are quick downloads with modern broadband speeds. Prepare to be disappointed though.
My point is what you are used to is your reference point. The underlying OS isn't super relevant. On Linux, every distribution gets on par with each other eventually. On FreeBSD I used OSS and something like winmodem is just crap hardware. Nowadays my homelab and desktop have 64 GB RAM, while my MBP (M1Pro) only has 16 GB RAM which is the same as its successor (MBP 2015 with 16 GB RAM). Do I use all of that? Not really, but the main culprit is browser(s) (which includes apps these days). Curious if you can play Steam games well on FreeBSD. FreeBSD has a couple of neat things (tho ZFS is now better on Linux). I've always preferred PF to IPT.
Across multiple monitors my desktop is 6400x2160, which at 32 bits comes to 55MB.
Considering memory is slow and GPU compute these days is cheap maybe it would make sense to relayout and rerender things each frame directly into screen buffer instead of keeping the window surface buffers resident. That would require rewriting quite a lot of things though.
Not sure what you mean specifically by "need" in "need ... to do compositing". Compositing is just a way (e.g. rerender only on changes, cache results) of running a desktop environment. Strictly speaking you don't need compositing, you can just use immediate mode across the DE and apps.
The tradeoff of course is that if an app is lagging you get a blank rectangle instead of a frozen picture. Well not quite 0 or 1. You can cache lowres and/or compressed frozen picture periodically to improve UX.
What if you want to smoothly slide an app window over to a second monitor with a different pixel density? That's admittedly a very rare thing, but some people seem to be obsessed with it and insist that it must work. You either have to compose some window surface, or just use clean vector rendering throughout.
I have a hope for the whole idea, because imo it could significantly improve text rendering in VR by passing or allowing realtime access to the projection matrix along with the areas to render to. Regular VR compositing distorts text and vector graphics due to reprojection.
Plus, as noted above in VRAM speed vs GPU compute speeds, it might actually be faster and more power efficient overall if done right. See e.g. the famous Windows Terminal optimization issue with glyph atlas caching and object reuse.
Those screenshots also contain the RSS, as luck would have it.
34MiB when on the desktop (clean), running X.org, AwesomeWM and xcompmgr (for compositing). Screenshot: https://github.com/aktau/awesome/blob/master/screenshots/200...
57MiB with a couple of applications open. From memory: urxvt running htop, thunar (XFCE file manager) and the Mirage image viewer (which is Python, not otherwise known for efficiency). Screenshot: https://github.com/aktau/awesome/blob/master/screenshots/200...
Nowadays, even with a tiling WM that's supposed to be lightweight (say: Sway), the minimum appears to be well over 300MiB (see https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1njecy5/wayland_comp...). GNOME 49 takes up around 1GiB last time I tried it (NixOS). Interestingly https://www.reddit.com/r/swaywm/comments/oghner/how_does_the... from 5 years ago mentions Sway only using 115MiB. What happened?
Theories I have:
- 32-bit to 64-bit means all points are double the size. That would account for something.
- Wayland vs X11. I should compare Sway versus X.org+i3.
- General library and system daemon bloat.
Imustaskforhelp•2w ago
It's truly the most minimalist gui option just out there. It uses flwm & there own iirc very minimalist xorg server but most apps usually work
The one issue I have is that I can't copy paste text or do some simple stuff like moving my mouse on some text but aside from that, Tinycorelinux's pretty good
eth0up•2w ago
I'm using Void with 24gb ddr5 and frequently get system freezes during high productivity. Browser tabs in the background are often contributors, but working with openshot or odb crashes often.
I have several old nuc's and I might try tinycore on one. What do you or most others use it for, primarily?
Imustaskforhelp•2w ago
> I'm using Void with 24gb ddr5 and frequently get system freezes during high productivity. Browser tabs in the background are often contributors, but working with openshot or odb crashes often.
Kdenlive's' pretty good for what its worth and I use Archlinux/cachy on an 8 gig system and browser tabs aren't that often atleast in here
> I have several old nuc's and I might try tinycore on one. What do you or most others use it for, primarily?
I used it to revive my 15 year old laptop and even ran complete modern firefox on it (its specs are 1 gigs 32 bit ram simple mini laptop) and ran wifi and ran firefox and ran pomodorokitty on it and I can sort of treat it as a second monitor
It's battery is removable so I am gonna change its battery as currently the setup takes time to install and I have to install it everytime I open/it shuts down which can happen quite a lot if I don't have it plugged in so currently its shutdown for over a month but I really liked the tinkering I did with when I ran pomodorokitty on it
fenykep•2w ago
https://wiki.tinycorelinux.net/doku.php?id=wiki:persistence_...
Imustaskforhelp•2w ago
yes I probably could do that and most likely would on the laptop but I really wanted to tinker with tinycore a lot first so I was using the non persistence mode
I will probably do it later when I replace my old mini laptop's battery with a new (I think it costs less than a $ or so I have heard) but the procastination aspect is gonna have me do it to find a good shop around me to have the part etc. to probably and I am thinking of doing it after a few months but the mini laptop's still in my room :) (all be it off)
zozbot234•2w ago
eth0up•2w ago
duffyjp•2w ago
Buying more ram is no longer an option, so I added a 128gb swap partition on nvme. I incorrectly assumed with 64gb I didn't even need swap. No crashes since.
If you don't want to move partitions around, you can add a swap file. ChatGPT or whatever can give instructions.
dizhn•2w ago
eth0up•1w ago
dizhn•1w ago
duffyjp•1w ago
I have a free m.2 slot and may get a cheap optane drive and use that as SWAP. I've read they're not as fast as marketed for this, but at least I wouldn't have to worry about about wearing out my SSD.
eth0up•1w ago
knowitnone3•2w ago
al_borland•2w ago
It worked ok, but had a bit of a learning curve. I also had to run a couple commands every time I booted it up if I wanted to connect to wifi. I tried to get this to happen automatically, but wasn't having much luck. The password for the network also gets stored in plain text, so there was that. I didn't spend too much time on it, since it seemed like it was ultimately headed for the recycle bin and they just wanted to make sure none of their data was there, but thought if it worked decently well, maybe it could still be kept around and used.
user3939382•2w ago
entropicdrifter•2w ago
kevin_thibedeau•2w ago
With pure X11 you copy paste via primary selection and middle click.
Imustaskforhelp•2w ago
I don't know if tinycore supports this. This was my biggest grievance because I had to create tmp files paste into it and then cat into it or something to work with this pain (which I feel like is pretty fixable/ maybe a skill issue from my side and honestly wishing for me to learn how to fix it)
knowitnone3•2w ago
Imustaskforhelp•2w ago
hun3•2w ago