And we are looking for senior researchers to join us, see https://x.com/jvanegue/status/2004593740472807498
I'm confused.
edit: I had to dig into the author's publication list:
https://joomy.korkutblech.com/papers/crane-rocqpl26.pdf
Testing remains a fundamental practice for building confidence in software, but it can only establish correctness over a finite set of inputs. It cannot rule out bugs across all possible executions. To obtain stronger guarantees, we turn to formal verification, and in particular to certified programming techniques that allow us to de- velop programs alongside mathematical proofs of their correctness. However, there is a significant gap between the languages used to write certified programs and those relied upon in production systems. Bridging this gap is crucial for bringing the benefits of formal verification into real-world software systems.
The original extractor was to ocaml, and this is a new extractor to c++.
Simplifying a bit, a compiler tr(.) translates from a source language L1 to a target language L2 such that
semantics(P) == semantics(tr(P))
semantics(P) == semantics(P')
semantics(phi) = semantics(phi'),
I say "at least conceptually" above, because this specificatyion is often not lowered into a different logical formalism. Instead it is implied / assumed that if the extraction mechanism was correct, then the specification could also be lowered ...
My usual intuition is whether the generated code at the end needs a complicated runtime to replicate the source language's semantics. In Crane, we avoid that requirement with smart pointers, for example.
I think extraction goes beyond 'mere' compilation. Otherwise we did not need to program inside an ITP. I do agree that the state-of-the-art does not really full reach this platonic ideal
I imagine https://github.com/bloomberg/crane/blob/main/theories/Monads... is the functional specification of STM. I see that you use ITrees. WHat's the reason for not using Choice Trees that tend to be easier for handling non-determinism?
And we're not opposed to choice trees. I personally am not too familiar with them but there's time to catch up on literature. :)
ITrees:
CoInductive itree (E : Type -> Type) (R : Type) : Type :=
| Ret (r : R)
| Tau (t : itree E R)
| Vis {T : Type} (e : E T) (k : T -> itree E R)
CoInductive ctree (E : Type -> Type) (C : Type -> Type) (R : Type) : Type :=
| Ret (r : R)
| Tau (t : ctree E C R)
| Vis {T : Type} (e : E T) (k : T -> ctree E C R)
| Choice {T : Type} (c : C T) (k : T -> ctree E C R)
[1] https://github.com/bloomberg/crane/wiki/Design-Principles
So 'safely' implies somehow that they care about not destroying guarantees during their transformation. To me as a layperson (I studied compiler design and formal verification some.long time ago, but have little to zero experience) it seems at easier to write a set of correct transformations then to formalize arbitrary C++ code.
clarus•2w ago
Interestingly, this can be integrated into production system to quickly formally verify critical components while being fully compatible with the existing Bloomberg's C++ codebase.
InkCanon•2w ago
seeknotfind•2w ago
From theories/Mapping/NatIntStd.v:
One of the things formal verification people complain about is that ARM doesn't have a standard memory model, or CPU cache coherence is hard to model. I don't think that's what this project is about. This project is having basically provable code. They also say this in their wiki:https://github.com/bloomberg/crane/wiki/Design-Principles#4-...
> Crane deliberately does not start from a fully verified compiler pipeline in the style of CompCert.
What this means is that you can formalize things, and you can have assurances, but then sometimes things may still break in weird ways if you do weird things? Well, that happens no matter what you do. This is a noble effort bridging two worlds. It's cool. It's refreshing to see a "simpler" approach. Get some of the benefits of formal verification without all the hassle.
joomy•2w ago
The output you posted is from an example that we missed importing. It's also one of the tests that do not yet pass. But then again, in the readme, we are upfront with these issues:
> Crane is under active development. While many features are functional, parts of the extraction pipeline are still experimental, and you may encounter incomplete features or unexpected behavior. Please report issues on the GitHub tracker.
I should also note, mapping Rocq types to ideal C++ types is only one part of it. There are still efficiency concerns with recursive functions, smart pointers, etc. This is an active research project, and we have plans to tackle these problems: for recursion: try CPS + defunctionalization + convert to loops, for smart pointers: trying what Lean does (https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3412932.3412935), etc.
seeknotfind•1w ago
Have you considered combinatorial testing? Test code generation for each sample program, for each set of mappings, and ensure they all have the same behavior. If you look at the relative size or performance, it could allow you to automatically discover this issue. Also, allocation counting.
Hey also sucks you are not in SF. I'm looking for people into formalization in the area, but I haven't found any yet
joomy•1w ago
Our plan was to do random Rocq program generation and differential testing of Crane extracted code versus other extraction methods and even CertiCoq. But fixing a program and trying different mappings would certainly be a useful tool for any dev who would like to use our tool, and we should put it on our roadmap.
seeknotfind•1w ago
csto12•1w ago