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Nukeproof: Manifesto for European Data Sovereignty

https://nukeproof.org/
35•jamesblonde•1h ago

Comments

nkoren•1h ago
I absolutely appreciate and agree with the sentiment, but can't figure out what the proposition actually is. The thesis seems to be: "Here's a problem. We want to solve it." Aaaaaaaaaaaand ... that's it. Exactly how are you going to solve it? Or, if "exactly" is too much of an ask, could we at least have a "vaguely"? Seems like it needs more meat on the bones!
kevin061•31m ago
Well, then join and help! I joined, waiting for you there :)
tucnak•24m ago
It says so on the tin. "Escape the chokehold of hyperscalers" is all that matters, really. Everything else will follow nicely from it. Compute density is so good these days, you don't even need major datacenter investment. There are modular DC designs that fit in a shipping container. You tow one around, connect power, fiber, cooling lines (to intercoolers in another shipping container) and that's it. You would be surprised how much can be accomplished with so very little. There are many advantages to this approach, like being able to bring up SCIF-equivalent inspectable spaces on the cheap, but considering we're all probably going to war sooner than later, it might as well become necessary. This is akin to how SAAB, and perhaps to a larger extent Ukraine, have changed airplane logistics.

Unless you're a hyperscaler yourself, hyperscaling is overrated.

self_awareness•33m ago
The cookie banner code is broken, it doesn't show on my browser, making the website not react to cursors when scrolling, and mouse clicks aren't handled.

I only knew there is a bad cookie banner when I've opened the website in another browser.

Have mercy, webmasters.

Imustaskforhelp•31m ago
I really like this idea but I have a few questions.

Suppose I am an indian developer interested to work with European Data sovereignity because imo I value privacy personally just as much as the EU population and it would be great to be more connected and wishing to connect with them more.

So I have thought of using EU options in my servers/services if I use them for the most part and I can even swap out to completely European if need be.

So let's say to be a part of this? should I be an European company? If so, I even looked at it on how to establish a company in Europe rather easily (preferably a lean company) and It seems that Estonia seems the best way for me to create an EU company from my country without too much hassle but the costs of operation does feel like a lot for just starting out let's say.

I am also not sure about the fact that given I live in India, Some data sharing arrangement can be generated or would I have to actually migrate to say EU (which although I love EU, I currently appreciate my country as well and migration is a hassle right now)

I wish if such a manifesto could work for India and EU and a deeper integration could be made between the two countries about such tech related software or other as I have been a vocal supporter of European tech providers like hetzner,ovh etc. and they are even cheaper than american hyperscalers in many/most cases.

josephg•25m ago
At its heart, this is about Europe for Europe. People from other countries “contributing” technology solutions to European businesses and government is what got Europe into the strange mess they’re in now. And there’s been a long line of foreign - American - businesses which have promised that European data will always stay on European soil. And it’s quite clear that promise was not always kept.

I’m sure your desire to help is genuine. But Europe might need to find their own feet with an initiative like this before accepting help from foreigners.

whizzter•8m ago
I'd look at it in another way, hyperscalers exist due to code contributed from all around the world, often in the form of open source, Europe going closed and competing against the rest of the world (literally) isn't going to be a path forward.

Clients of mine are on hyperscalers due to the ease of deployment,etc but they are focused on lock-in, if ease could be attained in combination with portability then an ecosystem could exist where mid-scaler providers (that exists in abundance in Europe) could have a better chance against the behemoths.

kevin061•23m ago
I think you will probably find great difficulty.

When I worked at AWS, there was GovCloud, and only American citizens residing in American soil and connecting from American soil were able to give support to these customers. So even if you were legally authorised to work in the US and resided in the US, you couldn't work with GovCloud customers.

Or if you are an American temporarily residing in Romania or Canada, then you also can't work with GovCloud customers.

I expect the same situation will happen to you. But I am just speculating.

A European sovereign cloud is desperately needed for highly sensitive government, military, and national security workloads, and these must be thoroughly vetted to ensure compliance.

But for anything else, like personal e-mail or e-commerce? I'm sure there will be a lot of flexibility for non-European contributions, but it will probably be like it currently is: open source projects spanning the globe.

Imustaskforhelp•7m ago
I don't really intend my services to be used by EU Govt's but rather just individuals/businesses even and if the EU govt. actually requires it at that point, I genuinely don't mind travelling to European and living there if things do come out as this (if EU provides me & maybe my family a visa ie) & am willing to cooperate consultancy work with EU govt. or others as well

My focus was on the more of a Eu-alternatives kind of thing. I want my idea of privacy to be aligned and EU seems perfect for that. I want to provide sustainability in an idea & can establish an EU company or partner up with one.

My question is that I would still live in India for the most part starting out & I might be unable to make an EU company in the start too but if I am required, then I will do so

Aside from this, I am willing to use only EU services internally for my product as well as I mentioned.

is there any way that I can still align myself with the EU-alternatives mission?

Might sound a bit strange but I want to come into Eu but I can't because immigration is hard/expenses and I want to come to Europe when I finally figure out things/have a decent product in the first place.

Some people told me to create an EU company which holds an Indian company as a consultancy firm and you can be part of both and manage to establish a Data sharing policy given that I can access EU data from Indian soil so If I can do something about it.

I am not really familiar with EU laws tho so I am interested to hear more from people actually interested.

kevin061•1m ago
I think (or maybe hope) that open source is going to be a large part of the European data sovereignty strategy.

America has had decades to privately run and develop their own software alternatives and everything (Windows, Office, Google) is extremely deeply established now and hard to compete against. I mean, can you imagine building a proprietary x86_64 operating system from scratch not based on Linux? And writing the code is just a small part of the work. You also need drivers from manufacturers like Realtek and Nvidia. You need people buying your product. You need marketing.

It's just not going to happen. Open source is the only way forward for EU, in my opinion.

And therefore, I think you will be able to contribute as much as you want to these open source efforts. Even testing and translations are already great initiatives, but if you can also write code, that's even better!

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