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Satya Nadella: "We need to find something useful for AI"

https://www.pcgamer.com/software/ai/microsoft-ceo-warns-that-we-must-do-something-useful-with-ai-or-theyll-lose-social-permission-to-burn-electricity-on-it/
61•marcyb5st•1h ago

Comments

vdupras•1h ago
It seems like quite a qualitative jump in consensus. Wasn't the previous consensus "you're using it wrong"?
jsheard•1h ago
This still reads as "you're using it wrong" to me. Nadella's position is that AI spending would easily justify itself if only the plebs would use it as much as he thinks they should. If only the common man could see the prophetic vision of a coked out tech executive.
tony-vlcek•1h ago
> We will quickly lose even the social permission to take something like energy [...]

A way to drum up sense of urgency without mentioning that it's the patience of the investors (and _not_ the public) that will be the limiting factor here?

marcyb5st•1h ago
Similar to my thoughts. If we are still scrambling to find stuff the average Joe finds useful, the 100s of Billions poured into this gold rush are wasted (IMHO).
fuzzfactor•1h ago
Ideally, zillions of consumers have been languishing for years and when the time is right they're all collectively chomping at the bit when a new highly-affordable technology comes along that they just can't get enough of.

This isn't one of those times.

Spooky23•1h ago
People said the same thing 30 years ago about the internet.

I’m spending $400/mo on AI subscriptions at this point. Probably the best money I spend.

malfist•1h ago
And the people who bought a lot of shovels during the gold rush thought they were making the smartest money move
blibble•1h ago
that $400/month is essentially the introductory price, subsided in an attempt to grab market share

that $400 will go up by at least a factor of 10 once the bubble pops

would you be prepared to pay $4000/month?

2sk21•1h ago
This reminds me of the early 1980s, when home PCs were still very new, the main use cases that vendors used to promote were managing household accounts and recipes. These use cases were extremely unimpressive for most ordinary people. It took a long time for PCs to become ubiquitous in homes - until gaming and the web became common.
whazor•1h ago
This looks more like an attempt of gaining scarce electricity.

If a country/state has to choice of giving power to data center A or B, it makes sense for Satya to make statements about how only Microsoft provides the most AI value

tony-vlcek•1h ago
Well, even though electricity is a commodity it still needs to be bought. My point is that people funding this will run out of patience paying for the electricity long before the public/regulators will need to step in a decided how much of it you can buy.

I guess you could always just use a fraction of the billions in investments and whip up a few new power plants. [1]

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx25v2d7zexo

throwthrowuknow•37m ago
They don’t need to choose, just let them build their own power generation capacity.

What the hell is going on in this type of argument anyways? Utilities are normally private businesses so what does the state have to do with it?

malfist•1h ago
Also note that he's not saying Microsoft must find a use for AI, but that customers should.

He's blaming customers that his product isn't hitting the valuation he wants.

throwaway132448•1h ago
This is what happens in VC-driven hype cycles that are all about the technology, when VC orthodoxy is that it’s not about technology but utility (see PMF etc).
marcyb5st•1h ago
My take is that if we are still scrambling to find something objectively useful (as recognized by the median person) then we really are in AI bubble territory.

When non techie friends/family bring up AI there are two major topics: 1) the amount of slop is off the charts and 2) said slop is getting harder to recognize which is scary. Sometimes they mention a bit of help in daily tasks at work, but nothing major.

101008•1h ago
My non tech friends/family use AI to ask for silly stuff (they could google it), or just to ask silly questions and see how they react. We have a relative not that famous but maybe known in a niche and they spent like a whole weekendd sending screenshots of GPT, where they asked if this person was known, who was this person, etc.

They don't find AI useful, just a toy. Is their fault? Maybe.

blibble•1h ago
good luck with that
lvl155•1h ago
For 96% of the population, AI will not boost production. Generally speaking people are too stupid to use AI properly at least for awhile.
TwoNineA•1h ago
I really hate condascending and arrogant stuff like "Generally speaking people are too stupid to use AI properly at least for awhile". There are plenty of tech illiterate people that are far from being "stupid" and they might not care about or like AI. They just need to send emails to family, share photos and videos and have a video call from time to time. For them, AI is worthless.

But they aren't stupid. You sound like a tech bro.

lvl155•1h ago
I am not being condescending. I am part of that 96%. I am admitting I am too stupid to use AI as it is set up right now.
remix2000•1h ago
GenAI is only useful to bump terrible up to mediocre, so it'd be really stupid to spend time honing one's prompting skills. And as you noticed, so far 96% of the population agrees.
lvl155•1h ago
It’s really not going to bump up terribles to mediocres. It’s only going to mask the terribles and make it harder to assess intelligence and talent. Underlying human intelligence is not going to get a boost from AI. Intelligence is mostly innate. I would even argue that AI will make average humans marginally dumber for the most part.
Tepix•1h ago
After increasing the prices of RAM, GPUs and flash memory for the entire world, energy cost is next. Thanks AI!
TwoNineA•1h ago
But wait! There is more!

Copilot Notepad.

Copilot MS Paint.

Copilot Shoes.

Copilot Ice Cream.

psychoslave•1h ago
I'm still waiting for copilot copilot though
arkensaw•1h ago
> Copilot Shoes

LOL. "Looks like you're trying to tie those laces - would you like me to order you velcro?"

baal80spam•1h ago
And eventually Copilot Bluescreen.
jsheard•1h ago
> Copilot Shoes.

> Copilot Ice Cream.

Too late, parody is dead.

https://fortune.com/2023/02/18/shift-robotics-a-i-powered-mo...

https://www.unilever.com/news/news-search/2025/how-ai-is-tra...

mossTechnician•1h ago
Energy costs have already risen substantially[0], but the increase has been slower, and it's garnered a bit less media attention than the recent leap in PC hardware prices.

[0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-ai-data-centers-elec...

rsynnott•1h ago
Also, consumer energy costs tend to be hedged, so an increase in wholesale will generally only have delayed effect on more visible consumer rates. This was very noticeable in Europe after the Russian invasion of Ukraine; while spot market rates went very high very quickly, it took about a year for consumer rates to peak in most places.
MSFT_Edging•1h ago
They built an oceanic fiber termination down in South Carolina. Data centers are starting to move in. Now they'll charge you $12/KWh during your peak usage.
marcyb5st•38m ago
You really said 12 USD/KWh? Time to put solar panels/batteries over there. Even if you resell to the grid at 1/10th of that you recoup the investment in O(months) and not O(years)
agentultra•1h ago
> … it amplifies your cognitive abilities…

And yet studies show the opposite [0].

[0] https://www.media.mit.edu/publications/your-brain-on-chatgpt...

cptaj•1h ago
Study. Not studies. And with very limited methodology.
MadDemon•1h ago
LLMs and their capabilities are very impressive and definitely useful. The productivity gains often seem to be smaller than intuitively expected though. For example, using ChatGPT to get a response to a random question like "How do I do XYZ" is much more convenient than googling it, but the time savings are often not that relevant for your overall productivity. Before LLMs you were usually already able to find the information quickly and even a 10x speed up does not really have too much of an impact on your overall productivity, because the time it took was already negligible.
direwolf20•1h ago
This is partly because Google is past the enshittification hump and ChatGPT is just starting to climb up it - they just announced ads.
hodgesrm•1h ago
This. And the wonderful thing about LLMs is that they can be trained to bend responses in specific directions, say toward using Oracle Cloud solutions. There's fertile ground for commercial value extraction that goes far beyond ads. Think of it as product placement on steroid.
direwolf20•53m ago
You don't even need training — you can add steering vectors in the middle of the otherwise-unmodified computation. Remember Golden Gate Claude?
linuxftw•1h ago
You're overestimating the mean person's ability to search the web effectively.
jgalt212•1h ago
And perhaps both are overestimating the mean person's ability to detect a hallucinated solution vs a genuine one.
linuxftw•1h ago
I think hallucination is grossly overstated as a problem at this point, most models will actively search the web and reason about the results. You're much more likely to get the incorrect solution browsing stack overflow than you are asking AI.
avaer•1h ago
The difference is LLMs let you "run Google" on your own data with copy paste. Which you could not do before.

If you're using ChatGPT like you use Google then I agree with you. But IMO comparing ChatGPT to Google means you haven't had the "aha" moment yet.

As a concrete example, a lot of my work these days involves asking ChatGPT to produce me an obscure micro-app to process my custom data. Which it usually does and renders in one shot. This app could not exist before I asked for it. The productivity gains over coding this myself are immense. And the experience is nothing like using Google.

bryanrasmussen•1h ago
there have been various solutions that allow you to "run Google" on your own data for quite a while, what is the "aha" moment related to that?
avaer•59m ago
By "run Google" I don't mean "index your data into a search engine". I mean the experience of being able to semantically extract and process data at "internet scale", in seconds.

It might seem quaint today but one example might be fact checking a piece of text.

Google effectively has a pretty good internal representation of whether any particular document concords with other documents on the internet, on account of massive crawling and indexing over decades. But LLMs let you run the same process nearly instantly on your own data, and that's the difference.

dumbmrblah•57m ago
But before I needed to be a programmer or have a team of data analysts analyze the data for me, now I can just process that data on my own and gather my own insights. That was my aha moment.
MadDemon•38m ago
It's great for you that you were able to create this app that wouldn't otherwise exist, but does that app dramatically increase your overall productivity? And can you imagine that a significant chunk of the population would experience a similar productivity boost? I'm not saying that there is no productivity gain, but big tech has promised MASSIVE productivity gains. I just feel like the productivity gains are more modest for now, similar to other technologies. Maybe one day AGI comes along and changes everything, but I feel like we'll need a few more break throughs before that.
drzaiusx11•1h ago
If only search engine AI output didn't constantly haluciate nonexistent APIs, it might be a net productivity gain for me...but it's not. I've been bit enough times by their false "example" output for it to be a significant net time loss vs using traditional search results.
skybrian•55m ago
Using ChatGPT and phrasing it like a search seems like a better way? “Can you find documentation about an API that does X?”
lazide•42m ago
It will often literally just make up the documentation.

If you ask for a link, it may hallucinate the link.

And unlike a search engine where someone had to previously think of, and then make some page with the fake content on it, it will happily make it up on the fly so you'll end up with a new/unique bit of fake documentation/url!

At that point, you would have been way better off just... using a search engine?

taude•25m ago
how is it hallucinating links? The links are direct links to the webpage that they vectorized or whatever as input to the LLM query. In fact, on almost all LLM responses DuckDuckGo and Google, the links are right there as sited sources that you click on (i know because I'm almost always clicking on the source link to read the original details, and not the made up one
madcaptenor•12m ago
I would imagine links can be hallucinated because the original URLs in the training data get broken up into tokens - so it's not hard to come up with a URL that has the right format (say https://arxiv.org/abs/2512.01234 - which is a real paper but I just made up that URL) and a plausible-sounding title.
skybrian•12m ago
I haven't seen this happen in ChatGPT thinking mode. It actually does a bunch of web searches and links to the results.
sylware•1h ago
That makes me think about the development of much software out there: the development time is often several orders of magnitude smaller than its life cycle.
skybrian•59m ago
I use ChatGPT “thinking” mode as a way to run multiple searches and summarize the results. It takes some time, but I can do other stuff in another tab and come back.

It’s for queries that are unlikely to be satisfied in a single search. I don’t think it would be a negligible amount of time if you did it yourself.

binary132•45m ago
The difference is that in the past that information had to come from what people wrote and are writing about, and now it can come from a derivative of an archive of what people once wrote, upon a time. So if they just stop doing that — whether because they must, or because they no longer have any reason to, or because they are now drowned out in a massive ocean of slop, or simply because they themselves have turned into slopslaves — no new information will be generated, only derivative slop, milled from derivative slop.

I think we all understand that at this point, so I question deeply why anyone acts like they don’t.

HarHarVeryFunny•32m ago
> For example, using ChatGPT to get a response to a random question like "How do I do XYZ" is much more convenient than googling it

More convenient than traditional search? Maybe. Quicker than traditional search? Maybe not.

Asking random questions is exactly where you run into time-wasting hallucinations since the models don't seem to be very good at deciding when to use a search tool and when just to rely on their training data.

For example, just now I was asking Gemini how to fix a bunch of Ubuntu/Xfce annoyances after a major upgrade, and it was a very mixed bag. One example: the default date and time display is in an unreadably small "date stacked over time" format (using a few pixel high font so this fits into the menu bar), and Gemini's advice was to enable the "Display date and time on single line" option ... but there is no such option (it just hallucinated it), and it also hallucinated a bunch of other suggestions until I finally figured out what you need to do is to configure it to display "Time only" rather than "Data and Time", then change the "Time" format to display both data and time! Just to experiment, I then told Gemini about this fix and amusingly the response was basically "Good to know - this'll be useful for anyone reading this later"!

More examples, from yesterday (these are not rare exceptions):

1) I asked Gemini (generally considered one of the smartest models - better than ChatGPT, and rapidly taking away market share from it - 20% shift in last month or so) to look at the GitHub codebase for an Anthropic optimization challenge, to summarize and discuss etc, and it appeared to have looked at the codebase until I got more into the weeds and was questioning it where it got certain details from (what file), and it became apparent it had some (search based?) knowledge of the problem, but seemingly hadn't actually looked at it (wasn't able to?).

2) I was asking Gemini about chemically fingerprinting (via impurities, isotopes) roman silver coins to the mines that produced the silver, and it confidently (as always) comes up with a bunch of academic references that it claimed made the connection, but none or references (which did at least exist) actually contained what it claimed (just partial information), and when I pointed this out it just kept throwing out different references.

So, it's convenient to be able to chat with your "search engine" to drill down and clarify, etc, but a big time waste if a lot of it is hallucination.

Search vs Chat has anyways really become a difference without a difference since Google now gives you the "AI Overview" (a diving off point into "AI Mode"), or you can just click on "AI Mode" in the first place - which is Gemini.

eightman•1h ago
The use case for AI is spam
avaer•1h ago
Don't forget porn.

Though it's a use case people like Satya will want to avoid for reasons.

fkdk•1h ago
"Why d'you think the net was born? Porn, Porn, Porn"
Someone•1h ago
“Buy our stuff, or we’re seen as wasting energy and helping to destroy the world”?

That’s courageous from a CEO of an US company, where the current government doesn’t see burning more oil as being bad for the planet, and is willing to punish everyone who thinks otherwise.

reilly3000•1h ago
I get it. A stunning indictment of our times… but there is something useful AI could be doing that MS has dropped the ball on: personal finance management. I should be able to have copilot grab all my transactions, build me budgets, show me what if scenarios, raise concerns, and help me meet my goals. It should be able to work in Excel where I can see and steer it. The math should be validated with several checks and the output needs to be trustworthy. Ship a free personal finance agent harness and you have your killer app.

I think there are business reasons why they wouldn’t do that, and that makes me sad.

malfist•1h ago
Have you tried to get LLMs to do math or quantitative analysis? They're remarkably poor at it
coffeefirst•45m ago
I have a personal budget app and every so often I try and get the latest model to compare my data against the statements and find any discrepancies.

Every time it hallucinates visits to Starbucks.

I never go to Starbucks, it’s just a probable finding given the words in the question.

This should work. I want it to work. But until it can do this correctly all analysis capabilities should be suspect.

HarHarVeryFunny•19m ago
Maybe it's the model you are using.

Even a year ago I had success with Claude giving it a photo of my credit card bill and asking it to give me repeating category subtotals, and it flawlessly OCR'd it and wrote a Python program to do as asked, giving me the output.

I'd imagine if you asked it to do a comparison to something else it'd also write code to do it, so get it right (and certainly would if you explicity asked).

coffeefirst•10m ago
Maybe. But it’s always Claude. I even tried copying the text in directly to take OCR out of consideration. It still didn’t work very well.
api•1h ago
Energy doesn’t take “social permission,” but it costs money. Translation for this is: we need to make AI make money or the bubble will collapse.

I’ve been predicting for a while: free or cheap AI will enshittify and become an addictive ad medium with nerfed capabilities. If you want actually good AI you will have to pay for it, either a much heftier fee or buying or renting compute to run your own. In other words you’ll be paying what it actually costs, so this is really just the disappearance of the bubble subsidy.

Driver4732•1h ago
Wasn't Satya saying earlier that AI would replace knowledge workers? Now he's saying we need to find something useful for AI...lol. Quite the reversal.
glimshe•1h ago
When I read HN comments where people say "AI sux, AI is useless, AI is a waste of time", I think I must be living in a different universe. Maybe Hacker News is a dimensional portal between my reality and other people's.

Hi there, friends from another dimension! In my reality, there's a cold front coming from the north. Healthcare is expensive and politics are a mess. But AI? It hallucinates sometimes but it's so much better for searching, ad hoc consultation and as a code assistant than anything I've ever seen. It's not perfect, but it saved me SO much time I decided to pay for it. I'm a penny pincher, so I wouldn't be paying for it otherwise.

I think Satya is talking about cost/benefit. AI is incredibly useful but also incredibly expensive. I think we still need to find the right balance (perhaps slower model releases), but there's no way we'll put the genie back in the bottle.

I hope your AI gets better! Talk to you later!

vdupras•1h ago
Is your AI faulty? Did you bother asking it for a sentiment analysis of the comments here before drawing your conclusions? That's not what the comments here are saying.
an0malous•51m ago
Likewise I keep seeing all these comments on HN about how AI is revolutionary and all these AI skeptics are just haters. I really want to understand what this gap is between the believers and skeptics.

I have access to all the popular AI tools from work for free, I use them for the same cases you mentioned like search, consultation, a better StackOverflow, and autocomplete. It’s definitely useful but I would describe that as incrementally useful, not revolutionary.

Satya is saying that AI needs to start doing more than vibe coding and autocomplete, there’s probably half a trillion invested into the technology worldwide now and it’s not enough for AI to be a good coding assistant. It needs to replace customer support, radiologists, and many other professions to justify the unprecedented level of investment its garnered.

morelandjs•1h ago
There’s more to AI than foundation models. I think you are going to see meaningful progress on chore automation over the next decade through a combination of algorithmic and mechanical improvements, and it will measurably improve our lives. Recently got a Matic robot (awesome btw), and I no longer feel the need to vacuum my floors. It’s not life changing, but it’s an appreciable convenience upgrade. The capabilities feel like a peek into the future.
linuxftw•1h ago
Things AI is already better at than (many/most) humans: Customer service (chat, phone), writing software, writing docs about software, computer graphics (animation, images), driving cars.

There are plenty of uses for AI. Right now, the industry is heavily spending on training new models, improving performance of existing software and hardware, and trying to create niche products.

Power usage for inference will drop dramatically over the next decade, and more models are going to run on-device rather than in the cloud. AI is only going to become more ubiquitous, there's 0% chance it 'fails' and we return to 2020.

sjajshha•47m ago
> Customer service (chat, phone)

Only because companies have been cutting costs for decades here. This is not a good argument for AI.

> writing software

If you mean typing characters quickly, yes. Otherwise, there’s still a lot of employed devs, with many AI companies hiring.

> writing docs about software

The most useful docs are there because they contain info you cannot determine from the code. AI is not able to do this.

> computer graphics (animation, images)

If you are producing slop, yes.

> driving cars

True, but only because of its improved physical awareness. ie it’s a mechanical gain (better eyes, ears, etc) not an intellectual one (interpreting that information). Self driving cars aren’t LLMs and not really applicable here. Entirely different field.

> AI is only going to become more ubiquitous, there's 0% chance it 'fails' and we return to 2020

Absolutely true. But not for the reasons you think.

linuxftw•37m ago
Wrong on all accounts.
haritha-j•52m ago
Investor hype bubbles kill technologies. If we let tech mature at a reasonable pace, we would actually get there faster in the long run. There are real applications of AI that aren't ready yet. All the hype bubble has done is push out unnecessary and broken AI, eroding consumer trust, use up valuable resources, eroding public trust, hype up ability to destroy jobs, causing public discontent, and push out unsafe AI that has real societal harm.
shishcat•46m ago
I agree with this dicussion, AI should be used for improving, researching, and as he says, do something useful that changes the outcomes of people and communities and countries and industries. BUT IT'S SATYA NADELLA SAYING IT! The person whose company owns Copilot, Copilot in Bing, Copilot for Word, Copilot for Dynamics 365 Supply Chain...

With all this useless slop, he’s literally arguing against his own point.

kodyo•36m ago
"Quick, guys, find something useful" coming from a CEO who's bet his company on an idea should be a market top signal, right?

And no, I'm not saying the technology is bad. The business isn't going swimmingly, though.

JanneVee•27m ago
They have made huge investments into hardware so everyone is getting more expensive hardware, and now begging everyone else to make their investments worthwhile. Don't mind that they are driving up prices for hardware and requiring new hardware for Windows 11 upgrades. I'm suspecting that we don't have enough memory manufacturing capacity in the world to do both AI datacenters and replace all hardware that they made obsolete with their forced upgrade. AI didn't turn everyone into paperclips but it turned everyone to memory and AI processors in datacenters that can't be powered or has no useful economic utility.
Gazoche•24m ago
Evangelists keep insisting that healthcare is one of the things that AI will revolutionize in the coming years, but I just don't get it. To me it's not even clear what they mean by "AI" in this context (and I'm not convinced it's clear to them either).

If they mean "machine learning", then sure there are application in cancer detection and the like, but development there has been moving at a steady pace for decades and has nothing to do with the current hype wave of GenAI, so there's no reason to assume it's suddenly going to go exponential. I used to work in that field and I'm confident it's not going to change overnight: progress there is slow not because of the models, but because data is sparse and noisy, labels are even sparser and noisier, deployment procedures are rigid and legal compliance is a nightmare.

If they mean "generative AI", then how is that supposed to work exactly? Asking LLMs for medical diagnosis is no better than asking "the Internet at large". They only return the most statistically likely output given their training corpus (that corpus being the Internet as a whole), so it's more likely your diagnosis will be based on a random Reddit comment that the LLMs has ingested somewhere, than an actual medical paper.

The only plausible applications I can think of are tasks such as summarizing papers, acting as augmented search engines for datasets and papers, or maybe automating some menial administrative tasks. Useful, for sure, but not revolutionary.

croon•7m ago
The most statistically likely output given your diligently described symtoms could still be useful. The prohibitive cost in healthcare in general is likely your time with your doctor. If you could "consult" with a dumb LLM beforehand and give the doctor a couple of different venues to look at that they can then shoot down or further explore could likely save time rather than them having to prod you for exhaustive binary tree exploring.

This from a huge LLM skeptic in general. It doesn't have to be right all the time if it in aggregate saves time doctors can spend diagnosing you.

lunias•10m ago
They definitely don't build CEOs like they used to...
HarHarVeryFunny•5m ago
Interesting statement coming from Nadella - almost that AI is a solution looking for a problem, or at least looking for a problem that justifies the cost in terms of the resources (energy, memory chips, fab capacity) it is sucking up, not to mention looming societal disruption.

There obviously are some compelling use cases for "AI", but it's certainly questionable if any of those are really making people's lives any better, especially if you take "AI" to mean LLMs and fake videos, not more bespoke uses like AlphaFold which is not only beneficial, but also not a resource hog.