The UK continues to slide into authoritarianism. This is not something the people have asked for. Not looking forward to how this plays out if they get a Reform (far right) government next election, like all the polls seem to think.
blibble•1w ago
the problem is it IS something people have asked for
the average British voter likes the authoritarianism
OgsyedIE•1w ago
The polls are sharply delineated by age group, however. Giving the members of cabinet the direct power to order arbitrary criminal inquiries to be shut or created polled very well with over-40s and very poorly with under-40s.
kevin_thibedeau•1w ago
There has been a legitimate issue with local police not having the resources to investigate crimes that exceed their jurisdiction or expertise. Most notably the case with computer-based crimes. This is the response. Do you have a better suggestion?
jpfromlondon•1w ago
not particularly, ID cards effectively cost Blair/Brown their majority.
rayiner•1w ago
Reform isn’t even close to “far right.” Are they trying to defund the NHS? Get rid of government pensions? Immigration restriction isn’t “far right.” The sharp curtailment of immigration from Britain’s colonies was enacted in 1968 under a Labour government. In the U.S., sharply restricting immigration was a policy that prevailed during FDR, who was the most liberal U.S. president in history. “Far right” is someone like Margaret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan who thought the private sector could fix everything.
tialaramex•1w ago
I think Reform is best understood as the Temu Tory Party. What if you couldn't afford an actual Tory Party, but you saw this advertised for £0 on your phone ?
I think it'll be interesting to watch Tories who could never put together a PM bid that worked wriggle inside Reform to push out Farage. Farage is naturally the leader of an outfit like UKIP, actual Nazis in the trenches, led by a few people you can put in a suit who know not to do the salute and who make sure not to say the wrong thing on camera. But, he doesn't want to lead UKIP, he wanted to be Prime Minister, and that's a harder lift.
rayiner•1w ago
How are Reform like Tories? Didn't immigration massively increase under Tories? I don't know anything about Farage, but I doubt your comparisons are accurate. I've seen one video of him, and he came across as far to the left of your average asian leader on immigration.
tialaramex•1w ago
> How are Reform like Tories?
I think the problem might be that you don't know anything about this at all?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2yrjqp4zvo -- Suella Braverman, who had been Tory Home Secretary deciding on these policies you think are the opposite of what Reform stands for, defected to join Reform just days ago.
This isn’t a new thing either; Farage has been challenged over claiming to align with far-right Northern Irish Unionist parties like Traditional Unionist Voice while recording Cameos saying things like “up the ‘RA”.
The ignorance isn’t a mistake, it’s part of the brand that lets them spout whatever their audience wants ts to hear.
rayiner•1w ago
Several prominent Democrats defected to Trump’s GOP. Does that make that a “Temu Democratic Party?” Or is it just a sign of the ideological realignment that’s happening in conservative parties all across the west?
tialaramex•1w ago
I guess I hadn't heard this news. Who defected? I mean, you said "prominent" so presumably we're talking a few US senators or a Governor or something ? People I'd have heard of?
About half of Reform's parliamentary party were elected as Tories. Was Josh Hawley previously a Democrat ? Did Mitch used to be Bernie's best friend and then Trump swayed him to join the GOP ? Maybe Rand Paul or Tom Cotton ? No ? So we're not talking about the same thing at all.
rayiner•1w ago
Tulsi Gabbard, who was a House member and vice chair of the DNC, and RFK Jr., who is a Kennedy. In the other direction you have Michael Steele, who was chairman of the RNC, and Dick Cheney, who was the Vice President.
What you’re describing is just a party realignment. It’s a much bigger realignment than what you’ve seen in the U.S. for awhile, but every now and then when coalitions will break apart and reform. Many of the original GOP members were former Whig Party members (which was one of the two major parties that existed after the Federalist Party collapsed). Ir would’ve been weird to call the GOP “Temu Whigs” because they had a different coalition with different priorities, despite the overlap.
In the UK, it seems like Reform is prepared to moderate on the economic libertarianism of the Thatcherite Tory Party in order to bring culturally conservative anti-immigration voters into the coalition.
tialaramex•1w ago
I had heard of Gabbard. So that's one representative. It's not nothing but it's not "several" where I come from.
I can't count RFK Jr. I had never heard of him before the 2024 Election Cycle.
jpfromlondon•1w ago
Neither Thatcher nor Reagan are far right, they are Neoliberal and therefore centre-right.
rayiner•1w ago
They were both ideologically on the libertarian end of neoliberal, which is highly unusual. There’s no major political party anywhere in the world currently that’s as far right on free markets as Reagan and Thatcher were, except maybe Milei’s Argentina.
Reform’s nationalism by contrast is incredibly milquetoast. It wouldn’t even be considered right wing in much of the world. For example, if the shoe were on the other foot, and British and Irish immigration had reduced Bangladeshis to a minority in Dhaka, then the immigrants would be removed en masse (as the center-left government did with the Rohingya in response to that migration).
What do you think would happen in China if Indians and Bangladeshis mass migrated to Beijing until Chinese people were a minority? It would be a lot less talk and a lot more action than what you’re seeing from Reform.
rich_sasha•1w ago
It's weird. I would say politically, the UK has no aspirations towards authoritarianism. ANPR has been around for ages, but the state can barely enforce road tax payment. The police have no ambitions for a brutalised US style culture. Reform is a bit of an unknown, but even they started making murmurs about how Trump is taking it a bit too far.
And yet undoubtedly the UK keeps introducing these privacy-hostile mechanisms, and it's not even clear what for. There is no obvious reason, not a pragmatic one, not a nefarious one (IMO).
ronsor•1w ago
> the UK has no aspirations towards authoritarianism
I would say they're aiming more for a boring authoritarian dystopia than a bombastic one.
jpfromlondon•1w ago
All of the alternative parties are considerably less authoritarian than Labour who has always flirted with it.
That said I can't imagine any government willingly giving up the power grabbed by Labour.
pcdevils•1w ago
The Tories used new legislation to restrict protests, sliced away at union powers even introducing law stating the gov can force 'essential' workers back to work, created and pushed through the Online Safety act (then left labour to enforce it).
And that was only in the few years mess under May/Boris/Rishi
"Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022: Expands police powers to restrict protests based on "serious disruption," including imposing noise limits and start/finish times, reported the BBC.
Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023: Enables employers to mandate service levels during strikes in sectors like health, transport, and fire services, effectively curbing union power, notes Labour Research.
Public Order Act 2023: Introduced further measures against "disruptive" protest tactics, such as locking on, often used by environmental protestors, explain Sage Journals and peoplesmomentum.com.
Nationality and Borders Act 2022: Critiqued for undermining international refugee law and introducing differential treatment for asylum seekers based on their method of arrival, write Sage Journals.
Judicial Review and Courts Act 2022: Critics argue this act weakens judicial oversight, reducing the ability of citizens to challenge government decisions in court, says Zara Sultana on TikTok.
Online Safety Act 2023: While aimed at protecting users, some critics raised concerns about potential impacts on free speech and the regulation of content, suggest Sage Journals. "
jpfromlondon•5d ago
I could debate the severity or significance of some of the above, but even at face value these things are in no way comparable to the authoritarian bent of Labour and its policies, thus my point remains.
No alternative is as remotely authoritarian.
bloqs•1w ago
Paywall
janmalec•1w ago
Reader mode in Firefox worked for me, one click.
gertrunde•1w ago
"British FBI"...?
And what exactly do they think the NCA is?
[National Crime Agency]
On digging further: OK, this is not really creating anything at all, it's just merging the NCA and various existing regional organised crime outfits together into one body.
unethical_ban•1w ago
Epoch Times is not news.
direwolf20•1w ago
Is it legal for a private individual to roll out nationwide facial recognition in the UK? Asking for a friend.
spants•1w ago
"Roll Out Nationwide Facial Recognition" - so that is why waste-of-space starmer is in China
Eddy_Viscosity2•1w ago
Given the ubiquitous CCTV coverage the UK has and has had for some time, I would suspect they've had nationwide facial recognition for a while already. Just on the down-low.
unethical_ban•1w ago
UK has problems with civil liberties but Epoch Times is not news. You're more informed reading about Aliens from the tabloid at Kroger than reading this.
everyday7732•1w ago
blibble•1w ago
the average British voter likes the authoritarianism
OgsyedIE•1w ago
kevin_thibedeau•1w ago
jpfromlondon•1w ago
rayiner•1w ago
tialaramex•1w ago
I think it'll be interesting to watch Tories who could never put together a PM bid that worked wriggle inside Reform to push out Farage. Farage is naturally the leader of an outfit like UKIP, actual Nazis in the trenches, led by a few people you can put in a suit who know not to do the salute and who make sure not to say the wrong thing on camera. But, he doesn't want to lead UKIP, he wanted to be Prime Minister, and that's a harder lift.
rayiner•1w ago
tialaramex•1w ago
I think the problem might be that you don't know anything about this at all?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2yrjqp4zvo -- Suella Braverman, who had been Tory Home Secretary deciding on these policies you think are the opposite of what Reform stands for, defected to join Reform just days ago.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv9gyxgjjo -- that's Farage, only days earlier, insisting that his party isn't for failed Tories, like Suella.
It's Temu Tory Party.
tolien•1w ago
The ignorance isn’t a mistake, it’s part of the brand that lets them spout whatever their audience wants ts to hear.
rayiner•1w ago
tialaramex•1w ago
About half of Reform's parliamentary party were elected as Tories. Was Josh Hawley previously a Democrat ? Did Mitch used to be Bernie's best friend and then Trump swayed him to join the GOP ? Maybe Rand Paul or Tom Cotton ? No ? So we're not talking about the same thing at all.
rayiner•1w ago
What you’re describing is just a party realignment. It’s a much bigger realignment than what you’ve seen in the U.S. for awhile, but every now and then when coalitions will break apart and reform. Many of the original GOP members were former Whig Party members (which was one of the two major parties that existed after the Federalist Party collapsed). Ir would’ve been weird to call the GOP “Temu Whigs” because they had a different coalition with different priorities, despite the overlap.
In the UK, it seems like Reform is prepared to moderate on the economic libertarianism of the Thatcherite Tory Party in order to bring culturally conservative anti-immigration voters into the coalition.
tialaramex•1w ago
I can't count RFK Jr. I had never heard of him before the 2024 Election Cycle.
jpfromlondon•1w ago
rayiner•1w ago
Reform’s nationalism by contrast is incredibly milquetoast. It wouldn’t even be considered right wing in much of the world. For example, if the shoe were on the other foot, and British and Irish immigration had reduced Bangladeshis to a minority in Dhaka, then the immigrants would be removed en masse (as the center-left government did with the Rohingya in response to that migration).
What do you think would happen in China if Indians and Bangladeshis mass migrated to Beijing until Chinese people were a minority? It would be a lot less talk and a lot more action than what you’re seeing from Reform.
rich_sasha•1w ago
And yet undoubtedly the UK keeps introducing these privacy-hostile mechanisms, and it's not even clear what for. There is no obvious reason, not a pragmatic one, not a nefarious one (IMO).
ronsor•1w ago
I would say they're aiming more for a boring authoritarian dystopia than a bombastic one.
jpfromlondon•1w ago
That said I can't imagine any government willingly giving up the power grabbed by Labour.
pcdevils•1w ago
"Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022: Expands police powers to restrict protests based on "serious disruption," including imposing noise limits and start/finish times, reported the BBC.
Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Act 2023: Enables employers to mandate service levels during strikes in sectors like health, transport, and fire services, effectively curbing union power, notes Labour Research.
Public Order Act 2023: Introduced further measures against "disruptive" protest tactics, such as locking on, often used by environmental protestors, explain Sage Journals and peoplesmomentum.com.
Nationality and Borders Act 2022: Critiqued for undermining international refugee law and introducing differential treatment for asylum seekers based on their method of arrival, write Sage Journals.
Judicial Review and Courts Act 2022: Critics argue this act weakens judicial oversight, reducing the ability of citizens to challenge government decisions in court, says Zara Sultana on TikTok.
Online Safety Act 2023: While aimed at protecting users, some critics raised concerns about potential impacts on free speech and the regulation of content, suggest Sage Journals. "
jpfromlondon•5d ago
No alternative is as remotely authoritarian.