frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Made with ♥ by @iamnishanth

Open Source @Github

fp.

Open in hackernews

Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

https://www.wpr.org/news/4-wisconsin-communities-signed-secrecy-deals-billion-dollar-data-centers
100•sseagull•1h ago

Comments

bell-cot•1h ago
The most important news is in the subtitle -

> Wisconsin has now joined several states with legislative proposals to make the process more transparent.

Legislative or constitutional, good democratic government really needs limits on how much its supposed officials can do in secret.

rayiner•1h ago
I agree, but what do you do when people are steeped in misinformation about water use and 5G signals?
nemo•1h ago
You can tell them the truth, you could do public reach out, you could do a whole lot of things. Secret back-room deals deliberately hidden from the public who will (justifiably) assume maliciousness just creates even worse PR, less trust, and opens up avenues of corruption and abuse.
hallway_monitor•1h ago
Doesn't everyone know that dihydrogen monoxide can be lethal? https://www.csun.edu/science/ref/humor/dhmo.html
hrimfaxi•53m ago
I can't believe this is still around. I remember printing this out to show my science teacher decades ago.
throwhn1232•49m ago
Then you don’t get to build there, obviously. "Oh they’re too stupid to know better, let’s do what we want anyway" doesn’t seem like a sane solution, especially since the framework would be just as applicable to actually undesirable industrial plants and the like. They’re free to convince/bribe the people to allow it, not just push the poors around
newsclues•1h ago
Secrecy needs a time limit.
hrimfaxi•54m ago
Why do we allow municipalities to keep secrets in the first place? Unless it is personnel-related it should be public. If the communications happened on taxpayer funded equipment they should be open.
bloak•46m ago
They'll tell you it needs to be confidential "for commercial reasons". They always do.
9dev•37m ago
Then you'll need to tell them democracy overrules commercial reasons.
hrimfaxi•32m ago
If corporate IT can read the CEO's emails despite commercial reasons I think we the people can see what our servants are doing with our equipment on our time.
petcat•32m ago
In a lot of cases, it's the only way that municipalities can submit bids for projects they want. And in the commercial space the bidding process is usually confidential. So it's just basically a requirement of public private partnership.

Of course the municipality could just say that they don't want the project and they won't submit a bid. That's fine too.

buellerbueller•4m ago
Municipalities should not be bidding on corporate benefaction; this is exactly the opposite of how the relationship between the public and private sector should be.
bell-cot•25m ago
There are valid uses. McDonalds may not want Burger King to know they're planning to build a new location in Smallville, 'till they actually break ground, or vice versa. Don't blabber to everyone that the City wants to expand a park, so neighboring property owners will know to demand top dollar. Etc.

But yeah - honest uses are pretty limited. Which limits we can hope will be tightly enforced by new legislation.

buellerbueller•3m ago
Tough shit, Mickey D's, that's the cost of doing business.
imglorp•55m ago
It's literally "we the people, by the people, for the people". Except for personnel/employee matters, state and local government should be completely transparent with secrets explicitly forbidden.

Secret deals with corporations is corruption.

CodeCompost•1h ago
> Now Meta, the trillion-dollar company

How is it that Meta is worth a trillion dollars?

pixl97•57m ago
Turns out sucking up all the information there is and displaying ads is worth a lot.
parpfish•32m ago
That’s still a little mind boggling.

They don’t make anything or directly help somebody else make something.

they provide a platform that can maybe sometimes nudges an individual purchasing decisions in one direction.

simonw•48m ago
They capture around 15% of global ad spending.

$200bn annual revenue with a 5x sales multiple gets you to a trillion dollars.

celticninja•38m ago
because it is all made up
nythroaway048•1h ago
This is happening all over the country. This is the Disney World playbook; people in these towns should understand what their land is worth to companies like Meta et al, and make a decision after having all the facts laid out for them in public.
yunohn•45m ago
> “I know the opponents currently disagree, but I think the city acted in as transparent a way as they could,” Campbell said.

The audacity of public officials these days is astounding.

insuranceguru•44m ago
It's the standard municipal playbook now: obscure the deal until the ground is broken to avoid NIMBYism, then present it as a fait accompli for jobs. The interesting part will be the resource strain. These centers guzzle water and power at a rate most small municipal grids aren't scoped for. I wonder if the secrecy deals include clauses about priority access to utilities during peak load events?
parpfish•38m ago
Do data centers create that many jobs? Especially if you break it down by jobs per sqft, I can’t imagine it compares well to any other type of industrial development
infecto•35m ago
They bring in temporary construction jobs but once running they provide no meaningful jobs.
irishcoffee•28m ago
They neither directly create many long-term jobs or use copious amounts of water.

If we haven't collectively established at this point that LLMs, data centers, "AI", "the next industrial revolution" are created and controlled by the wealthiest people in the world, and said people don't give a fuck about anything but money and power, we're hopeless. The elite don't care about jobs, or water. At all.

If I were wrong, the whole charade would have been shut down after LLMs convinced people to kill themselves. We have regulations on top of regulations in all corners of the US because of the "Safety" boogieman.

I wish we had the same riots about LLMs that we do about other things. If this isn't the biggest evidence yet that social unrest is engineered I'm not sure what would be more convincing.

bayindirh•26m ago
> use copious amounts of water.

If you're in Europe and/or using completely closed loop systems, then yes. Your only water use is humidifiers, and maybe the sprayers you use on drycoolers in the summer months.

On the other hand, if you use water spraying into air as heat absorption system or use open loop external circuits, you're using literally tons of water.

Source: Writing this comment from a direct liquid cooled data center.

basket_horse•18m ago
> If I were wrong, the whole charade would have been shut down after LLMs convinced people to kill themselves.

I hate this argument, and every time I see it in the news it feels like propaganda to me. Everything has risk. People have been committing suicide off google searches for years. There are thousands of fatal car crashes a year. Does that mean we should just abandon progress and innovation? Seems like a fragile argument made by people who dislike LLMs for other reasons

insuranceguru•28m ago
That's exactly the issue. The jobs are front-loaded in construction. Once operational, a massive data center might only employ 30-50 high-skill technicians.

Compared to a factory of the same square footage that might employ 500+ people, the 'jobs per megawatt' ratio is terrible. It's essentially renting out the local power grid to a remote entity, not creating a local economy.

m4ck_•19m ago
Aside from the initial construction, you need a few shifts of dc techs (for remote hands, running data cables, escorting vendors), electricians, and security. Not much else really needs to be done onsite.
bayindirh•35m ago
> These centers guzzle water and power at a rate most small municipal grids aren't scoped for.

Are you NIMBYing for our AI overlords which will replace all the work we do and give us unlimited prosperity at the push of a button?

This incident will be reported. /s

On a more serious note, when the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten, and the last stream poisoned, we will realize that humans cannot eat money (or silicon for that matter).

insuranceguru•24m ago
Ha, point taken. But the 'NIMBY' argument is interesting here because unlike a housing development (which uses local resources for local people), a data center extracts local resources (water/power) to export value globally. It's an extraction economy dynamic, just with electrons instead of ore.
delichon•39m ago
NIMBY for data centers is opportunity for SpaceX. When they saturate the demand for communication, data processing demand will be ramping up with no apparent ceiling. The merger between SpaceX and xAI positions them to benefit both from the AI revolution, and from the resistance to it. It's like a hypothetical 19th century textile company that managed to profit from Luddite riots by using them to help move production to Umpa Loompa.
outside1234•35m ago
Is this satire? I can't even tell anymore. If so, bravo.
brightball•30m ago
Yep. That was my first thought when I saw the SpaceX & xAI merger news.

https://www.wsj.com/tech/bezos-and-musk-race-to-bring-data-c...

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/01/technology/space-data-cen...

timmg•26m ago
Do data centers in space actually make sense? I can’t figure out how that’s possible. But some people seem to believe they do(?)
janice1999•18m ago
> Do data centers in space actually make sense?

No. It's currently a fantasy. Even if the cost of getting payloads to orbit decreased another x100, you still have the issues of radiation and heat dissipation.

simianwords•13m ago
this will age poorly. you have both Google, Tesla/X betting on it. They are not stupid and probably have given it way more thought than people's whose paycheques not tied to this have thought about.

This is an ambitious bet, with some possibility of failure but it should say a lot that these companies are investing in them.

I wonder what people think, are these companies so naive?

MattSteelblade•11m ago
Not even a little; doesn’t pass napkin math. It doesn’t solve any problems while adding a litany of new ones: massive radiators for heat rejection, radiation hardening, and enormous launch + repair costs (assuming repairs are even possible). The idea exists to separate investors from their money; the product is the funding round.
mekdoonggi•18m ago
Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a container ship, convert it to a data center and connect it to a bunch of floating panels?
sailfast•18m ago
I wouldn’t overthink the SpaceX / xAI thing. Seems to me it’s a pure financing play to blend two companies owned by the same guy that might look meh on their own to the market but have a compelling narrative about “future growth” together.

All so that the same guy who is already quite rich can continue to run his funny-up money roll-up machine, re-capitalize on a bunch of froth and leave other people holding the bag.

simianwords•10m ago
what about Google? It's always the same tired thought ending cliches - companies with "bad" people do obviously "bad" thing to convince idiotic shareholders and prop up the bubble.

i keep seeing this same repeated trope again and again.

DalasNoin•12m ago
Space doesn't seem like a good place to build datacenters at all. Cooling is going to be an enormous issue, how do you disperse of heat in a vaccuum? Radiators are very ineffective for cooling.
phkahler•35m ago
There is an obvious question I don't see anyone asking. Why do these data centers have to be built in every state? I guarantee it's not to run LLMs.
542458•33m ago
Same reason the F35 manufacture is awkwardly distributed throughout the US - the shore up political support (voting to kill jobs in your state is usually unpopular) and dip into as many subsidies as possible.
brandonb•29m ago
NASA got its support in much the same way during the space race. Spreading the jobs widely is a good way to get political support.
janice1999•25m ago
Data centers don't create local jobs once construction is complete. 40 people, most remote, can run a data center. The F-35 program claims to have over 250,000 people employed in its supply chain in the US and has large factories with high paying, often unionised jobs.
briffle•5m ago
I hear that argument, but a relative has been an elecrtrician that started out working mostly at the original facebook datacenter in 2016 or so. he now owns the business, and his single biggest client is still the facebook datacenter.

Constant additions, reconfigurations, etc.

ecshafer•4m ago
In these small rust belt towns, even 40 jobs is a huge boost. You have the hands on sysadmin and network guys there, which yeah thats small. But you also have facilities, security, maintenance. When you combine this with the stimulus to the local economy through construction its a positive. Sure its not a 10k person factory, but there are places where the biggest employer is Walmart. These places look at an Amazon Warehouse or a Datacenter as being a big benefit.
janice1999•32m ago
“We’re going to have supervision,” Oracle founder Larry Ellison said. “Every police officer is going to be supervised at all times, and if there’s a problem, AI will report that problem and report it to the appropriate person. Citizens will be on their best behavior because we are constantly recording and reporting everything that’s going on.”
sailfast•26m ago
They don’t, but Wisconsin is a pretty good spot for them.
drunner•25m ago
The reason likely here is water. It was the same with foxcon. They want access to Lake Michigan.
threetonesun•20m ago
I guess it's an answer to the obviously absurd idea that 98% of data centers be in Northern Virginia.

My less snarky answer is -- we've always had data centers all over the place? When I started in web dev we deployed to boxes running in a facility down the street. That sort of construction probably dropped considerably when everyone went to "the cloud".

Aurornis•6m ago
Distributing our infrastructure is a good thing.

Putting them all in one or two places isn’t good for reliability, disaster resilience, and other things that benefit from having them distributed.

Data centers do more than just run LLMs. It’s a good thing when your data is backed up to geographically diverse data centers and your other requests can be routed to a nearby data center.

Have you ever tried to play fast paced multiplayer games on a server in a different country? It’s not fun. The speed of light limits round trip times.

> I guarantee it's not to run LLMs.

Are you trying to imply something conspiratorial?

lapcat•34m ago
Capitalism as we're taught from economics textbooks does not exist in our reality. The theory is that sellers are supposed to compete among themselves to attract consumers. Instead we have local, state, and even national governments competing among themselves to attract sellers. And of course political election campaigns are mostly privately funded, so even the kind of competition that does exist is rarely "meritocratic," and it's certainly not democratic (small d). The wheels are greased in various ways, with campaign contributions in office and cushy corporate jobs afterward. You might say, "the public should stop electing corrupt representatives," but again, our political system is based on private funding of election campaigns, so the system practically requires financial corruption. The political duopoly is an advertising duopoly: politicians can't spread their message without money, which is why alternative parties are trapped forever in obscurity. Advertising is the price of admission to the debate. The for-profit news media conspires in this system by refusing coverage, and media-sponsored debate invitations, to candidates without money, allegedly because they're not "viable," a Catch-22 situation.
outside1234•32m ago
Someone is going to have to explain to me why anything at the state or local level should be allowed to be secret like I am two years old because I don't get how this helps citizens.
chasd00•26m ago
Ftfa “ The lack of public disclosure, while relatively common for typical development proposals in the planning stages…”

Sounds like it’s not something new or reserved for data enter projects only but I agree it sure seems a shady practice.

dguest•26m ago
I'd like to hear the argument for why this is needed.

I can imagine a number of reasons, but this is all I found in the article:

> If I’m a company considering making strategic investments... I don’t want my competition to know where I’m going, what I’m doing, what pace I’m doing it at... You want to make sure everything is buttoned up and bow tied before that type of information is put into the public realm.

I'm having trouble with this. Is the worry that Amazon will outbid or outmaneuver Meta? How does this work in practice?

Whereas everyone here seems to assume it's to avoid NIMBY. I can see how a Meta spokesperson won't say "if we told you we're trashing your land you'd object" but I'd hope they could come up with a better argument than "your community is a pawn in a 5d chess game, better that you don't know".

infecto•17m ago
I wish I had better hard numbers on it but from my experience, it’s not unusual for large buildouts, say for example a manufacturing plant to happen with NDAs until you get at least initial sign offs. Land, county, electric grid, water etc.

There is a component of not wanting the competition know exactly what your doing but also it’s usually better for most parties including the constituents to not know about it until it’s at least in a plausible state. Thought differently, it’s not even worth talking about with the public until it’s even a viable project.

a2128•14m ago
This is a scary argument. Should we also ban car emissions/safety testing, because Volvo's competitors might discern something from the results? Should we also stop FCC certification because competitors might glean information out of a device's radio characteristics?

The local residents, if not the public at large, should have a right to know. If not, then it should go both ways and grocery stores shouldn't be allowed to use tracking because my personal enemies might discern something from the milk brand I'm buying

bparsons•12m ago
Don't give them any ideas
jjkaczor•9m ago
Naw - corps will just get engineers to fudge the emissions numbers, then they have someone low-level and easy to blame and remove from the organization... VW:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal

datsci_est_2015•6m ago
It’s definitely a result of the money at play, which is unprecedented in scale and (imo) speculation.

But this is, in theory, why we have laws: to fight power imbalances, and money is of course power.

Tough for me to be optimistic about law and order right now though, especially when it comes to the president’s biggest donors and the vice president’s handlers.

Supermancho•10m ago
> I don’t want my competition to know where I’m going, what I’m doing, what pace I’m doing it at

This is likely a misdirection. The "competition" is for the water and power, ie the local communities. This is a NIMBY issue with practical consequences. That's how it has been used in one part of North Dakota. Applied Digital is building in a small town named Harwood after being unhappy with Fargo tax negotiations. The mayor of Harwood abused an existing agreement with Fargo, which will have to meet the water and power needs of everything in the city.

JKCalhoun•2m ago
Is this the tactic of pitting cities against one another in a race-to-the-bottom competition that gives public tax money to corporations?
vasco•8m ago
Well it makes sense for the company to demand it, but for the community / municipality it only makes sense if they believe someone else will sign such a secrecy deal, because if their location is so good, advertising it would generate bidding war and they'd get more money.

So it depends on the game theory but with coordination on the municipalities doing it in the open should generate higher demand.

buellerbueller•7m ago
Governments should not be allowed to make deals that are kept secret from the people; the government is an arm of the people.
emsign•4m ago
Data centers raise electricity bills and use too much ground water. Due to the AI bubble more data centers need to be built in areas that cannot support these facilities, deregulation, investor and political pressure ensures this, i.e. corruption. The last remaining spots are near residential areas. So people are pissed because of:

* noise pollution, infrasound from HVAC travelling long distances making people sick

* power outages priorizing data centers at the expense of residentials

* rising electricity bills

* rising water bills

onionisafruit•25m ago
I’m having trouble with the football-field to acre conversion in this article. It talks about the complex being the size 12 football fields and the data center being 520 acres. I could believe it if those numbers were swapped and there was a 12 football field data center in a 520 acre complex. So I don’t know if they swapped the sizes of the complex and the actual data center or the author thinks football fields are much larger than they really are.
timmg•22m ago
I find it strange how data centers are getting (sorta) vilified. I keep hearing stories on NPR that are kinda subtle fear-mongering.

Like data centers are probably the least bad thing to build nearby. They take in power and produce computer. No pollution, no traffic, no chemicals or potential explosions.

They do take power. But, like, we know how to generate electricity. And solar is getting really cheap.

infecto•12m ago
Yeah it’s wild to me to. Especially as I think rising rates are getting misaligned with data centers. I am sure the continued demand has added to some of the costs but people are forgetting most of the US grid is ancient and largely neglected. When building a facility requiring large electric or water usage that facility is usually paying large upfront costs to get connected with 10 or 20 year contracts.

It’s a pretty unique time we live in where economic growth is seen as negative.

ecshafer•2m ago
Its pure fearmongering by the opposition. Before NPR became a total meme, they used to be overly crunchy granola and against all technological or industrial advancement. They are just getting back to their roots.
comrade1234•21m ago
I wouldn't mind if they put one in Douglas county where I have a cabin. It would hopefully get some of the locals off government disability payments which seems to be the main income source there.

How We Exploited Qodo: From a PR Comment to RCE and AWS Admin Key – Leaked Twice

https://kudelskisecurity.com/research/qodo-dynaconf-aws-admin-key-leaked-twice
1•spiridow•40s ago•0 comments

The Vitalists: hardcore longevity enthusiasts who believe death is wrong

https://www.technologyreview.com/2026/01/29/1131815/vitalism-longevity-enthusiasts-influence/
1•rbanffy•1m ago•0 comments

Zo Computer

https://www.zo.computer/
1•erhuve•2m ago•0 comments

Low-power integrated optical amplification through second-harmonic resonance

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09959-z
2•westurner•2m ago•0 comments

AI hallucinations will expose flaws in decision-making system governance

https://peter875364.substack.com/p/ai-hallucinations-will-reveal-whether
1•speckx•2m ago•0 comments

The AI Mexican Standoff

https://mleverything.substack.com/p/the-ai-mexican-standoff
1•bko•3m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Today is Friday What are you building?

1•cranberryturkey•4m ago•0 comments

A Laser Ruler for Sharper Black Hole Images

https://www.universetoday.com/articles/a-laser-ruler-for-sharper-black-hole-images
1•rbanffy•5m ago•0 comments

Softflation

1•adibalcan•5m ago•0 comments

Why was some recent news on a journalist flagged?

2•jrm4•6m ago•1 comments

Ferroelectric ultraviolet photodetector material with ultrafast response speed

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-68069-6
1•westurner•6m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Running our stack on a $25 Hetzner node with Coolify and SQLite

1•icemelt8•7m ago•1 comments

Can Morality Survive Climate Collapse?

https://nautil.us/can-morality-survive-climate-collapse-1264421/
1•rbanffy•7m ago•0 comments

Where I'm at with AI

https://paulosman.me/2026/01/18/where-im-at-with-ai/
3•crashwhip•7m ago•0 comments

Name it to tame it: Researcher discovers technique to reduce cigarette cravings

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2026-01-technique-cigarette-cravings.html
1•pseudolus•8m ago•0 comments

Want digital sovereignty? That'll be 1% of your GDP into AI infrastructure

https://www.theregister.com/2026/01/30/1pc_gdp_ai_gartner/
1•pseudolus•9m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Amla Sandbox – WASM bash shell sandbox for AI agents

https://github.com/amlalabs/amla-sandbox
2•souvik1997•11m ago•0 comments

Richard Feynman Side Hustles

https://twitter.com/carl_feynman/status/2016979540099420428
4•tzury•12m ago•0 comments

Engineered coatings containing cyclic peptides delay macrofouling

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167779925004925
1•PaulHoule•14m ago•0 comments

Microsoft Is More Dependent on OpenAI Than the Converse

https://www.nextplatform.com/2026/01/29/microsoft-is-more-dependent-on-openai-than-the-converse/
1•speckx•15m ago•0 comments

Bitcoin's Quantum Computing Threat

https://bmpro.substack.com/p/bitcoins-quantum-computing-threat
1•austinallegro•15m ago•0 comments

Journalist Don Lemon taken into custody after Minnesota church protest

https://www.cnn.com/2026/01/30/politics/don-lemon-custody
3•wahnfrieden•17m ago•0 comments

Show HN: ChordCraft – Browser-based chord progression sketchpad with MIDI export

https://chord.iru-yo.com/
1•obutora•17m ago•0 comments

Using the BusyBox trick to turn AI prompts into native-looking executables

https://tgalal.com/blog/genai-prompts-as-native-programs
1•tgalal•18m ago•0 comments

Show HN: I Put Mail on the Internet

https://mappymail.com
1•pruetj•19m ago•0 comments

Many of the Uber-rich pay next to no income tax (2019)

https://apnews.com/article/personal-taxes-business-ab6466a9dcc211907a753ccfb7660959
2•andsoitis•19m ago•0 comments

The Voxel Is a Cutting-Edge Theater Experiment

https://bmoreart.com/2024/09/the-voxel-is-a-cutting-edge-theater-experiment.html
1•simonw•20m ago•1 comments

Ghost in the Shell: My AI Experiment

https://charlesleifer.com/blog/ghost-in-the-shell-my-ai-experiment/
2•cleifer•21m ago•0 comments

Guys, I don't think Tim Cook knows how to monetize AI

https://techcrunch.com/2026/01/29/guys-i-dont-think-tim-cook-knows-how-to-monetize-ai/
2•speckx•22m ago•1 comments

Apple II Computer with Early Rev. 0 Board sells for $37,646

https://www.rrauction.com/auctions/lot-detail/350449307346045-apple-ii-computer-with-early-rev-0-...
1•oldnetguy•24m ago•0 comments