Mobile carriers can get your GPS location

https://an.dywa.ng/carrier-gnss.html

107•cbeuw•1h ago

Comments

kayodelycaon•1h ago

Emergency services (with the proper software) have been able to get your precise location from your phone for a while now.

This isn’t a new capability and shouldn’t be surprising.

michaelt•50m ago

Surely that only happens when the phone user dials 911 ?

hammock•49m ago

How would that work?

roywiggins•46m ago

The phone could literally pop up a consent alert asking whether to respond to a GPS ping request from the carrier. Or just not honor the pings at all unless you dialed 911 within the last hour.

This is a specific service inside the phone that looks for messages from the carrier requesting a GPS position, it could just refuse, or lie. It's not the same as cell tower triangulation.

winstonwinston•16m ago

The article does not explain in detail how all this works. But educated guess is that if a baseband SoC provides this information, that's it. The phone operating system (iOS, Android) does not get a chance to decide what to do, since baseband soc is a sort of autonomous computer, it has its own firmware, cpu and ram.

roywiggins•13m ago

You might not be able to fix this in the OS alone, but phone manufacturers are responsible for the whole phone. The baseband doesn't need to behave that way.

winstonwinston•6m ago

Well, yes. But autonomous is acting in accordance with one's duty (a law) rather than one's desires.

hammock•3m ago

That’s not happening today. I meant how is it happening today, such that it can only ever happen when you dial 911?

kortilla•46m ago

A phone knows if it’s dialing 911. It can activate features on this criteria

cosmicgadget•45m ago

It already exists. Emergency call is a spec-defined.

yetihehe•44m ago

Phone detects that you call emergency service and enables gps.

Last time I called 911 (well, it's 112 in my country) my android phone asked if I want to provide gps coordinates. I did, but they still asked for address, so probably this is not integrated/used everywhere.

nkrisc•28m ago

They may also ask simply to confirm the location is correct and to help responders more quickly locate you in the vicinity.

kotaKat•36m ago

Carrier* Android and iOS both integrate with RapidSOS UNITE. RapidSOS then processes the rich emergency information from the user's device (enhanced location, videos and photos, etc), and is available to the 911 dispatcher in their dispatch software. 99.99% of Americans are covered by RapidSOS integrations in their municipalities.

https://rapidsos.com/public-safety/unite/

When the call comes in they can click a button and query RapidSOS for current 911 calls for that number and pull the information inwards.

https://www.baycominc.com/hubfs/2025%20Website%20Update/Prod...

anonymousiam•40m ago

The cell network routinely does TDoA triangulation in order to help choose which tower should serve the client mobile device. Accuracy is about 20m, and may be better at 5G frequencies. 911 gets the location from the mobile network provider, but the network provider could provide it to anyone, and they do.

Tons of "free" and crapware apps are also recording location, and sending it to data brokers.

https://www.wired.com/story/jeffrey-epstein-island-visitors-...

Etheryte•49m ago

None of this should be happening without the user's knowledge and consent. Swap out your phone carrier for Facebook and it should be plainly obvious why the current state of affairs is undesirable.

cosmicgadget•43m ago

You know about it because your regulatory body requires the system exist.

TheNewsIsHere•18m ago

And it’s typically disclosed in one way or another.

Between buying a phone and reading the OS EULA to providing an E911 address to my carrier, I can count at least three disclosures of this feature.

Nothing is secret or magic here.

tekla•59m ago

How is this news?

Why wouldn't carriers be able to ask your phone about what it thinks its location is?

mcny•56m ago

No, please read the article. No one is saying carriers cant triangulate but carriers shouldn't be able to query the gps on my device and get precise GNSS data.

> Apple made a good step in iOS 26.3 to limit at least one vector of mass surveillance, enabled by having full control of the modem silicon and firmware. They must now allow users to disable GNSS location responses to mobile carriers, and notify the user when such attempts are made to their device.

benSaiyen•54m ago

Please reread OPs comment

They never said "triangulate" but read phone for information. Your inner monologue swapped what was written with an already understood technical method.

And just because access to GPS has never been confirmed publicly before does not mean they previously only relied on tower triangulation.

Worked for Sprints network team before they bought Nextel. We had access to eeeeverything.

tekla•51m ago

I did read the article fine, thanks for asking.

The crux of the argument seems to come from this

> It’s worth noting that GNSS location is never meant to leave your device. GNSS coordinates are calculated entirely passively.

OK so? The fact that GPS is calculated passively means nothing about the phone being asked what its position is after the fact.

The article admits this capability is no secret

> These capabilities are not secrets but somehow they have mostly slid under the radar of the public consciousness.

If the article just wants to say phones should block that ability, fine. But don't pretend this is some shady BS.

kortilla•43m ago

> slid under the radar of the public consciousness.

It is shady BS, and it’s why this phrase appeared in the article. Just because industry insiders are aware doesn’t mean it’s not shady.

The same applies to modern cars reporting their information back to manufacturers.

colechristensen•55m ago

There's a difference in precision between cell tower triangulation and GPS. From 10-100 meters down to 1.

The cell network does not need to know where you are down to the meter and phones have no business giving this information up.

Plasmoid2000ad•54m ago

Why would they? It's basic privacy no? Just because I want to pay money to carrier to provide me with data and phone service, I shouldn't have to give up my location from my device. I expect them to know my approximate location from cell tower data.

Generally I'd not expect them actively triangulate my exact location, but I'd realise that's at least possible - but GPS data, wake my phone up, switch on the GPS radio, drain it's battery, send that data back... no. That wouldn't be legal where I live either, let alone expected.

tekla•48m ago

> but GPS data, wake my phone up, switch on the GPS radio, drain it's battery, send that data back... no. That wouldn't be legal where I live either, let alone expected.

Where does the article claim this turns on the GPS if off?

bmacho•20m ago

It .. probably does turn the GPS on?

While this is an important question, I don't see the sources mentioning it, what the standards mandate, and how the phones behave.

For example the wiki article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_resource_location_servic... describes the protocol as using the GPS and not as getting the location info from Android.

nephihaha•12m ago

It's all in the small print or acquired by deception.

vlovich123•5m ago

The can ask but your phone maybe doesn’t have to tell them by default / you can opt out

ProofHouse•56m ago

In other news, the sky is up

cluckindan•55m ago

Removing this ability also prevents emergency services from determining device location in case its owner goes missing.

webstrand•52m ago

No? If the device is connected to a cell, they can still triangulate it just like normal.

mcculley•48m ago

Cell tower triangulation does not provide the same precision as GPS.

roywiggins•47m ago

In an emergency you might really want GPS precision.

Noaidi•46m ago

And this is how they’re able to track all of us, they’re triggering our fear response to give up our civil liberties.

b00ty4breakfast•42m ago

it should be my choice to decide if I want my privacy to be infringed upon in the name of safety. It should not be up to the carrier, or the manufacturer, or first responders or any level of government to make that decision for me.

digiown•42m ago

Can't this can be done in a less invasive way by whitelisting the emergency numbers and putting an extra button somewhere that sends the location?

gruez•39m ago

> The limit precise location setting doesn't impact the precision of the location data that is shared with emergency responders during an emergency call.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/126101

2OEH8eoCRo0•49m ago

Do they really need it? They can likely triangulate you without GPS regardless.

mcculley•47m ago

Cell tower triangulation does not provide the same precision as GPS.

kotaKat•31m ago

And at the end of the day if the location is a hundred meters off... it might still not matter because it's how you frame it with other evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

Even the article mentions this.

> I have served on a jury where the prosecution obtained location data from cell towers. Since cell towers are sparse (especially before 5G), the accuracy is in the range of tens to hundreds of metres.

I've also personally witnessed murder cases locally where GPS location put a suspect to "100 meters away". The rest of the evidence still pushed the case forward to a guilty verdict, and the phone evidence was still pretty damning.

metaphor•20m ago

What makes you think cell tower triangulation is the only data point being exploited to minimize position error?

2OEH8eoCRo0•7m ago

I've wondered if they can also find you by what wifi networks or Bluetooth devices are around. Odds are one or more humans nearby has their GPS on. Or those other humans and devices snitch on what devices are around.

instagib•48m ago

What you need iPhone Air, iPhone 16e, or iPad Pro (M5) Wi-Fi + Cellular iOS 26.3 or later

A supported carrier: Germany: Telekom United Kingdom: EE, BT United States: Boost Mobile Thailand: AIS, True

Turn limit precise location on or off

Open Settings, then tap Cellular.

Tap Cellular Data Options.

If you have more than one phone number under SIMs, tap one of your lines.

Scroll down to Limit Precise Location.

Turn the setting on or off. You might be prompted to restart your device.

OGEnthusiast•33m ago

Kinda funny that the most secure phone setup in the US is an iPhone Air on Boost Mobile. Who could have predicted that!

TheNewsIsHere•20m ago

It isn’t restricted to Boost Mobile. It is only available on devices with the C1 or C1X modem, though. I assume this is because of specifics with the third party modems that most models in the wild have vs what Apple is doing in-house with their C1(X). If you call emergency services it will still provide precise location.

js2•25m ago

Apple doc: https://support.apple.com/en-us/126101

Only Boost Mobile in the U.S. Weird. About 7.5M subscribers. Maybe it requires 5G? Wonder if it works when roaming?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_Mobile

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_network_operato...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G_NR

AnotherGoodName•32m ago

This community should be talking about meshcore more imho.

It's a peer to peer network based on Lora. It really only allows text messaging but with up to 20km hops between peers coverage is surprisingly huge. Incredibly useful if you go hiking with friends (if you get split up you can still stay in touch).

See https://eastmesh.au/ and scroll down to the map for the Victoria and now more widely Australia network that's sprung up.

grepfru_it•25m ago

Great for small networks. Once bad actors find it, it will be attacked. See gnutella as the case study on unsupervised peer to peer networks

elnerd•11m ago

I just read gnutella page on Wikipedia, no mention of bad actors

copperx•24m ago

It is surprising that these networks aren't more popular. There are still many places and situation where connectivity isn't available

NoiseBert69•5m ago

Meshcore and -tastic have the huge problem that the encryption keys are bound to the device and not the app.

wisplike•5m ago

Why Meshcore over Meshtastic?

ianpenney•4m ago

There’s lots of YouTube videos about this but basically: you can specify routing.

ianpenney•5m ago

I’ve been wondering this for a while and maybe someone has a clue.

Based on the very “bursty” nature of LoRA, how much does an adversary need to spend to radiolocate it? What’s the threat model there?

AlexanderYamanu•32m ago

euhm, well. 112 programmer here. There are multiple levels. Cell tower triangulation come in automatically from providers. But they are only in tower numbers. They might be wrongly entered by engineers, hence the confirming question about where you are. Second is subscription information, as in registered address. Chances are if called from nearby your address, you are at your address. Next is a text to your phone number, which is intercepted by firmware and sends gps coords back. This can be turned off, since implementation.

IshKebab•12m ago

> This can be turned off, since implementation.

Not by users. The new thing is that Apple allows users to disable this feature. Hopefully they still detect emergency calls on the phone and enable it unconditionally for those.

thisislife2•27m ago

From the comments, it appears many are not aware that even the US government buys locations data of users from data brokers - How the Federal Government Buys Our Cell Phone Location Data - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/06/how-federal-government... ... Apparently, US cell phone companies are one of the providers of this data - US cell carriers are selling access to your real-time phone location data - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17081684 ...

Frost1x•9m ago

We really have a societal problem in that we allow private entities to do things we don’t allow government to do. Furthermore, the issue is exacerbated by then allowing governments to bypass these issues by then just paying private entities to do the things it can’t do as a proxy for the same functional outcomes.

But we want to support privatization at all cost, even when privatization these days has significant influence on our daily lives, akin to the concerns we had when we placed restrictions on government. Seems like we need to start regulating private actions a bit more, especially when private entities accumulate enough wealth they can act like multi state governments in levels of influence. That’s my opinion, at least.

meindnoch•25m ago

What if I told you that carriers can also activate your phone's microphone without your knowledge and listen in on your surroundings?

iamnothere•18m ago

What if I told you there are phones out there with hardware kill switches to physically cut power to microphones, cameras, and GPS?

nichos•18m ago

I would ask for your source

vpShane•16m ago

Here you go: https://www.nsa.gov/

relaxing•16m ago

Why, do you think it's the sort of thing you're likely to say?

IshKebab•11m ago

I would not believe you until you provided actual evidence.

apparent•8m ago

One of the reasons I use iPhones is that Apple controls an integrated hardware/software experience, which makes it less likely that private information is being leaked despite the presence of privacy controls.

bigyabai•6m ago

I empathize with the sentiment, but in reality Apple is as lazy as anyone else: https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/07/29/134008/apple-con...

retired•3m ago

My provider knows who I call, who I text, which websites I browse, my bank account number, my home address, my rough location, which countries I visited for holiday and through DTMF they can even sense which buttons I press on my handset.

tigrezno•2m ago

what about Graphene?

ZebusJesus•22m ago

Phones haven't always had GPS information and they could still be tracked, if you connect to enough towers they can triangulate your location. Cell towers have been able to do this based on your signal strength for a very long time and you cant turn it off. You don't even have to have a SIM card, if the cell radio is on it pings towers period, this is why a phone even without service can dial 911 and it will work. The IMEI of your phone is unique and cell towers can track it, the government has used this and there is no way to disable it. Its not as accurate as GPS but it can be good enough to figure out a route you take and general location

https://www.rfwireless-world.com/terminology/cellular-tower-...

nielsbot•13m ago

The article is not about cell tower triangulation

FTA:

> But this is not the whole truth, because cellular standards have built-in protocols that make your device silently send GNSS (i.e. GPS, GLONASS, Galileo, BeiDou) location to the carrier.

citizenpaul•17m ago

None of this matters. Your rights were taken away buy the corrupt ghouls supposedly "representing" you.

2017 Broadband Consumer Privacy Proposal

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-joint-re...

wildylion•10m ago

There actually should be a push for an EU-wide legislation banning this kind of silent, precise location data collection. If anything, Germany is obsessed with Datenschutz but in many cases it's just laughable security theater.

atheris•4m ago

What are the alternative steps that we can take in Android? How to check if it is happening?

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