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What Functional Programmers Get Wrong About Systems

https://www.iankduncan.com/engineering/2026-02-09-what-functional-programmers-get-wrong-about-systems/
44•subset•1h ago

Comments

diebillionaires•50m ago
this website is incredibly unfriendly to scroll on firefox mobile. i could read it. it jumps every time i scroll down
srik•34m ago
reader mode
foxes•36m ago
Are there any other libaries / research / etc that sorta take a more functional approach to solving these sort of problems?

For db stuff - what if we flipped the way we write schemas around. A schema is its something that you derive at a current state, rather than starting by writing a schema and then generating migrations? So you can reason over all of it rather than a particular snapshot?

AlotOfReading•19m ago
You might be interested in the datomic model [0], where you never remove data and all previous views of the database remain accessible.

[0] https://docs.datomic.com/datomic-overview.html#information-m...

sgarland•1m ago
I thought MongoDB was the worst thing I’d ever heard of. Today, I learned there is a new champion. “Let us deliberately lean into EAV, and eschew types entirely.” What?!
throwup238•19m ago
How do you derive constraints without a schema?

The value of a schema in a db like Postgres isn’t in the description of the storage format or indexing, but the invariants the database can enforce on the data coming in. That includes everything from uniqueness and foreign key constraints to complex functions that can pull in dozens of tables to decide whether a row is valid or should be rejected. How do you derive declarative rules from a turing complete language built into the database?

foxes•1m ago
The current state must satisfy all constraints?

Eg some table Users -> you start with `add user_id` , `add org_id`, `remove org_id` for example, so then the current state is `Users{ user_id }`. But you trust the compiler to derive that, and then when you want to do something with Users you have to scope into it, or tell it how to handle different steps in that chain.

Im not saying this is not equivalent at the end of the day, just if anything surfaces it this way, or makes it more ergonomic.

Krei-se•16m ago
Thats actually how its done! You accept all schemas in your db and default value or afterfit around old interfaces to keep compatibility. You never really write directly ofc so maybe the author is confused as to how FP handles this. For a category this is just another morphism be it a simple schema or a more complicated function, its just many in/out plugged together.

So when you call writeXY your caller has absolutely no need to know what actually happens. Catching and modifying old versions is just another morphism. You can even keep the layout and just accept version and payload as input.

foxes•6m ago
I use a lot of elixir and rust. `mix compile` does not necessarily reason across migrations for the app with what limited type checking it does in 1.19.

You define an ecto schema and write your own migrations, but like the state of the app seems tied to that kinda snapshot of the schema. Its not like you have some lens into the overall chain of all the migrations together.

Krei-se•26m ago
The version problem is solved well in FP by catching the old function and translating it cleanly. This ofc also works with data representation.

Im not sure what the point of the post is. Minimizing side effects in your code (keeping functions pure) is what gives you the flexibility he says FP misses?!

platinumrad•21m ago
If your gut response is "here's a way to make the code better" then, yeah, you missed the entire point of the post.
Krei-se•13m ago
I was hoping for discussion and got a zero content kneejerk response
hippo22•11m ago
The point of the article is that the system is not representable in code so all the tools FP provides are useless in systems programming.
Krei-se•7m ago
You my friend need more milewski in your life and let go of the idea that code and data are different things.
troad•4m ago
> Static types, algebraic data types, making illegal states unrepresentable: the functional programming tradition has developed extraordinary tools for reasoning about programs.

But none of these things are functional programming? This is more the tradition of 'expressive static types' than it is of FP.

What about Common Lisp, Racket, Scheme, Clojure, Erlang / Elixir...

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