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U.S. had almost no job growth in 2025

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/economy/january-jobs-revisions-trump-rcna258398
119•ceejayoz•1h ago

Comments

josefritzishere•56m ago
The US lost 600,000 jobs just in January. The future is bleak.
nindalf•53m ago
What?

> America’s economy added 130,000 jobs in January, almost double the number that analysts had been expecting, indicating that the labour market might have picked up after months of apparent stagnation. Unemployment also fell to 4.3%, a slight dip from the previous month. The figures may put off the Federal Reserve from lowering interest rates as quickly as Donald Trump would like.

taeric•49m ago
I'm assuming this is talking about the revised numbers for 2025? And if that revised so heavily downward, hard to imagine the latest numbers are somehow more stable?
dataflow•39m ago
How does BLS even know if each person in the country is unemployed or seeking a job?
rybosworld•32m ago
Mostly through payroll data/surveys.
mandevil•6m ago
The same way that anyone would: they conduct a statistical sample and report unemployment numbers based on that. Source: 15 years ago I was one of the people they contacted. As I recall, a letter came to our apartment, asking for the adult (18+) who had their birthday closest to that date to contact them and provide a phone number and some basic demographic data. That was me, not my roommate, so for the next 12 months I got a call once a month asking me for my employment details about a specific week that month- had I been looking for a job, was I still employed, etc.
rybosworld•40m ago
Yeah not sure where the 600k figure is coming from. But that 130k that's being reported is almost certainly not correct, and will be revised down.

The ADP is only reporting 22k for January. Which lines up very closely with the monthly pace of job creation for 2025 (~15k, on average).

The downward revisions on the BLS numbers for 2025 are the largest on record. There's a sentiment that the monthly numbers were purposely inflated for 2025.

lgleason•55m ago
Only a golden age for the uber wealthy.
heathrow83829•52m ago
>>> "Still, Wednesday’s report also shows that not nearly as many jobs were added in 2025 as thought and last year will go down as the worst year for hiring since 2020, or since 2003 outside of a recession."

Almost no jobs were added net and the few that were, were all in health care, 131K i think the article said.

what i find interesting is that unemployment percent still looks low. is it accurate? even if it's wrong, shouldn't it be correct on a relative basis? why isn't this number climbing?

Arainach•49m ago
US Unemployment statistics have a number of flaws, including not capturing people who are underemployed (taking any low paying job to try to make ends meet instead of working in a higher paying field they are qualified for) and not capturing those who are no longer searching for a job
baron816•43m ago
These data are also reported by the BLS: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/U6RATE.

It’s been creeping up for sure, but still historically low. And I’d attest that the headline rate is still the “real” rate.

nickff•40m ago
I agree that the most-commonly reported 'head-line' numbers can be misleading, but more detailed statistics are available. One of my favorites is the labor participation rate: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

You might want to look at the 'not in labor force' numbers: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU05026642

gruez•39m ago
>One of my favorites is the labor participation rate: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CIVPART

and also labor participation rate, but for 25-54 Yrs, so you exclude the effect of demographic changes https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS11300060

jeffbee•38m ago
Yes, moreover the whole-population participation rate is basically useless and nobody should look at it.
nickff•8m ago
I find the overall population participation rate as being very informative with respect to the tax base, and more general changes over time.
pc86•40m ago
The second point is hard to quantify. If I just give up searching for a job and live off savings or government assistance, but I would take a job if I could find one, I should probably count as unemployed even though I'm not actively searching for a job. But if I am choosing not to look because I won't take a job, I am technically unemployed by the strict definition of the word but I don't count for what most people care about when thinking about the unemployment rate.

Underemployment is already reported and is distinctly different so I don't think it's fair to say that not counting someone at Burger King who has a Master's degree as unemployed is a "flaw."

gruez•32m ago
>If I just give up searching for a job and live off savings or government assistance, but I would take a job if I could find one, I should probably count as unemployed even though I'm not actively searching for a job.

The current definition makes sense because it's linked to an overt action that can be objectively determined. "Not looking for a job but theoretically would like a job" gets into all sorts of issues like "I want a job as a king if it landed on my lap...".

bluGill•26m ago
The problem is how do we tell you from someone who retires early?
9rx•19m ago
Same way we determine all the other inputs that go into the various unemployment rates? Ask.

"Discouraged workers" are already tracked and reported in U4 and U5, so this is a strange hypothetical.

miyoji•19m ago
We determine unemployment using a survey, so presumably you just ask.
jeffbee•39m ago
US unemployment statistics capture both of those things very well and in great detail. BLS U-6 tracks "Employed Part-Time for Economic Reasons".

The idea that the BLS lacks detailed labor market data is just internet conspiracy slop.

elgenie•39m ago
The US tracks six different unemployment metrics plus overall labor force participation rate. You’re talking about U6 and/or labor force participation rate.

Just because U3 is the measure typically quoted doesn’t mean the others don’t exist.

mc32•23m ago
There are flawed, however, as long as the calculations are consistent then the numbers are reliable across time.
kjkjadksj•18m ago
It also doesn’t capture those not on unemployment. Graduate undergrad or grad school and can’t land a job? Government doesn’t know that.
mandevil•12m ago
They separately report people who are on unemployment insurance, but the headline unemployment numbers come from a survey of potential workers, which will capture recent graduates.

Source: 15 years ago I was one of the people they surveyed. Every month for a year they called me, once a month, to ask what my employment status last week was, if I was actively looking, etc. (It was all synchronized around one week a month, but I don't remember which one it was they cared about.)

add-sub-mul-div•38m ago
What stops it from being a more useful metric is that it doesn't account for someone who was employed with benefits five or ten years ago, but today has some crappy gig economy job with no health insurance. They show up as employed either way.
antisthenes•22m ago
> Almost no jobs were added net and the few that were, were all in health care, 131K i think the article said.

I wonder what those folks in health care are doing, because (once again) after dealing with the US healthcare system, it seems like it's about 1% doctors, 10% other staff and 90% useless billing/scheduling/collections, designed to extract the maximum possible amount of money from a patient and provide the minimum amount of care.

More jobs being added in health care seems to be an indicator for it getting even worse.

aetherson•21m ago
Native population is declining (and prime-age workforce is retiring), and the Trump admin has been extensively working to reduce the size of the immigrant workforce.

So the unemployment rate is staying low, but the absolute number of workers is flat or declining.

dzonga•51m ago
it's almost telling how Super Bowl commercials tell the mood of the country's population and economy

latest edition was A.I, prediction markets, GLP-1s -- all indicative of a "Casino" economy where you know the odds are against you but you gamble anyway so you might become one of the few winners

the US is caught up in a weird middle - where its lacking labor capacity for essential manufacturing & other positive contributions while also lacking job making capacity

because all the money has gone into casino economy not capacity building

jonas21•48m ago
What do AI or GLP-1s have to do with a casino economy?
unethical_ban•44m ago
AI, being a boom with a lot of companies trying to make something out of nothing.

GLP, not sure.

bawolff•36m ago
I don't really agree, but you could argue that GLP is targeting people who want a magic solution just like casinos.
toomuchtodo•33m ago
GLP-1s target humans who need a pharma intervention to assist in making their reward center in their brain more defensive against the system they are forced to exist in.

We don’t need ads for it, we should hand it out over the counter to anyone who wants or needs it, but I digress.

thrance•40m ago
The last times so many tech ads made their way to the Superbowl was during the crypto craze and the dot-com bubble. These are symptoms of an overly speculative economy.
saubeidl•45m ago
>the US is caught up in a weird middle - where its lacking labor capacity for essential manufacturing & other positive contributions while also lacking job making capacity

> because all the money has gone into casino economy not capacity building

What you're describing is referenced to as Fictitious Capital in Marxist thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_capital

schmidtleonard•42m ago
Brains turn off if you say Voldemort's name out loud. These ideas need to be rediscovered and rebranded.
saubeidl•42m ago
Personally, I think it's better to normalize and point out there are a lot of valid points made.

But I suppose change needs both strategies.

realusername•14m ago
Reading the Wikipedia article, it doesn't seem to fit at all, this concept is mainly about finance whereas here the money went into actual companies.

The AI companies really did spend every last cent (and more) of this capital.

mothballed•45m ago
I don't gamble to become a winner, I gamble to keep myself break even desperately trying to hold to some asset that isn't inflated into oblivion by misinformed economic and fiscal policy.
anonymars•40m ago
I think this illustrates another pernicious effect of excessive inequality: where does it lure talent? The best and brightest, lured from speculation to ads to blockchain to AI to...
saubeidl•37m ago
Yup, it's the tragedy of the system we have set up.

There's a potentially civilization-ending disasters looming over us (the climate crisis, increasing escalation between the major powers, rising risk of insurrection due to mismanagement and inequality) and what are the smartest people of our time doing?

Making sure you click that damn ad or create technology that lets you create slop ads more easily.

toomuchtodo•34m ago
So, how do you fix it? Can it be fixed?
nemomarx•23m ago
Right now we allocate capital to those kinds of companies. We're on a page for that and all.

If you allocated capital to other stuff, the jobs go there with it?

losteric•22m ago
Money follows ROI. Making those speculative or detrimental industries less profitable is the answer.

Regulations on micro-targeting, data privacy, algorithm transparency, legal liability for content, etc.. all push back against the externalities of ads/social media.

Regulations on energy and land use can make eg data center build outs more expensive, pressuring back against speculative AI trash.

Taxing big tech companies, subsidizing manufacturing education, and judicious import tariffs.. would all create incentives for investing money and labor in hard capabilities

misterbishop•17m ago
we need an opposition party.
pphysch•23m ago
Those are two sides of the same coin. The "sky is falling" narratives and invasive advertising are both employed by the same elite to control your behavior through fear and suggestion.

Noam Chomsky is one of the loudest doomsayers and "critics" of the system (war, climate, politics) and yet simultaneously was good buddies with post-conviction Epstein. That ought to stimulate a reassessment of what you've believed about how (American) politics and society works.

kilroy123•20m ago
To be fair, I'd rather have smart people pursue AI and LLMs than ad tech.
yifanl•18m ago
They're one and the same. https://openai.com/index/testing-ads-in-chatgpt/
dgb23•16m ago
That's mixing up the tool with what it is used for.
gruez•16m ago
But are you actually against inequality because not every industry is getting its fair share (whatever that might mean), or simply that you don't like the winners under the current system? In other words if the current bubble are for solar or fusion power, would you be like "darn, the inequality under the capitalist system is luring talent from enterprise SaaS (or whatever) and that makes me sad"?
giantg2•10m ago
"In other words if the current bubble are for solar or fusion power"

For that to be true, there would have to be a ridiculous amount of money at a massive scale for those, which would imply that consumers are being gouged for it. That's really true of almost any bubble. This is still a negative situation.

palmotea•15m ago
> I think this illustrates another pernicious effect of excessive inequality: where does it lure talent? The best and brightest, lured from speculation to ads to blockchain to AI to...

Or finance. There was a pretty brutal takedown published recently: The Finance Industry Is a Grift. Let’s Start Treating It That Way. (https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/06/opinion/capitalism-indust...).

Basically the finance industry is pivoting away from actually investing in real businesses to more and more elaborate paper pushing schemes (that make them money, but actually weaken the economy):

> Unlike Dawes’s Fidelity Fiduciary Bank, a modern investment bank mostly earns its money in a way that not even the bravest lyricist would set to music: providing advisory services, executing complex financial engineering schemes, trading stocks and bonds, managing other people’s money, issuing credit cards and so on. Assets get bought and sold, divided and packaged, and the bank collects fees at each step.

> David Solomon, the chief executive of Goldman Sachs, could not sing to young Michael about the many productive uses to which he might put the tuppence because Goldman Sachs rarely invests in anything at all. Fostering economic progress appears to be beside the point.

> Less than 10 percent of Goldman’s work in 2024, measured by revenue, was helping businesses raise capital. Loans of Goldman’s own funds to operating businesses accounted for less than 2 percent of its assets. At JPMorgan Chase the figures were 4 and 5 percent; at Morgan Stanley, 7 and 2 percent. Even the efforts at helping to raise capital are misleading, because less than a tenth of it goes toward building anything new. The rest funds debt refinancing, balance sheet restructuring and mergers and acquisitions.

> These are symptoms of financialization. That’s the term for making financial markets and transactions ends unto themselves, disconnected from — and often at the expense of — the societal benefits that support human flourishing and are capitalism’s proper purpose. Chief among those benefits are good jobs that support families, and products and services that improve people’s lives.

giantg2•13m ago
That's more of a moral question. The best and brightest are the ones running the casino. Why would someone spend 8 years in expensive schools becoming a doctor when they can work as a developer or marketer for an online sports book? Morals on the consumer supply curb demand. Morals on the provider side can help curb innovation and expanse.
atoav•8m ago
[delayed]
giantg2•20m ago
"because all the money has gone into casino economy not capacity building"

Executives won't build on-shore capacity when they'll just get undercut by off-shore shops. It's less risky to just outsource.

criddell•7m ago
Isn't that one reason for tariffs? VW, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, and Kia all have some US or Canadian factories.
tk-1234•40m ago
If most of the capital is in the hands of tech bros who live out their fantasies from 1980s SciFi novels, it is going to be misallocated.

The fake economy is now about AI, gambling and cryptocurrencies. It does not help that the current administration contains several Epstein disciples when Epstein was into these tech fantasies as well.

The misallocation of capital claims to grow the pie, but it dilutes the pie with fake growth so people that own the fake parts have more money to buy up the good parts.

jimmaswell•12m ago
Anyone lumping AI in with gambling and crypto scams has their head firmly in the sand. The value in making it easier to make computers do things for you is plainly obvious. People all across the tech literacy spectrum are seeing benefits, from coding projects that took days or weeks taking minutes to hours to finish to soccer moms telling their phones to fix up family photos and find them the email from the doctor's that's buried in their inbox. Competent doctors are getting help catching things from scans/symptoms that would take House MD to connect but are a breeze for an LLM, and there are numerous reports of people figuring out their own longstanding obscure medical issues by asking an LLM to speculate on their symptoms after a hundred doctors failed to diagnose it. Someone who can't afford to get ripped off by a mechanic and doesn't have the spare hours in the day and technical knowledge to Google it the old-fashioned way has a decent chance of solving simple car problems instantly on their own by asking ChatGPT or Gemini. It's frankly a miracle, and it keeps making more leaps and bounds every time the peanut gallery starts going on about it having hit a wall it can never improve from.
llmslave•39m ago
Even worse, look at white collar job growth among american citizens. It has been negative for years
mrtksn•39m ago
The content is the same as this article but the headline on Yahoo Finance is: "Jobs report smashes expectations as payrolls grow by 130,000"

There's no chance for survival just by glancing over the headlines.

ceejayoz•35m ago
That's noted in this article:

> One bright spot was last month, when hiring increased by 130,000 roles. This was significantly more than the 55,000 additions that had been expected by economists.

But that's 2026 hiring, and the article's about the 2025 revisions. (And the January number, as they all do, may get revised in a few months.)

master_crab•28m ago
If I recall, the numbers almost always get revised down.
ceejayoz•25m ago
No. See the chart:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bls-jobs-report-revision-trump-...

Both directions are common.

kingkawn•27m ago
If all of 2025 was overestimated, possibly for political purposes, then why believe that the 2026 numbers are accurate?
ceejayoz•24m ago
Revisions are normal.

It would be quite hard in the long run to make faked BLS numbers line up with other independent data points, like ADP's payroll reports and the IRS's revenues.

longfacehorrace•18m ago
Exactly. So we should not believe numbers posted ASAP to Yahoo and other for profit media to drive engagement. Wait for revisions from the source.

Cheap publishing that reaches across the world has created a race to the bottom.

dgb23•18m ago
Also 130'000 seems to be moderate. It beats expectations but is only slightly above what is needed to keep employment stable.
JohnTHaller•2m ago
Word on the street is that the January number is about to get revised down by a lot. Time will tell.
Me1000•5m ago
ADP is reporting only 22,000: https://adpemploymentreport.com
oytis•38m ago
US population has also barely grown so that us fine?
ceejayoz•32m ago
Newborn babies don't go straight into the labor market.
pc86•31m ago
Newborn babies don't go straight into the labor market yet.
master_crab•27m ago
Gotta drive that shareholder value.
toomuchtodo•30m ago
~400k workers leave the labor force through retirement or death every month, as a data point.
lateforwork•35m ago
Any jobs data coming from the government is worthless, because gov employees will be fired for anything that makes Trump look bad. See link below.

https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/why-firing-bls-commissioner...

JohnMakin•25m ago
Just a weird, completely unscientific personal metric I've used to note that the economy seems like it's shrinking - last year was the first year I've seen since the release of the original switch where switch/switch 2 was not constantly sold out (usually poached by resellers early in the AM) every time I visit target. There's a full shelf of them since late last summer. Unless nintendo actually produced enough units for the first time in recent company history, I suspect it indicates something.
ta9000•24m ago
It doesn’t help that the Switch 2 library is woefully inadequate.
gruez•21m ago
>last year was the first year I've seen since the release of the original switch where switch/switch 2 was not constantly sold out (usually poached by resellers early in the AM) every time I visit target. There's a full shelf of them since late last summer.

Don't you expect demand to taper off as more people get their hands on it? It also doesn't help that the switch 2 is basically "the switch, but better".

kjkjadksj•20m ago
Do you remember switch 1 or wii demand?
JohnMakin•19m ago
This never happened with the switch. I am not kidding. 2023 I was trying to buy one for my sister, and it took me months of waiting for target to open and beating the resellers to it, because I didn't want to overspend online (plus online stock frequently sold out). It was released in 2017!

Nintendo is notorious for under producing their consoles vs demand in recent years - the worst example was the mini NES or whatever they called it, they could not keep it on shelves for that one either.

devin•12m ago
If we're bringing anecdata to the party: I bought OLED shortly after it came out and did not have any trouble.
coke12•11m ago
Anecdotally I have bought 2 switches over its lifetime and never saw any of this ever. Just clicked “buy” on Amazon.
sarchertech•7m ago
I bought 2 switches without any issues. 1 around the time you did.

Months of waiting for target to open sounds insane and is so far from my experience that I think this is actually a case of you were holding it wrong.

palmotea•18m ago
> last year was the first year I've seen since the release of the original switch where switch/switch 2 was not constantly sold out (usually poached by resellers early in the AM) every time I visit target. There's a full shelf of them since late last summer. Unless nintendo actually produced enough units for the first time in recent company history, I suspect it indicates something.

Well, I remember the same thing happening with the Wii for a long time, and then eventually it was easily available.

But now I can't find a Wii at a Target anywhere, so the economy must be booming?

deron12•18m ago
Unscientific indeed:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-10-17/nintendo-... [0]

They produced a record number...your observation should be the expected result (they are aiming to produce 25% more than are expected to sell).

[0] https://archive.is/RInO7

legitster•9m ago
Yeah, Switch 2 sales are actually outpacing Switch 1 sales.
snovymgodym•5m ago
Gaming technology is kind of stagnant, and there aren't the sort of technical leaps between generations anymore. Games today look and feel like games from 2014 with slightly better graphics (and more aggressive monetization).

The Switch has been out since 2017 and has probably reached market saturation at this point. Keep in mind that consoles are pretty durable and lots of people buy used. The Switch 2 isn't selling well yet since it has the PS3 disease (no games).

Anyways, the economy is probably bad but I don't think Nintendo Switch sales are much of an indicator for that.

Larrikin•3m ago
Nintendo indicated when the Switch 2 was launching that they were going to do their best to ensure a large supply and make sure actual players were prioritized. They did not want resellers to be profitable and did not want to create a situation like the PlayStation.

It still sold out and was a little difficult to get on release, but consoles came out at a pretty quick pace and resellers basically could not unload their stock for a profit. It became a bit of a joke about the resellers not being able to unload their stock because stores were getting replenishment stocks so often and Nintendo was constantly sending out emails to players saying they had been selected to buy directly from Nintendo.

I had my personal Switch 2 from the store within about a month of casual checking around and got one for a Christmas gift directly from Nintendo the next week.

mullingitover•18m ago
May as well call this what it is: stagflation.

The anemic employment market calls for lower rates, but inflation still persistently being 50% higher than it should be calls for rate hikes.

My prediction: this inflation isn't going away without viciously painful rate hikes. It'll probably get worse.

martythemaniak•10m ago
With Trump appointing himself Fed chair after jpow's term is over get ready for jazz hands more unprecedented times!
xnx•8m ago
Stagflation or vibecession? Surveys say people feel down about the economy, but their spending says otherwise.
misterbishop•17m ago
We're living through an extended recession statistically masked by the AI bubble.
ChrisArchitect•13m ago
Related:

U.S. jobs disappear at fastest January pace since great recession

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46925669

bitwize•3m ago
The economy is getting one-shotted by AI.
JohnTHaller•3m ago
Word on the street is the January numbers are about to get revised down by a good bit.
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