it's not surprising the whole project isn't useful for anything if they don't embrace genai for speeding up the development
MonkeyClub•27m ago
Whoever needs more slop faster can easily find it elsewhere, if PostmarketOS doesn't want to follow the trend, that's well and good.
ACCount37•23m ago
Weird stance to take.
I can understand "untested AI-genned code is bad, and thus anything that reeks of AI is going to be scrutinized" - especially given that PostmarketOS deals a lot with kernel drivers for hardware. Notoriously low error margins. But they just had to go out of their way and make it ideological rather than pragmatic.
yehoshuapw•19m ago
as a kernel developer, I use LLMs for some tasks, but can say it is not there yet to write real kernel space code
ACCount37•14m ago
Same.
Having an LLM helps, especially when you're facing a new subsystem you're not familiar with, and trying to understand how things are done there. They still can't do the heavy duty driver work by themselves - but are good enough for basic guidance and boilerplate.
trollbridge•13m ago
Guidance and boilerplate... in other words, documentation.
crimsonnoodle58•9m ago
Exactly, you can use it for some tasks. But why "explicitly forbid generative AI".
If you use AI to make repetitive tasks less repetitive, and clean up any LLM-ness afterwards, would they notice or care?
I find blanket bans inhibitive, and reeks of fear of change, rather than a real substantive stance.
jonathrg•6m ago
They explain why in their AI policy. It's an ethical stance. Of course they wouldn't notice if there aren't clear signs of LLM-ness, but that's not the main reason why they forbid it.
The AI policy linked from the OP explains why. It's half not wanting to deal with slop, and half ethical issues which apply even if it's used in a non-sloppy way.
jonathrg•19m ago
It's fine for a project to have moral/ideological leanings, it's only weird if you insist that project teams should be entirely amoral.
trollbridge•13m ago
The main reason open source projects exist at all is because of people who started them with quite often fringe ideological leanings. Just look at the GNU project.
Joker_vD•4m ago
And fringe economical leanings, too. Just look at the GNU project: the firmware in printers is still of subpar quality, and GNU didn't really help to change that... and why on Earth would it, anyway?
Joker_vD•6m ago
> It's fine for a project to have moral/ideological leanings
As long as they align with the correct (i.e. yours) values, of course. When they adopt the wrong values, it's not fine.
jonathrg•4m ago
But it is fine. If I disagree with a project's values I'm not going to contribute to it, and they wouldn't want me there either.
ForHackernews•20m ago
No one is stopping you from vibe-coding a POSIX-compatible mobile OS.
surgical_fire•16m ago
Yes, the famously useless PosmarketOS.
Why don't you share the list of very useful things you created instead, mono442?
jonathrg•33m ago
Very happy to see PostmarketOS take an uncompromising stance and also providing justification for it.
chasil•28m ago
I do not understand why Lineage insists on waiting for eBPF back ports when PostmarketOS has a far newer kernel running on the same hardware.
9cb14c1ec0•22m ago
Core Android functionality relies on eBPF in a way that PostmarketOS does not. PostmarketOS is much more of a linux distro than Android is. They are not every comparable.
mono442•39m ago
MonkeyClub•27m ago
ACCount37•23m ago
I can understand "untested AI-genned code is bad, and thus anything that reeks of AI is going to be scrutinized" - especially given that PostmarketOS deals a lot with kernel drivers for hardware. Notoriously low error margins. But they just had to go out of their way and make it ideological rather than pragmatic.
yehoshuapw•19m ago
ACCount37•14m ago
Having an LLM helps, especially when you're facing a new subsystem you're not familiar with, and trying to understand how things are done there. They still can't do the heavy duty driver work by themselves - but are good enough for basic guidance and boilerplate.
trollbridge•13m ago
crimsonnoodle58•9m ago
If you use AI to make repetitive tasks less repetitive, and clean up any LLM-ness afterwards, would they notice or care?
I find blanket bans inhibitive, and reeks of fear of change, rather than a real substantive stance.
jonathrg•6m ago
https://docs.postmarketos.org/policies-and-processes/develop...
jsheard•4m ago
The AI policy linked from the OP explains why. It's half not wanting to deal with slop, and half ethical issues which apply even if it's used in a non-sloppy way.
jonathrg•19m ago
trollbridge•13m ago
Joker_vD•4m ago
Joker_vD•6m ago
As long as they align with the correct (i.e. yours) values, of course. When they adopt the wrong values, it's not fine.
jonathrg•4m ago
ForHackernews•20m ago
surgical_fire•16m ago
Why don't you share the list of very useful things you created instead, mono442?