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/e/OS is a complete "deGoogled", mobile ecosystem

https://e.foundation/e-os/
116•doener•1h ago

Comments

lpcvoid•1h ago
There's absolutely no reason to use /e/ when GrapheneOS exists.

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

preisschild•1h ago
And even if GOS doesn't support your device (due to minimum security requirements) why not use upstream LineageOS?
przmk•1h ago
Because upstream LineageOS doesn't support microg out of the box. You can install it but it needs signature spoofing to pass Google's SafetyNet garbage. Bonus point for some roms that allow you to relock the bootloader after the install (iodéOS, CalyxOS).
wolvoleo•35m ago
Lineageos supports signature spoofing for microG these days! It did take them a long time to come around but they did in the end.
FireInsight•1h ago
Unless you own some obscure phone that is not supported by GOS, Calyx or Iode, but is by /e/... Not sure how many of those exist...
miroljub•1h ago
But GrapheneOS doesn't exist. It works only on a few devices created by Google, so their claim of being degoogled is a bit funny.
flexagoon•1h ago
> their claim of being degoogled is a bit funny.

I don't think they use this term anywhere.

It also now works on Motorola devices, it's on my HN feed literally right above this post.

szmarczak•58m ago
I have no idea where you got this information - the HN post is about partnership. It does not work on Motorola devices, at least not yet [1].

[1] https://grapheneos.org/releases

krige•56m ago
It doesn't "now work"; it may work on a future Motorola device that doesn't exist yet.
wolvoleo•34m ago
It doesn't yet work on Motorola devices.

It is going to become available on selected Motorola devices at some point in the future.

_ache_•53m ago
I must agree, you are right, GOS is only on Pixel phones.

But we have to keep in mind that /e/ has a lot of problems, the only one solved is sending data to Google. The security aspect of the OS is problematic and some key elements of a privacy seem questioning (IA integration, commercial collaborations, ...).

chrisjj•38m ago
What IA?
soufron•9m ago
Like what problems? I am using /e/ daily for myself and my family, and it's working like a charm.
dns_snek•50m ago
GOS is degoogled in all the ways that I care about - it's about the data they can gather. Among all the smartphone options that I consider usable day to day (leaving only Android and iOS at the moment), GOS is the most private and secure.
izacus•43m ago
/e/OS is Android, meaning it's still critically dependent on goodwill of Google to continue releasing their work as part of AOSP.

So if you're trying to be a silly purist, then /e/OS doesn't fit either. If you're not, getting a Pixel will significantly enhance your safety since they're better supported for security patches and better designed in hardware when it comes to security.

eloisant•35m ago
> /e/OS is Android

So is GrapheneOS

Arch-TK•39m ago
Google's hardware is just hardware. It is not locked down like the hardware of many other manufacturers. Moreover, it's the only such hardware which also allows you, the user, to lock it down for your own security. GrapheneOS is not just focused around avoiding Google, it's more accurately focused around security and user choice.

The goal is to give you the option to avoid needing to rely on Google's spying or services while not having to compromise on security.

None of these other solutions regularly get included in Celebrite's documentation as being an explicit benchmark of their software's ability to break into phones. And that's almost certainly due to the fact that unless you leverage hardware security features like what GrapheneOS (and stock Android on a Pixel, and iOS on an iPhone) utilises, you have no chance of going against any actual adversaries.

And I'm not just talking about state actors here, even drive-by opportunistic attacks are likelier on a random other phone running some other Android build.

So yeah, you are running Google hardware, that doesn't make you "googled". It's just a sad reflection on the reality of the hardware landscape. If you want the same security as what GrapheneOS offers, you will currently need to use a Pixel.

I'd be curious to see what comes out of their Motorola partnership though.

fragmede•32m ago
The post about Graphene partnering with Motorola is right about this one, currently, (Lenovo bought Motorola from Google in 2014.), so that point will no longer be valid as soon as they ship something.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47214645

mrbn100ful•55m ago
Not everything have to be perfect.

For some user, /e/ is more approachable (Friendly and colorful UI)

I could not get my mother to use GrapheneOS, /e/ is a lot simpler.

Still miles better than to use a Default ROM from most OEM.

ploum•36m ago
Exactly!

If you can use GrapheneOS, good for you but what /e/OS offers is:

- Usable Android with your usual Android app (banking, etc) - No data sent to Google by default - Easier interface with nearly no bloatware - Available easily on many smartphones, including older ones - Extending the life of some smartphones

The price to pay is:

- Some Murena cloud bloatware - Android security patches are sometimes delayed - Security is not on par with GrapheneOS

If your main concern is protecting your privacy from Google and extending the life of your smartphone without breaking a sweat, /e/OS is probably the best option.

If your main concern is protecting against state actors attacks or very specific threats, then GrapheneOS might be better.

/e/OS works really great for non-techie users. I’ve done it in my family.

soufron•9m ago
Same story. Also with my mother :D
wolvoleo•36m ago
There is when you have a phone that isn't a pixel.
StingyJelly•28m ago
Even on non-pixel devices, unless you really want to use the /e/ "ecosystem, there are probably better options like LineageOS for microG iodéOS.

(/e/ used to be heavily based on an outdated version of LineageOS for microG. I'm not sure what the current state is after I settled on second-hand pixel with graphene)

Vinnl•18m ago
iodé is available for my device as well, but it looked fairly similar to /e/OS to me (and the latter has an official partnership with my phone's manufacturer). What makes it a better option - should I switch?
geff82•1h ago
How is the experience in practice? What works, what doesn't? Are updates prompt and regular?
_Soulou•59m ago
Overall, everything works pretty well for me (user for multiple years), except all apps which are too bound too Google Play Services as microG is not stubbing/implementing all APIs.

So all apps with premium subscription you can only handle through in-app purchase, usually won't work.

I've heard that some banking apps are not working correctly either as not "secured" enough device, in my personal experience, they all worked, it's really a case-by-case logics here.

For the upgrade, OTA upgrade around every month, and it has always worked smoothly

purkka•1h ago
I wonder how this compares to GrapheneOS in practice.

>Operated by Murena, your Murena Workspace account @murena.io is at the centre of the ecosystem, allowing to store, back up and retrieve your data safely on remote servers.

This sounds like their version is somewhat married to Murena. While probably better than Google, still not independent.

They're also advertising features such as "hiding your IP address [...] when you feel like it" – which sounds a lot like a VPN – without mentioning much about who the traffic is going through or how they might log it.

amelius•59m ago
Yeah it really looks like they are trying to solve too many things.

This is usually not a good sign.

I'd prefer to have an OS provider that does one thing well.

bramhaag•39m ago
> I wonder how this compares to GrapheneOS in practice.

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm is a fairly complete comparison. One of GrapheneOS' biggest features is that they sandbox Google services (if you choose to install them), whereas e/OS gives them privileged access by default (via microG). Calling it a "degoogled" OS while microG uses Google's proprietary blobs is... a choice.

The GrapheneOS developers are very sceptical of e/OS (https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/search?f=tweets&q=e/os), but you should obviously take biases into account here. Murena's CEO occasionally participates too: https://xcancel.com/gael_duval/search?f=tweets&q=grapheneos

Vinnl•30m ago
I'm on /e/OS and don't use Murena Workspace (which I think is just a Nextcloud instance that they host). For the past couple of years in which I've used it, I have felt zero pressure to use Murena Workspace. Though I imagine it might be neat if you host your own Nextcloud instance, which might be nicely integrated too.

(That said, yes, I don't quite trust their VPN or app store, since it's unclear who's running it - in the latter's case, I imagine that's also a legal matter.)

ninjasmosa•6m ago
The hide your ip address feature routes your traffic through Tor: https://doc.e.foundation/support-topics/advanced_privacy#hid...

You can do this on any other android device using an app like Orbot or Tor VPN beta

goldenarm•1h ago
Tweaking user-hostile OSes into user-friendly ones is impressive, but not sustainable. Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely.

Look at the AdBlocker crackdown of Google Chrome. Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it, because it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser that Google spends >$1B/year to develop.

Same story for /e/ and GrapheneOS, the day Google pulls the plug on source code releases, god knows how long they will last. We should focus our efforts on truly open platforms.

amelius•1h ago
You don't have to use Chrome or Chromium.
goldenarm•1h ago
Yes fortunately we have browser alternatives.

But on mobile, my bank and my government force me to use the Android/iOS duopoly.

jonathanstrange•20m ago
How do they do that? I'm not doubting that, it's an honest question. I understand how this works on Apple phones but I don't understand why an identity or attestation service cannot be replaced by another one by the alternative operating system when the hardware is not controlled by Google. Does Google have keys in tamper-proof chips? How else would those banks determine their apps are on the right phone? Or do those apps use Google authentication directly over the Internet, using hard-coded Google public keys?
well_ackshually•7m ago
Depending on the level of security you ask for Play Integrity, it can be:

* is this device rooted, is it an unsigned build ?

* Device is signed, but is it part of the blessed signing keys ? is play services untampered with ?

* Additional checks over the lifetime of the device.

You could fully trust the results of Play Integrity on device, but you can also send the returned token to your server, and your server then contacts play integrity to validate that token. So unless you know how to spoof those encrypted tokens, you won't go very far.

https://developer.android.com/google/play/integrity/overview

wiseowise•55m ago
Chrome is just an example. Google stopped pretending Android is a general purpose OS and started cracking down on what is possible without Google’s approval. See developer verification, everything within Google services, etc.
fransje26•21m ago
The irony of this is that when using Firefox to browse to /e/OS url to check for compatible devices:

https://e.foundation/installer/

I get a pop-up telling me that my browser is not compatible, and I should use Edge, Opera or Chrome. See [1]

[1] https://imgur.com/a/al1Q9DM

preisschild•53m ago
> We should focus our efforts on truly open platforms.

But currently AOSP is very much open. That's also what the GrapheneOS devs say and why they want to continue using Android. Until it becomes clear that they will completely stop releasing the source code under a free software license i dont see why one should not use Android.

goldenarm•40m ago
AOSP dev went private, and Google is slower and slower at releasing the source, now twice a year. Worse, many stock apps like the Dialer and Gallery went closed-source years ago.

But the source isn't the point, it's the governance. Just like Chrome, having the source is not enough to guarantee an open platform. Sure you can disable telemetry flags. But you cannot afford to maintain an important feature Google wants to remove, like MV2.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/03/google-makes-android... https://www.androidauthority.com/android-16-qpr1-source-code...

auggierose•6m ago
The problem is, if you cannot afford to maintain it, how could you afford to both build AND maintain your own version of it?
charcircuit•46m ago
Chrome did not crack down on adblockers in Chrome. In fact the chromium team worked together with adblockers on mv3.

>it is impossible to maintain features that complex on a browser

While Chromium is complex, it is modularized which does make it possible for teams to maintain features.

r-w•41m ago
> Every single chrome-fork has shut down MV2 extensions, even Brave is about to do it

Source?

goldenarm•37m ago
Brave said they'll try to maintain limited support for MV2 for only 4 specific extensions, but recommend Brave Shields as the go-to adblocker for the future. Google is about to remove most of the MV2 code from the codebase, which will explode the complexity soon.

https://brave.com/blog/brave-shields-manifest-v3/

wolvoleo•29m ago
Brave has perverse incentives to discontinue it because of their BAT crypto business model that rewards looking at ads.

Unfortunately even the fully open source Firefox isn't immune to the pressure from the advertising industry, with all their Google funding and their purchase of anonym.

Vinnl•33m ago
> Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely.

I appreciate the vibes where this is coming from, but does it really? I think that assumes that everyone that works on this would work on a true open source OS otherwise, and that if they did, that would result in us breaking free from Android where we otherwise wouldn't. I'm not confident about either of those assumptions.

Meanwhile I'll keep complaining to orgs that don't allow me to work through their website, and tell them that their app won't work on my phone.

goldenarm•26m ago
There are more OSS devs active on Android ROMs than OSS devs working on independent mobile OSes. We are running out of time, and we are misallocating ressources.

It's like bailing out water from the Titanic. We should prepare the lifeboats instead.

trelliumD•12m ago
True, SailfishOS :-)
well_ackshually•17m ago
>Even worse, it slowing us down from leaving Android entirely.

There are zero OSes that are 1/ open source 2/ appropriate for phones 3/ with good hardware support. There's absolutely nothing. Running Ubuntu Touch isn't a viable option. Neither is postmarket, librem, tizen, they're all terrible. Security wise, for something as critically important in our lives as a smartphone, I am also not trusting any new pet project that won't be stable for 10 years.

Sure, you might be a poweruser that doesn't care about your phone burning its battery in your pocket after 1 hour because you know how to SSH on it from your watch and put it in sleep, but that's not a viable option. Leaving Android is suicide. A large part of its critical underpinnings are already into the kernel anyways, just disabled. (although a distro running binder could be a fun project). APIs are reverse engineerable generally speaking, except for the server part of play services. But then, if your issue is "my bank won't let me access their app without play services attesting me", I have great news, you won't even have an app for it on your new OS anyways, so it will not work by default. There's already not enough people working on GrapheneOS _or_ on mainstream linux OSes, what makes you think the sitation won't be ten times worse for your custom made mobile OS ?

>We should focus our efforts on truly open platforms.

Android is one, and that can never be taken away. Google pulls the plug ? cool, you're stuck on Android 17, which is centuries of work ahead of literally anything else in the open source community. Hell, for all the shit that Google is doing, they're still constrained by having to work with other vendors: the system privileged notification receiver is swappable at build time, the recent app signing/verification system also is, because Samsung wouldn't let them control it all.

goldenarm•11m ago
I do agree, mobile OSS OSes are rough. My point is that we should help them instead of helping Google's toxic relationship. It happened with Chrome/Blink, and everyone already forgot that lesson.

About hard-forking Android, no one was brave enough (pun intended) to do that for Chrome, considering the insane complexity and engineering costs (>$1B/y). (Only Apple was able to affort it with Webkit/Safari, but they are in the ad business too.)

octoclaw•59m ago
The timing of this post right below the Motorola/GrapheneOS partnership is pretty funny.

I've been running /e/OS on a Fairphone for about a year now. The experience is... fine. Not great. App compatibility is the main pain point. Banking apps are hit or miss even with microG. Updates lag behind GrapheneOS significantly.

The Murena cloud stuff is the part that bothers me most. You're trading one cloud dependency for another. At least with GrapheneOS you get a clean slate and can choose your own sync solution (Nextcloud, whatever).

That said, /e/ supports way more devices than GrapheneOS does. For people who can't or won't buy a Pixel (or now Motorola), it's one of the few options. The real question is whether the Motorola partnership changes the calculus. If GrapheneOS gets proper OEM support, the device limitation argument mostly goes away.

eMPee584•59m ago
PostmarketOS is a complete degoogled mobile ecosystem, actually. How about we commit resources into that?
amelius•40m ago
I don't like names that are difficult to google.

But then again, maybe that's the point :)

chrisjj•39m ago
Nice, but....

> a unique privacy enhanced environment.

... consider proofreading.

janmarsal•29m ago
Not that it matters but I just noticed certain titles on their website can be edited. For example the text "Use our /e/OS Installer" can be modified and I noticed it because I accidentally pasted my clipboard there. I suppose contenteditable should be set to "false".

fuck me i'm doing work even though i should be working right now

fransje26•19m ago
The irony of advertising a privacy-enabled de-googled system, and then telling me that my Firefox browser is not support, and that I should use Edge, Opera or Chrome instead....

Browsing:

https://e.foundation/installer/

Reply:

https://imgur.com/a/al1Q9DM

RoryH•16m ago
Hmmm, It seems to require the WebUSB API: https://caniuse.com/?search=webusb
amiga386•11m ago
If the site can detect that it can't use WebUSB, it can give you instructions on how to download and flash the mobile OS, not tell you to fuck off.

Compare: https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/tokay/

onli•7m ago
That's not an installer, that's a device page.

It's the specific functionality needed here that Firefox lacks that makes the /e/ page show the warning, unlike the lineage page that does not have the problem in the first place.

herrherrmann•7m ago
Absolutely. This is handled very badly, and I was also surprised about the bad UX on that screen.
pbasista•3m ago
This is related to Firefox unwilling to add support for WebUSB because, I suppose, they believe that a browser is not a general purpose application launcher and the scope of what it can do should be limited. As such, it should not be allowed to e.g. control peripherals like the USB devices.

Which is in my opinion a fairly reasonable take.

But given the current situation, I would assume that the companies providing WebUSB tools like installers would also spend a few moments to create e.g. a Python script that would do the same thing but locally. So that anyone unwilling to use WebUSB within their browser can have a vetted and transparent way to get the same thing done.

bluebarbet•18m ago
Got a "Your browser is not supported" error for using Firefox on their website (device compatibility page).

Very poor first impression.

trelliumD•14m ago
I have both a Jolla C2 phone, and an E/Os device, on a nothing CMS1 phone. Both are great. I like the Jolla Phone for its SailfishOS, which has great UI/Ux. I am less enthusiastic about the hardware. (good enough though) The E/OS really is good, all apps work good, and really much is done for privacy protection. But if the hardware is more performant, and with a few extra features i'd still opt for SailfishOS
soufron•10m ago
Well E/OS is mainly about privacy. And about getting rid of Google. And it works. To me that's more important and it's a better vision.
madeofpalk•8m ago
Why is this a complete graphical clone of (old version) iOS?

This seems like the worst of both worlds.

ralferoo•6m ago
Honestly, I don't quite understand this.

I get the appeal of degoogling, but this seems to just be replacing that with alternatives run by another commercial company, just one I've never heard of before.

Why does it even need "One account for your privacy" ... "Operated by Murena, your Murena Workspace account @murena.io is at the centre of the ecosystem" when it'd be even better to have everything on-device without an account at all.

Even more, Murena seems to be owned by Qwant who seem to be in the business of selling a search engine, and while they currently claim to be all about user privacy, this is basically exactly how Google started nearly 30 years ago.

I wonder if they'd be happy if, for instance, somebody took this system and debundled Murena and switched it to using duckduckgo. Would they embrace that too, or sue them into oblivion?

ergocoder•5m ago
I worked at Google before, so I trust Google more than these random organizations that claim they are better than Google at handling sensitive info.
rapnie•3m ago
That is all nice and well, but Google is primarily an advertisement business. So that gives us non-Googlers more than just that consideration to take into account.

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