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System76 on Age Verification Laws

https://blog.system76.com/post/system76-on-age-verification/
76•LorenDB•2h ago

Comments

akersten•45m ago
Aaaaand to throw it all away at the end with "well when the rubber meets the road we'll comply anyway, thanks for inhaling my hot air." Take a damn stand and dare them to sue the hacker known as Linux or whatever.
sahilkerkar•39m ago
I'd say that anger is better directed towards the legislators in charge of creating these absurd policies, not the folks at System76. It's not reasonable to expect a company to sacrifice its entire business on a moral battlefield.
jrm4•30m ago
Right, but in turn it is absolutely reasonable and good for consumers to threaten a company with (legal) harm or extinction on a moral battlefield.
bitwize•29m ago
Age attestation (edited) is the law now in California. Noncompliance can mean stiff penalties. If you don't like it, write your Congressman.
rockskon•23m ago
*attestation, not verification
arjie•44m ago
tl;dr they don't like them and don't want them in place but will comply
Tyrubias•41m ago
I don’t like to shill for companies, but I’m glad System76 made a statement. The addendum does feel like their legal team made them add it though:

> Some of these laws impose requirements on System76 and Linux distributions in general. The California law, and Colorado law modeled after it, were agreed in concert with major operating system providers. Should this method of age attestation become the standard, apps and websites will not assume liability when a signal is not provided and assume the lowest age bracket. Any Linux distribution that does not provide an age bracket signal will result in a nerfed internet for their users.

> We are accustomed to adding operating system features to comply with laws. Accessibility features for ADA, and power efficiency settings for Energy Star regulations are two examples. We are a part of this world and we believe in the rule of law. We still hope these laws will be recognized for the folly they are and removed from the books or found unconstitutional.

Anyways, it feels like all sides of the political spectrum are trying to strip away any semblance of anonymity or privacy online both in the US and abroad. No one should have to provide any personal details to use any general computing device. Otherwise, given the pervasive tracking done by corporations and the rise of constant surveillance outdoors, there will be nowhere for people to safely gather and express themselves freely and privately.

panja•25m ago
Gotta find a way to profitability I suppose
piraccini•40m ago
I love Pop!_OS (and Cosmic) but if they start with this bullshit I need to switch to other Linux distributions. Worst case, will build my own...
byproxy•17m ago
What constitutes "this bullshit"?
hellojesus•39m ago
Are these laws not 1A violations due to code being speech and the gov not being allowed to compel speech?
dragonwriter•37m ago
To the extent code is functional rather than expressive it is not speech, and when the government seeks to compel code, it generally seeks to compel function not expressive content.

(That doesn’t mean it is not a bad idea, and even perhaps unconstitutional for other reasons.)

arcfour•33m ago
Code is speech, though, and is protected by the first amendment: see Bernstein v. United States.

I don't think a cryptographic algorithm is "expressive" any more than it is purely functional; indeed, the 9th circuit evaluated and rejected the expressive/functional distinction for source code in the above case.

Regardless - code is speech, and the government cannot compel or prevent speech except in very narrow circumstances.

johncolanduoni•21m ago
Very narrow circumstances like the DMCA? I don’t think the jurisprudence is as simple as you’re making it out to be.
LoganDark•19m ago
Code may be speech, but the functional characteristics of systems that happen to rely on code may not always also be speech.
dragonwriter•11m ago
> Code is speech, though, and is protected by the first amendment: see Bernstein v. United States.

That is very much overstating the holding in the case [0], the most relevant part of which seems to be:

“encryption software, in its source code form and as employed by those in the field of cryptography, must be viewed as expressive for First Amendment purposes”

The ruling spends a key bit of analysis discussing the expressive function of source code in this field as distinct from the function of object code in controlling a computer.

A law compelling providing functionality which it is merely most convenient to comply with by creating source code as part of the process is not directing speech, any more than an law delivery of physical goods where the most convenient method of doing so involves interacting by speech with the person who physically holds them on your behalf is.

[0] text here: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/case/reporter/F3/176/176.F3d...

panny•7m ago
>A law compelling providing functionality

That's forced labor. I'm not required to write a line of code to please anyone. It's free software with no warranty. They have LLMs, let's see them build it. :)

cyberax•33m ago
The age verification laws are awesome!

I mean... How else would you educate children about computers and evading stupid restrictions?

jrm4•29m ago
I mean, genuine question, is Linux Mint or MX Linux endangered by this?

Unless I'm missing something, I have zero concern for companies who sell out by complying.

The code was "free as in freedom" when you decided to build your company on it; and while you're not legally obligated to defend that freedom, and I, and hopefully other consumers, find that you are morally obligated to.

pgn674•16m ago
I think this is the way that Linux desktop distributions are endangered, quoting from the article: "... apps and websites will not assume liability when a signal is not provided and assume the lowest age bracket. Any Linux distribution that does not provide an age bracket signal will result in a nerfed internet for their users."
k310•28m ago
I have to wonder

A. If end users will mod their distros to send a "signal" (TBD?) to websites.

B. If end users will just grab a pirate OS with apps compiled to not care about age.

Hopefully the latest TAILS I downloaded is free of Big (over 18) Brother. And (A)

Or just compile, Gentoo and LFS style.

C. If pirates just take care of all this for friends and neighbors.

D. When, not if, this unconstitutional coercion is challenged in court and cancelled via petition. Remember Proposition 8?

al_borland•20m ago
> Throwing them into the deep end when they’re 16 or 18 is too late.

I saw this a lot in college. Kids that didn’t have any freedom or autonomy while living at home went wild in college. They had no idea how to self-regulate. A lot of them failed out. Those who didn’t had some rough years. Sheltering kids for too long seems to do more harm than good. At least if they run into issues while still children, their parents can be there to help them through it so they can better navigate on their own once they move out.

trinsic2•9m ago
I have been saying this all along. You can't prevent kids from getting around restrictions. All you can do is try to help them understand what they find on the other side and what some options are. Age-gating is just a way to push forward a surveillance agenda. The fact thats happening everywhere all at once proves my point.
dylan604•7m ago
>You can prevent kids from getting around restrictions

I'm guessing you meant can't

trinsic2•7m ago
Yes. Fixed
ArchieScrivener•8m ago
California and Colorado do not get to govern out of state residence, thats interstate commerce and its federal domain, period.

The time is coming where we will unseat legislative traitors who use EU/Old World manipulations in the USA.

An unjust law is no law at all. That is the exception the rule of law requires to remain moral.

heavyset_go•5m ago
Just a reminder of what liability the CA age verification law imposes upon developers and providers.

It's not enough to adhere to the OS age signal:

> (3) (A) Except as provided in subparagraph (B), a developer shall treat a signal received pursuant to this title as the primary indicator of a user’s age range for purposes of determining the user’s age.

> (B) If a developer has internal clear and convincing information that a user’s age is different than the age indicated by a signal received pursuant to this title, the developer shall use that information as the primary indicator of the user’s age.

Developers are still burdened with additional liability if they have reason to believe users are underage, even if their age flag says otherwise.

The only way to mitigate this liability is to confirm your users are of age with facial and ID scans, as it is implemented across platforms already. Not doing so opens you up to liability if someone ever writes "im 12 lol" on your app/platform.

choonway•5m ago
this is how and adult sounds like in a room full of children.

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