The market is there , product is loved and ppeople have proved they are willing to take some pain adopting the product.But still the execution to serve that market is shambolic to say the least.
> LTE FDD: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 17, 18, 19, 20, 25, 26, 28AB, 66
> LTE TDD: 34, 38, 39, 40, 41
> 5G NR: n1, n2, n3, n5, n7, n8, n12, n20, n26, n28, n38, n40, n41, n66, n77, n78
But I have no idea if that means it'll work for you in the US/elsewhere.
Yeah, that's a fun part of the crazy bandplan for lte/5g where it's just a little here and there without global coordination.
But a look here [1], says it has all 5G bands for AT&T, 2/4 bands for TMo, and 4/5 for Verizon. Seems maybe a bit iffy for TMo, one of the missing bands is n71 (600 MHz) which is extended range that helps fill in coverage.
It's not an improvement over common closed source Android varieties either, and will certainly have worse app compatibility than Android. Hardware switches are irrelevant if you can't trust the software.
So yeah, GrapheneOS isn't 100% OSS, as far as I'm aware. But it doesn't expose me to more proprietary stuff like Jolla would.
Well, Motorola is already doing that :)
I for one is happy that there is at least someone out there not happy with the status quo and go with something completely different and homegrown instead of just going with customizing Android and calling it a day.
Also, what's up with all the sour grapes from people who use or develop GrapheneOS? There seems to be a general force dismissing Sailfish as insecure, without ever explaning how. Can't we just be friends in a de-googled world? Are people from Graphene feeling insecure about Sailfish as competition? It feels to me like infighting in small churches. It turns me off from ever considering GrapheneOS before I even looked into it.
/e/OS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1946269698498105813
iodéOS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1892555359656534284
CalyxOS: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1953856218931376421
Unplugged: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1861593971685798351
PinePhone: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1964441930760409499
Kicksecure: https://forums.kicksecure.com/t/grapheneos-attacks-kicksecur...
Purism Librem 5 and Pinephone: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47260196
Anyway, it's as secure as any Linux distro as it uses the same standard stack as servers and desktops and does sandboxing[1], which is also really nice from a development perspective. You can harden it like you would a Linux box using standard Linux tools + kernel features.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Software_architect...
- company folded and changed hand multiple times, including russian ownership
- the tablet scandal leaving users with lost funds
- closed source parts
- locked bootloader
- charging a $50 device reset fee
- not much change in Sailfish OS since ages
- buggy Android compatibility and near zero native devs, all jumped ship
At this point I think they are just one of the grifters preying on naive "EU first" supporters shoveling whatever they still have in a new casing.
I'd love the idea of a greenfield EU Linux mobile OS, but I don't think it should come from this company.
Could*, maybe than should, unless you believe that all those things will apply to the phone they plan to release in September. Otherwise I don't see the issue with a company keep trying until they get something right (or give up). Why not?
on the other, I really, really loved my original jolla phone back in the day. I happily used it as my daily driver and only phone for 2 years. Until it had a hardware fault which I could no longer repair via the company.
Realistically building a production quality database takes 10 years. Building a production quality game engine takes 10 years.
They're building a mobile operating system and the hardware it runs on; that's harder and a moving target.
How long do you think it takes to build a supply chain of hardware that doesn't suck (if it takes 2 years to get moving: you need to start with hardware specs for 2 years from now) and an operating system that doesn't suck when you're also trying to catch up to a major duopoly cranking out devices at an unfathomable volume, with more money than most nation states?
Your standard is "succeed against Google and Apple within 13 years on a shoestring budget with no volume discounts." How can any project clear that bar?
What would you do?
Absolutely not. My standard is the many other AOSP-based ROMs communities and companies that were founded around them, having success within a few years - yes, they could lean on the ecosystem compatibility and didn't produce their own hardware, but maybe that's a more viable way to start?
"shoestring budget with no volume discounts" does not explain the points of criticism above.
Sailfish is spiritually MeeGo: actual Linux on the phone, not a custom skin on Google's foundations. Obviously it's faster to build a kit-car than a car factory, I don't see how that's a rebuttal, it's an entirely different conversation.
An AOSP fork on Qualcomm hardware isn't independence. Jolla are actually trying to build the factory.
The $50 fee and tablet scandal are fair hits- but fuck-ups don't make you a grifter, and we've forgiven larger players far worse.
You still haven't said what you'd actually do.
But even if you insist on a non-AOSP way: Supporting any other, more well regarded projects and initiatives? Random top of my head idea: motivate Fairphone (Denmark) to adopt some non-android OS like Ubuntu Touch?
Because its existence relies on a good will of Google. See:
Google will allow only apps from verified developers to be installed on Android (9to5google.com)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45017028
and
GrapheneOS accessed Android security patches but not allowed to publish sources (grapheneos.social)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45208925
> Any large enough entity can fork.
Only megacorps will likely be able to support a hard fork for such a large codebase.
> Hundreds already did, successfully.
Which of them are hard forks? China will not be a benevolent dictator of AOSP
> Fairphone
It's Android again.
There are indeed non-Android alternatives, but not in Europe. I use Librem 5 btw.
I think the chance of Google completely closing AOSP is pretty small, AOSP being open maintains a power equilibrium between Google and other OEMs. Closing up AOSP carries the huge risk that Samsung and some other big OEMs will fork it and Google has essentially lost the whole market overnight. I am pretty sure this is why Samsung phones also have the Galaxy Store with a bunch of apps like Netflix in it. The Galaxy Store is Samsung's subtle message to Google saying: don't try to rein us in, we can cut you out.
That said, even if Google closes AOSP, forking it and maintaining it as an open project is going to be far less work than brining Sailfish OS to the level of polish, security, etc. of AOSP.
Sure, but somehow RCS is viable in 2026. Old projects can come back!
Their UI looked novel, but wasn't that great in practice. It wasn't stable (hopefully that changed) and the lack of real apps was killing it before and now even more, as more banks/govs require some "trusted" apps
And, to my eyes, it simply looks better.
Europeans, I guess good luck, have fun. I followed them in the early days and ran early builds of Sailfish on the N9, had high hopes but have long given up on them.
EDIT: I will say though I'm still impressed by the libhybris project which went on to make it possible to run linux distros on android SoC's, but the guy who did that for Jolla I think is not with the company anymore for some time.
Considering you almost can't do banking, and in some places interact with the government, without a locked down phone...
My bank closed down their old online banking site and the new one needs the phone for 2FA... but ... drumroll ...
... the idiots also want me to keep using the token device to log in before approving the log in via my phone.
Security theater.
I refuse to have my browser fingerprinted as a "trusted device" because part my bank is just bad at it.
[1] https://xdaforums.com/t/discussion-the-root-and-mod-hiding-f...
I'm pretty sure that, if there are security benefits, they have been artificially tied to the use of the company's distribution method, that coincidentally really needs to be sending usage statistics, monitoring, etc. Surely there exist no conflicts of interest to be found.
Not sure about equivalent apps for other regions, but I don't see why they shouldn't work.
[1] https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/swedish-bank-id-swish/11781/3
(I actually do not want to travel to the US, period. But that's a different story.)
Then I could become a PC in our pocket.
However, as I've got older I find large phones more and more unwieldy, and I couldn't find a small enough SailfishOS phone to switch to. I'm now running LineageOS on a Jelly Star. The form factor is perfect for me.
Would I return to SailfishOS? Absolutely. But there'd need to be a small phone in the line up for me to migrate to.
I ask, because the device is not officially supported by LineageOS, but if it works well with a different approach it would be an interesting option for me as well.
(But whether any EU member is capable of rising to this (very shallow) challenge... well, I'm justifiably cynical.)
ChrisArchitect•2h ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47216037