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The entities enabling scientific fraud at scale are large, resilient and growing

https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2420092122
54•peyton•1h ago

Comments

pixl97•46m ago
This is Goodhart's law at scale. Number of released papers/number of citations is a target. Correctness of those papers/citations is much more difficult so is not being used as a measure.

With that said, due to the apparent sizes of the fraud networks I'm not sure this will be easy to address. Having some kind of kill flag for individuals found to have committed fraud will be needed, but with nation state backing and the size of the groups this may quickly turn into a tit for tat where fraud accusations may not end up being an accurate signal.

May you live in interesting times.

armchairhacker•27m ago
There’s an accurate way to confirm fraud: look for inconsistencies and replicate experiments.

If the fraudsters “fail to replicate” legitimate experiments, ask them for details/proof, and replicate the experiment yourself while providing more details/proof. Either they’re running a different experiment, their details have inconsistencies, or they have unreasonable omissions.

wswope•13m ago
Yeah, but this happens all the time.

>>95% of the time, the fraudsters get off scot-free. Look at Dan Ariely: Caught red-handed faking data in Excel using the stupidest approach imaginable, and outed as a sex pest in the Epstein files. Duke is still giving him their full backing.

It’s easy to find fraud, but what’s the point if our institutions have rotten all the way through and don’t care, even when there’s a smoking gun?

gjsman-1000•43m ago
The future of science, the Internet, and all things: The Library of Babel by Jorge Luis Borges.

Some things should not have been democratized. Silicon Valley assumes that removing restrictions on information brings freedom, but reality shows that was naïve.

honeycrispy•40m ago
You shouldn't just assume that the inverse would be free from fraud. The incentives for fraud still apply even when the system is not democratized.
gjsman-1000•40m ago
Except with AI, a fraudulent gatekept world would still be a smaller percentage of fraud than what is coming. Infinite scale fraud.

The soviets may have rigged a few studies; but the democratized world now faces almost all studies being rigged.

honeycrispy•38m ago
I think it'd be a different form of fraud that would be much harder to discredit. Think sugar industry blaming fat for health issues. More of that.
rdevilla•29m ago
Tearing down gatekeeping (i.e. "high standards") in pursuit of maximal inclusivity is just another way of saying "regression to the mean."

The gate has been removed from the signal chain, and now the noise floor is at infinity.

qsera•12m ago
There is a saying in my native language that goes something like "If you mix poison and milk, the milk will turn poisonous, instead of poison becoming milk (aka beneficial)".

I guess, to convert it into this context, we can say that if you mix the high minded and infantile (which I think is what Internet and social media did), the high minded becomes infantile, instead of the other way around.

leoc•10m ago
In what way was it was democratised? We're not talking about Substacks and YouTube channels here, we're not even talking about arXiv preprints and the like, we're talking about peer-reviewed journal publications, and that system remains gated in much the same way that it was in the 1980s when it comes to trying to publish in it.
RobotToaster•31m ago
It kinda skips over how large mainstream journals, with their restrictive and often arbitrary standards, have contributed to this. Most will refuse to publish replications, negative studies, or anything they deem unimportant, even if the study was conducted correctly.
temporallobe•25m ago
My wife completed her PhD two years ago and she put a LOT of work into it. Many sleepless nights, and it almost destroyed our marriage. It took her about 6 years of non-stop madness and she didn’t even work during that time. She said that many of her colleagues engaged in fraudulent data generation and sometimes just complete forgery of anything and everything. It was obvious some people were barely capable of putting together coherent sentences in posts, but somehow they generated a perfect dissertation in the end. It was common knowledge that candidates often hired writers and even experts like statisticians to do most of the heavy lifting. I don’t know if this is the norm now, but I simultaneously have more respect and less respect for those doctoral degrees, knowing that some poured their heart and soul into it, while others essentially cheated their way through. OTOH, I also understand that there may be a lot of grey area.

My eyes have been opened!

titzer•17m ago
I found the article and your third-hand anecdotes troubling. The good news is that it does not match any of the years of experience in my field. Fraud is just not that rampant. At PhD-granting institutions, the level of fraud you describe here is very seriously punished. It's career-ending. The violations that you are serious enough that any institution would expel said students (or harshly punish faculty--probably firing them). She did no one any favors by not reporting them.

Unfortunately I don't think a dialogue around vague anecdotes is going to be particularly enlightening. What matters is culture, but also process--mechanisms and checks--plus consequences. Consequences don't happen if everyone is hush-hush about it and no one wants to be a "rat".

qsera•5m ago
>It's career-ending..

That is where being good at politics come into play. And if you are good at it, instead of being career-ending, fraud will put you in the highest of the positions!

No one wants a "plant" who cannot navigate scrutiny!

mistrial9•4m ago
yeah - skeptical here. Among certain departments, at large schools, under certain leaders.. The combination of "my marriage almost crumbled" for motivated reasoning, and "I have never seen any of this before" total inexperience with actual process.. the post shows itself to be biased and unreliable.

However, among certain departments, at large schools, under certain leaders.. yes, and growing

$0.02

fastaguy88•14m ago
It is useful to distinguish between "effective" scientific fraud, where some set of fraudulent papers are published that drive a discipline in an unproductive direction, and "administrative" scientific fraud, where individuals use pseudo-scientific measures (H-index, rankings, etc) to make allocation decisions (grants, tenure, etc). This article suggests that administrative scientific fraud has become more accessible, but it is very unclear whether this is having a major impact on science as it is practiced.

Non-scientists often seem to think that if a paper is published, it is likely to be true. Most practicing scientists are much more skeptical. When I read a that paper sounds interesting in a high impact journal, I am constantly trying to figure out whether I should believe it. If it goes against a vast amount of science (e.g. bacteria that use arsenic rather than phosphorus in their DNA), I don't believe it (and can think of lots of ways to show that it is wrong). In lower impact journals, papers make claims that are not very surprising, so if they are fraudulent in some way, I don't care.

Science has to be reproducible, but more importantly, it must be possible to build on a set of results to extend them. Some results are hard to reproduce because the methods are technically challenging. But if results cannot be extended, they have little effect. Science really is self-correcting, and correction happens faster for results that matter. Not all fraud has the same impact. Most fraud is unfortunate, and should be reduced, but has a short lived impact.

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