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The bespoke software revolution? I'm not buying it

https://world.hey.com/jason/the-bespoke-software-revolution-i-m-not-buying-it-4bfad9ec
71•FireBy2024•1h ago

Comments

christkv•1h ago
Neither am I. It feels like the dotcom in the sense that people will be spitting out new apps all overt the place. Down the line they will have problems maintaining them (and will say it's not core to their business) and they will revert to SaaS. However i expect the SaaS apps to have super low margins compared to today. Instead of 20-30% it will be 5-7% and the companies will be a shadow of themselves.
b0nk3rsnNuts•44m ago
Right so teams will shrink and we'll have more "bespoke" SaaS with more small biz services making enough to support maybe 5-10?

Sounds just like the bespoke software product companies and consultants out there.

christkv•6m ago
Thats my guess and I think this might happen in other domains like games as well.
kemiller•1h ago
100%. Saas isn’t going away, but the economics are changing drastically and that’s bad for one-size-fits-all tools, and excellent for niche solutions. But it’s still saas, just more specific.
manmal•43m ago
Isn’t the SaaS landscape already highly specific?
layer8•7m ago
Businesses don’t want to use dozens of hyper-specific tools from dozens of vendors, if they instead can use a single vendor that can already do 80% of it and can vibe-code them the remaining 20%. I don’t see how this favors niche vendors.
albertgoeswoof•47m ago
Why are SaaS margins apparently dropping? The cost of producing saas is going down, no one is investing in new saas companies, the build your own saas will crumble as described in this article, meanwhile corporate IT departments will be decimated to pay for ballooning AI costs leaving saas as the only option to run companies.

Are any saas companies actually reducing their prices?

Apocryphon•36m ago
Because interest rates gone up, tech bubble hype now almost exclusively focuses on AI, and SaaS was commodified a decade ago?
b0nk3rsnNuts•46m ago
SaaS dev says SaaS is the one true solution to software.

Self selecting biology gonna self select.

Ancalagon•44m ago
I don’t disagree if models stay as capable as they are today. But devils advocate: the point of the saaspocalypse isn’t just that anyone will be able to make their own software, it’s also that the AI will be good enough and interconnected enough to maintain it.

The world these investors are envisioning is not one where a software engineer gives a detailed spec to a model and reviews its output, deploys the resulting files and monitors said application. It’s where Jo-shmo at the law firm can tell the model “give me a new billing system”, and the AI does everything correctly and better than a team of software engineers, in a matter of minutes or hours. And that AI maintains it for them, better than the engineers would have

paulhebert•41m ago
I really struggle to imagine that working. What does “a new billing system” even mean? How is it better than the old system?
Ancalagon•35m ago
I was being a little facetious - I really dont think AI systems are there yet. It would probably look more like an interview, and there will be some amount of human-required maintenance and subjectivity for a while.

But I think thats what the investors are envisioning.

b0nk3rsnNuts•5m ago
The AI will link existing APIs with glue code; slurp up data, map it to appropriate CRUD ops with Intuit or something.

We are way beyond the 90s-early 00s wild west where billing can be some random consultants opinions.

autarch•35m ago
Imagine that you are a consultant. You get a call that starts with, "Hi, this is Joe Schmoe and Schmoe Law Firm. I need a new billing system. Can you build me one?"

And you respond by saying that you can, but you need to do a _lot_ of work with him to spec this billing system out. You can't just build "a new billing system" without any more details. You tell him that this will take many hours of work between the two of you where you ask him questions, write a spec, get his feedback, and repeat that a number of times.

At this point, he says "wow, that sounds like a ton of of work for me just get started", and he gives up.

AI does not fix any of this, and this is the thing that I think most people will not want to do, and that's why I think this blog post is making a very good point. The amount of work it takes to build a new software system, even with a super competent programmer as a partner, is still quite significant. And it requires thinking about hundreds of tiny little details in a way that drives a lot of people nuts. They will only do it if they _really_ have to do it.

Foobar8568•15m ago
Or AI won't fix diffusion of responsibility that you see in companies through outsourcing, offshoring or matrix organizations...Or to go through committees to know if they should change shh root access with abc123 as password.
b0nk3rsnNuts•7m ago
That billing system will end glue code that links existing Big SaaS players which AI can handle just fine.

Consultants are not spinning up a bespoke SaaS product given the risk.

skywhopper•31m ago
Everything you describe is fantasy, though. It’s not real. It’s not possible to be real. “Give me a new billing system”?? No way is that going to produce a good result for the company or their clients. But the second that Joe Schmo has to start laying out all the ever-evolving requirements for his custom billing system, he will run back to traditional SaaS providers.

At best, if AI is supergenius enough to just intuit everything Joe needs, then the cost of running the AI to constantly maintain a billing system will far exceed the cost of just paying someone for their existing billing system SaaS.

Ancalagon•30m ago
I'm not saying its logical - I think this is what investors believe however.
tpetry•44m ago
The doomsday saying the past months that everyone will now vibecode a solution instead of paying for SaaS as a big logic error… These people could have switched to self-hosting an open source clone of any popular SaaS but they didn‘t! Why? Because they dont want to be the person maintaining this, so we should those people not self-hosting a free software now go one step further and also build those products?
shigawire•27m ago
> Because they dont want to be the person maintaining this, so we should those people not self-hosting a free software now go one step further and also build those products?

If one thinks AI can do this eventually then it makes sense. But I feel that is impossible the predict.

Foobar8568•13m ago
Who do you think they can blame in case of outage/security issues etc ?
3hoss•43m ago
> Most people don’t like computers.

Ummmm, what? People love their smartphones, and do you know what those are?

Computers.

gwbas1c•43m ago
> Most people don’t like computers. Nobody in tech wants to say that out loud. People tolerate computers. They use them because they have to. Given the choice, most would rather not think about them at all.

Which makes me think there's a lot more room for "virtual people." Imagine a very smart AI bot that could hold multiple conversations at once and remember a lot of things.

> So when someone suggests that AI means everyone will build their own custom tools, ask who "everyone" is. The three-person accounting firm drowning in client paperwork? They want the paperwork gone, not a new system to maintain. The regional logistics company with 40 trucks? They want the routes optimized, not Joe spouting off about this new system he’s been messing around with. The law firm billing 70-hour weeks? They want leverage on their time, not a software project to design.

What if there was a bot that was just smart enough to figure those things out, without needing traditional "software"?

To me, that's more what AI is, instead of adding chatbots to everything, and vibecoding everything.

senko•43m ago
With all due respect to what Jason Fried &co have achieved, this is wrong.

Bespoke sofware does exist. And yes, consultants small and large have built, deployed, and charged through the roof for bespoke software. And often it sucks. Here's why it sucks: because clients can't coherently describe what they need, don't have a budget, consultancies don't care and - critically - the person writing the spec (and controling the budget) isn't the same person that will use it. (here you also have "A Tragedy of EdTech" in one sentence, but that's a different post)

But there's another kind of bespoke software, which, for a lack of a better name, I'll unimaginatively call "internal tool". This is what VB6/Access/VBA/HyperCard enabled back in the day, what Retool tried to own recently, and what many Excel spreadsheets are secretly doing.

This is duct-taped-code-pasta that barely holds but does exactly what the business needs, and nothing more. I've seen and heard of many cases already of non-techies doing exactly that. It's not scalable, it's not maintainable, it doesn't follow best practices, it doesn't have tests or docs, but it doesn't matter, because it works and solves a biz problem.

The reason it works is that the person can iteratively narrow down to what they need, feedback is instant, iteration is minutes not days or weeks and is super cheap (compared to external developers).

No sane freelancer or agency would ship something like it - for many reasons: as a software engineer you want to ship quality product and charge appropriate amount of money. Many times, that's the right thing for the customers.

Often, it's overkill, and these types of smaller "quick win" projects never get started in the first place. And there's loads of potential projects like these!

So yeah, nobody will vibe-code a payroll system for 100+ person company, nor should they. But people absolutely will, and already do, whip up something that solves their niche problem. Now maybe they'll use AI instead of Excel.

pilliq•19m ago
True. The reason why this works is because someone owns it and takes responsibility of it, usually for reasons other than making money.
somewhereoutth•8m ago
However:

Excel is 'free-at-point-of-use', i.e. once you've paid for it, to use it doesn't cost anymore. But LLMs do cost per use (unless we all go to local models). Either this cost is billed directly, or some sort of bundling occurs with 'fair use' limits.

Excel is deterministic, yes scary spaghetti-fied spreadsheets are routinely constructed, but, for example, sorting a result column somewhere can be done with a bit of poking in the right place. LLMs have a tendency to dangerously change many things if the prompting is a bit wrong (and even if it is a bit right).

SunshineTheCat•36m ago
The main point everyone seems to be making is that now with AI anyone can make a SaaS.

The initial reaction I think most people have to this is "SaaS companies/devs are in trouble."

I actually think the opposite is true.

With an outpouring of vibe-coded apps/SaaS, you have the new wave of vulnerabilities/leaks/problems that happen even with the best software. Except now, it's worse because it's being done on platforms "built" by people who haven't the slightest clue how they work.

One of many examples: https://dig.watch/updates/women-only-dating-app-tea-suffers-...

This I imagine will, over time, erode trust in most apps/SaaS products. With that erosion of trust will come skepticism and with that, will come trust in the "old faithful" of SaaS products/companies. Basecamp is a good example of this.

I could be wrong on this one, but it seems to me those that have built credibility for privacy/security/competence will become more valuable in the AI age, not less.

jatora•21m ago
You're most certainly wrong on this one. Superior models give superior products and security over time. Until every 3-6 months stops bringing a large improvement in coding capability and scaffolding, there's no reason to assume we are nearing a hard limit.

You also have to factor in that bespoke software is... bespoke. ie. much more suited to your org's use-cases than the primary solution is. Way less bloat. Way less vulnerability when you don't need an enterprise SaaS solution and instead can host on your private networks.

And as far as security considerations: Imagine you had a separate Opus 4.6 agent tasked with managing and monitoring and updating devoted to a specific slice of vulnerabilities. Of course this is highly inefficient, but it would take care of the vast majority of vulnerabilities that even enterprise SaaS have. This is simply a scaffolding issue at this point, not model ability. Scaffolding issues like this will continue to dominoe.

operatingthetan•18m ago
>Until every 3-6 months stops bringing a large improvement in coding capability and scaffolding, there's no reason to assume we are nearing a hard limit.

How much of that is better models, and how much is it AI companies throwing more resources at each one? E.g. larger context windows and higher token/s correlate with the better models.

harrall•18m ago
This is like saying I know how to do plumbing so now I’m going to do all my own plumbing.

Yet I will still pay for a plumber. I wonder why.

simonsarris•16m ago
This is essentially what Jensen Huang (Nvidia CEO) was predicting a few months ago. Incumbents in most software spaces will probably see a lot of short and medium term benefits from the new tooling as being trustworthy and truly understanding the problem space.
torlok•14m ago
This is basically why I buy the tech dip. When you pay for software, you pay for infrastructure, expertise, QA, consumer relations, having staff on call, etc. It was always possible to replace enterprise software by 2 guys coding a product in 6 months, but you still need everything around the code before serious clients will want to work with you, and at that point you're a regular software company. All these vibe coded products are one untested push away from getting dropped.
SunshineTheCat•7m ago
This is exactly right.

You know what's funny, less than a week ago I signed up for Basecamp.

Could I have asked Codex/Claude to whip me up a Basecamp clone with the exact features I want?

Of course. Do I want to deal with managing that codebase, even with AI? No.

The problem has been solved and the $15/mo. is well worth the time I will save not having to deal with managing that codebase and can instead focus my attention on things that bring in revenue.

gos9•28m ago
Incentive check! The author seems to have a vested interest in people not making their own software. Curious
sitkack•27m ago
I am +5 on browser extensions just for me.
dajonker•27m ago
> they're almost always people who already had some pull toward software

I think this is probably true, and basically how I got into software myself.

I always dabbled in writing software and things for the web, but for some reason I never thought studying computer science would be any fun and that a career as a software developer sounded boring. But then I got an actual full time office job and oh boy, did my perspective on things change fast.

That first job did not have anything to do with writing software at all. But I saw people struggle with things that seemed to me trivial to automate, such as making annotations on paper bank statements and entering them into the system line-by-line. The bookkeeping system did support electronic bank statements, but lacked features to match certain descriptions to certain cost places. In the end it was indeed faster to go the paper route... It took me a couple of hours to write something that saved hours every week and that basically kick started my software career.

Would AI have made much of a difference here? Yes, in terms of getting to the correct solution faster, but probably not in terms of who would have done that. People would still come to the person who came up with the solution to ask for maintenance and new features.

dagss•26m ago
However, if you move from "bespoke" to just "very small niches", I think lower production costs of software may well open up opportunities that were earlier unprofitable.
BloondAndDoom•26m ago
It will be race to bottom for SaaS in terms of pricing, with lots of alternatives to every SaaS.

It’s not about personal software it’s about how 1-3 people team will deliver a SaaS that actually works at scale for the 1/10th of the price.

In terms of personal software, he’s absolutely right, it’s great for hobbyist and things like in house tooling but that’s it.

fnoef•18m ago
Competing on price was never a good strategy. Moreover, price segmentation is still a thing. You can buy Chinese Rolex knockoffs for $7, but people still buy $10k Rolex.
surgical_fire•18m ago
> It’s not about personal software it’s about how 1-3 people team will deliver a SaaS that actually works at scale for the 1/10th of the price.

Is this already happening?

Shouldn't it be?

> In terms of personal software, he’s absolutely right, it’s great for hobbyist and things like in house tooling but that’s it.

That much is true.

payne92•25m ago
When the cost of software drops, supply increases.

That means we'll see even more niche apps, and more custom apps.

That doesn't mean everyone becomes a builder.

It means that the people who can build can now do so much more cheaply. Custom apps that were previously too expensive may now be cost-effective.

wxw•9m ago
Strongly agree. Personal software is also personal responsibility. It’s fun to dream up features, much less fun to be responsible for their implementation and maintenance.
afro88•8m ago
I vibe coded a saas and it went nowhere because it wasn't a good enough idea to begin with. I consulted with multiple varied models along the way for competitive analysis, pricing structure etc.

AI doesn't solve for ideas and product market fit. But it did allow me to fail pretty fast before I sunk too much time into it. But also, I should have spoken to potential users earlier rather than vibe coding.

_pdp_•3m ago
Yes and no.

At the individual level, I think most people will be writing software, whether they realise it or not. Asking Claude to do something for you will often result in a purely generated script built for that one specific task. Some might even take it further, generating custom dashboards or whatever else they need to support their work.

At the company level though... most companies can hardly maintain opensource deployments, let alone write and maintain their own bespoke software. Pick any company that uses GitLab, they're probably a few major versions behind. It's across the board.

There's no doubt people will try to write more software.

But we've all seen how this plays out.

The smart engineer who built a weekend solution leaves, and nobody supports the software afterward. Coding agents certainly help, and only time will tell, but my bet is that for most organisations it will end up miserably.

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