You still have to pay for things like social security, etc, but you don't get to collect those benefits.
Before someone says "but illegal immigrants don't those taxes!", note that they actually do:
If not, then their employer is engaged in tax fraud, which is much easier to prove and prosecute than trying to track down and check the immigration statues of each of their employees.
The US government runs a huge profit on legal immigrants (above average job creation / economic growth), and on illegal immigrants (they pay for services they cannot utilize).
You're overlooking a few things like the fact it's estimated over half of illegal immigrant households have a US citizen child and then they start drawing welfare in the child's name on account of the fact the parents did not obtain legal immigration levels of financial independence before immigrating. Also on account that some are legally able to claim EITC in tax filing, some other similar benefit factors, as well as the fact undocumented immigrant use hospital ERs and then have no documented solvent individual to bill to (their employers also less likely to provide health insurance so they end up in ER instead of regular doctor). When you put it all together the annual public benefit is close to break even but over the period of decades counts up in the tens of thousands in the negative.
I'm generally for open immigration but I'd agree that when you consider the totality things aren't set up yet to make sure enough benefits they get are shit-canned to make sure it's at least break even. Shit-canning all the benefits that pull them below zero is definitely a less orwellian way of breaking even than the ICE/CBP apparatus, I will give it that.
[] https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_i...
Wouldn't it be nice if we could use the billions we waste on this repressive jackboot-theater for an actual safety net instead? We could live in a less brutal society.
Is there any country anywhere in the world that doesn’t have basically the same requirements?
You seem to be glossing over all of the hijackings that happen back in the day.
> They have the same security requirements
Yes, the US has significant influence over international aviation security regulations.
There are two reasons that no US airliner has been successfully hijacked in a quarter of a century, and neither has anything to do with TSA screening: first, cockpit doors are now locked during flight, and second, passengers now know that there is nothing to be gained by cooperating with hijackers and nothing to be lost by fighting back.
Many of us who are middle-aged or older clearly remember what the US was like before it created the present security apparatus
> passengers now know that there is nothing to be gained by cooperating with hijackers and nothing to be lost by fighting back.
Yes passengers are going to rise up and fight people with guns? How do you fight back against a terrorist with a bomb on board?
Even trained SWAT teams basically know that if you try to take over a plane from terrorists, who ever goes in front is going to get shot at, aisles are the perfect kill zone.
Just from me flying on a plane as much as I do, the perfect way to take over a plane would be to book first class tickets in the front of the plane - less crowded, usually with people who are less willing to fight back and you’re not surrounded by people on both sides and sweep the aisle.
This reminds me of the yokels running around in the South playing militia in the woods thinking their cache of guns can take on the US military or even a well trained local SWAT force.
Everyone thinks they are Rambo
If they were defunded, we could spend the money on fire departments (how many cities has the US lost in the last few years to forest fires, and how many cities to immigrants?), local police (to prosecute property and white collar crimes, and even government / police corruption), and mental health care (to reduce or even eliminate mass shootings - this worked in the US in the past, and works in every other country on earth right now).
Also, "social safety net" refers to things like social security, disability, not illegal deportations of non-criminals or what ever those organizations are focused on these days. The actual social safety net is on teetering on the edge of collapse because it's funding was stolen from the organizations you are defending.
There's maybe a few month period between the birth day cutoff and the founding of the DHS.
But in traveling is almost essential. GPS to navigate, search for hotels, places to eat, take fotos… yes, you could carry many devices… but seriously?! Ah btw… what about being in touch with family?
I'm in my 50s and I don't know where this stance comes from. Sure, you physically can in the same sense that anywhere can be walked to if you're willing to walk long enough. But so many businesses and services have gone "mobile-first" or "mobile-only" to the point that if you're traveling for leisure you're doing extra work on your vacation, and if you're traveling for business you're wasting time that could be used doing your job. Just as a first order, the denizens of every airline subreddit will tell you that the most useful tool during a trip is the airline's mobile app and that's either tied with or just above or below the Flighty app if anything goes wrong.
Combine that with QR codes for everything from menus to parking, public transit tickets and fare cards that can be easily loaded into a phone instead of using a ticket machine made when we were kids, or paper maps increasingly hard to find if they're available at all, and you're looking at a real challenge. How are you going to talk to and plan with your travel partner or colleagues with payphones removed?
It's also not incumbent upon us to make the government's life easier by making our lives harder. "Just leave your phone at home" is ludicrous behavior to expect when it's the government being the intrusive jerks.
Sure, you can do without them, but it will be much more difficult.
Sure it’s inconvenient sometimes, but on the whole I’d say my life is better than those I see glued to their phones.
This belief is reinforced whenever people ask for my number (dentist, doctor, whatever) The gusto which they invariably reply “OMG I WISH I could get rid of my phone!”
I don't btw. I admire you sticking to your principles.
> the government is overreaching
> "well back in my day we used to walk uphill both ways!"
[0] since I'm spelling this out, one of those credentials should be a passphrase such that the server doesn't have access to your data
[1] modulo data/apps you actually want on a phone in a foreign country, of course
Even so I would still be worried about the nonstandard behavior causing my Apple/Google account to get straight up locked by their arbitrary and capricious "security" systems.
I can throw my iPhone in the ocean, go to the nearest cell phone store/Apple Store and log into my Apple account and you won’t be able to tell the difference between my old phone and new phone.
I then tried to resist smart phones and stick with my nokia. But then you start to get into things like, the kiosk where they would print your boarding pass doesn't do that anymore. You need a QR code on your phone. You can't call places anymore, you need to do it on their website, etc.
Now the government is starting to treat a lack of social media or technology as a reason for suspicion. In the not-too-distant future I imagine it will not be possible to go to an airport without a smart phone and a digital history known to Palentir.
International travel is infinitely more difficult without a cell phone.
When I was younger and international roaming was expensive I travelled internationally without a phone. It’s possible, but it’s so much easier to do it with a phone. Later when I finally stopped being a cheap student and bought a data plan my trips were so much more efficient because I wasn’t losing so much time trying to figure everything out without a phone.
For international business trips, devices are mandatory. This isn’t even an option.
You do not want to spend an hour in the customer service line to find out that all open seats on the next flight out were scooped up 59 minutes ago.
You're probably right, still...
I often wonder how I survived going for a random drive or even simply leaving the house from 1980 through to the advent of smart phones. Was I simply more brave and self-sufficient back then?
But then I note that there was some infrastructure and also some attitude differences back then that don't exist now.
When my car would break down in the 1980s or 1990s, typically there would be a pay phone nearby. One time in the early 90s, I just knocked on a random door and the resident let me use their land line to call a tow truck (I'm not sure anyone would let a random stranger into their home now, but maybe they still do). Breaking down in the boonies was no fun, but likely someone would come by eventually and help (or murder you, but probably help).
I was reminded recently of this when I went to park in the city in a garage that I frequently patronize only to find they had removed the payment terminal, which was replaced by a sign that said "use our app!". I have a low-data phone plan, so if I had to install their app, I would probably blow past my limit for the month. Also, there was no signal in the garage. So I just left and found another place to park (and was almost late for my appointment).
Also I don't like having to pay just to print my boarding pass at the check-in kiosk. Maybe I am not less brave but just more cheap.
But how in 2026 when I travel am I going to get directions? Get an Uber? I am in a Spanish speaking country right now and I speak some Spanish. But it really is convenient just to take my cell phone out and translate.
What is your next piece of wisdom? That I also don’t need a computer with 16GB RAM because my first computer had 128KB?
Oh and I also don’t need the web because back in my day Gopher and Usenet were good enough
But you knew that already and decided to just post bait.
It’s almost exclusively Western Europeans doing this IME
I don't think the tsa is at sfo. They use a private contractor for tsa functions. Is the quote made-up?
What might confuse things a bit is that this incident happened hours before ICE agents started reinforcing TSA at checkpoints and seems mostly unrelated, other than establishing the general principle that ICE will arrest people at airports based on tips from TSA's flight booking records.
> Ms. Lopez-Jimenez, 41, a native of Guatemala, and her daughter, Wendy Godinez-Lopez, were flagged by T.S.A. officials on Friday when they showed up on a passenger list for a Sunday flight from San Francisco to Miami. The agency then tipped off Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to the documents.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/12/us/politics/immigration-t...
> Under the previously undisclosed program, the Transportation Security Administration and Immigration and Customs Enforcement of travelers are sharing names and birth dates of travelers believed to have been ordered out of the country by an immigration judge. ICE can then send agents to the airport to detain and quickly deport those people.
They don't have to be at the airport to do this; airlines have to send them the manifest.
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-19/chapter-I/part-122/sub...
> Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, an appropriate official of each commercial aircraft (carrier) departing from the United States en route to any port or place outside the United States must transmit to the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS; referred to in this section as the Customs and Border Protection (CBP) system), the electronic data interchange system approved by CBP for such transmissions, an electronic passenger departure manifest covering all passengers checked in for the flight.
https://www.ktvu.com/news/ice-agents-arrest-crying-woman-sfo
The TSA tip didn't have to come from someone physically sitting in the airport.
It'd be fun to see how they'd handle a CLI. Might result in getting detained, though.
I remember how Google's internal guidelines for travel circa 2011 required to remove any material under NDA from your laptop when traveling to China or Russia; you had to restore it over the VPN after a safe arrival. Funny that now the same precautions apply to the US :((
How do you restore it via VPN? Don't you first need a workable OS to connect to VPN first?
They are still active for accessing anything in the wallet, however.
Any idea what happened? New CEO? Acquisition?
Enable self-destruction mode caused by a special unlock PIN on each of them.
Anecdotally, I have been to the US a few times in the past year, and seen no change myself - where are you going and why? Thanks have a good trip. It was for short business trips, and I'm white with a number of documented entries/departures, so my experience might be very different from the next person though.
I have never encountered a phone-related problem that could not be solved with:
1. A print out. 2. Asking someone. 3. Using your web browser on your computer. 4. Using some kind of voip if audio communication is needed.
Yes, it is not as convenient as the surveillance and privacy nightmares of today, but if your life is only about convenience, then send your money to the government, and let them just decide for you how much money you need, and you don't even have to think about that.
A minor inconvenience is a price well paid for freedom from surveillance and excellent mental health.
The ones who complain about inconvenience don't really care about privacy, democracy and freedom, so should not complain when these things are attacked.
mothballed•1h ago
hedora•36m ago
https://abc7ny.com/archive/9192371/
This one's my favorite: If you want the police to keep ignoring complaints then don't steal service revolvers!
https://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/3rd-sfo-baggage-handler...