It's addictive though. Living in the center of the city (The Hague, NL), with a home battery, I'm now 100% self-sufficient electrically for 10 months of the year.
[1] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/cost-of-e...
On your map, let's say the source is valid, UK has $0.4. I'm from CZ, we have $0.35.
UK has more than double median salary, DOUBLE. Which means that in some cities it will be actually more like 2x or 3x smaller. But price of electricity is more or less same in the whole country here.
Don't tell me something about expensive electricity and saving money. Because on top of that, let's check affordable housing stats
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/affordabl...
Yep, one of the worst in EU, yaay.
Long time ago when Siemens in Germany was still building nuclear power plants, I was working in the nuclear power plant engineering department. After the year 2022 when the Russia invaded Ukraine, the gas shortages and the following costs hikes renewed my interest energy sector. Why didn't German reverse it's anti-nuclear stance, even with war in Europe?
Was is the general lack of knowledge of physical, technological and economical aspects of energy, both in German population and decision makers?
The political aspect became clearer after reading "Akte Atomausstieg" by Daniel Gräber.
https://www.perlentaucher.de/buch/daniel-graeber/akte-atomau...
Little bit of money from oil and gas industry always helps.
https://correctiv.org/en/latest-stories/2022/10/07/gazprom-l...
https://www.politico.eu/article/robert-habeck-germany-qatar-...
I think solar and wind are interesting technologies, (solar almost magical - turning photons of light inside thin layer of doped silicon into electrons) but by itself insufficient to power modern world. They are intermittent, weather dependent and low density. Yes the sun and wind come free from Sun, the machines that convert the energy, store it and distribute it are not. Minerals have to be mined, machines build, transported, installed and then disposed off.
Recommended reading:
"Sustainable Energy – Without the Hot Air" by Sir David John Cameron MacKay
Books by Vaclav Smil:
Energy and Civilization: A History
Energy Transitions: Global and National Perspectives
How the World Really Works
"Why Nuclear Power Has Been A Flop" - The Gordian Knot of the 21st Century
There are still big hydrocarbon reserves, gas/oil for atleast 100 years, coal 200 years, at current consumption rates. I fear that, if we don't use the only carbon free high density energy source and cling our hopes to the mirage of renewables, we will transform our atmosphere to hell.
When even the oil and gas giants advertise for renewables, you know that renewables will never replace fossil fuels.
"gas the perfect partner for renewable energies"
https://totalenergies.com/news/news/natural-gas-integral-par...
> the machines that convert the energy, store it and distribute it are not. Minerals have to be mined, machines build, transported, installed and then disposed off
This is of course also a valid argument against nuclear power.
And the great thing is: this is only if the panel was produced with fossil fuels. So due to increase in green energy everywere, this number goes down too and a PV can easily be used for 15 years and after. After that it might just be more economicly to reinvest in a new set of PV panels while the old ones can be sold and used somewere else.
This is with today's efficiencies. They are of course improving.
- Did you need/use an electrician to set this up? - How much KWh capacity do your batteries have? - What about fire safety? Did you install outside, or inside? - I assume dec/jan are the months you're not fully self-sufficient, are you allowed to charge from grid to do arbitrage over time, or is that another can of worms?
The battery is 16kWh. Effectively around 14kWh, since you never fully discharge. LiFePo4, so no chance of spontaneous combustion like other battery chemistries.
I'd say the months Nov→Feb are tricky, although since I have quite a bit of excess solar capacity there are even in December plenty of days where the battery pulls me through the night.
Charging/discharging from/to the grid is possible, since I have a retrofit inverter (AC to battery), but not doing it yet, have to do a bit more research (dynamic pricing, tax is >50% of the kWh price in NL, etc).
UK specific note: note that since the changes in 2013 under the ""Part P"" building regulations, almost all electrical work other than trivial replacement is illegal to DIY. Additionally, renewables work requires extra MCS certification.
Which is why balcony solar is a good deal, it requires none of that.
I wonder for how many people it will work in practice?
Putting panels on the roof should be much more efficient…
Yes, but it's also much more expensive.
The economics behind battery-backed zero-export solar are interesting because they keep your local solar energy local, and you can extract maximum benefit from the system. Also, if you have enough batteries and TOD rates for grid power, you can store grid energy when it's cheap (overnight) and use it locally when it's expensive.
Our local utility, National Grid, has a program where, if you have the right inverter-battery combination, they will buy power from you during peak-load periods, and you can make a couple of grand a year.
Batteries, especially local ones, change the dynamics of power generation and use. It's amazing and wonderful.
Usually such installations are only allowed to be done by the owners, not tenants.
I bought a 1600Wc + 1.9KWh kit (Ecoflow Stream) for +/- 1300€ last summer. It took us about 2h to install (we had to setup a new plug outside), and I already saved 200€+ since July. I am expecting to save about 350€ per year.
Also, as u/jstch said, it's extremely fun to setup and generate your own power!
South facing?
Buying supports for PV is actually less economical than buying additional PV panels.
--
You have special electric meter and you are distributing solar power into the grid outside of your household?
Or you don't distribute electricity into the grid?
With a e-meter, you will get compensated when you're generating a surplus (+/- €0.04/kWh last time I checked).
However, thanks to the battery, I'm self-consuming almost all that electricity, saving around €0.30/kWh.
Expect 800kWh of annual production per 1kW of panels.
(this is country dependent)
If they think they can get an ounce more sunshine, they'll hang it over the edge, badly
Because here, small country in EU, this is not allowed since it would mean ridiculous investment into electric infrastructure.
It's heavily regulated and you need special electric meter, license, etc. and still price of electricity is negative in certain times during the day, because everyone who could, got their solar power plant from EU subsidies.
https://tukes.fi/-/ala-kayta-pistorasiaan-kytkettavaa-aurink...
If you want solar panels without having to get an electrician, you'd need to connect them to a battery that's not connected to the mains.
The post is about permission to plug solar panels into your main electricity.
Eg.: Small EU country, definitely not allowed and under huge fines. Without proper equipment, solar power plant license etc. etc.
You speak as though that were a bad thing. I'd rather not have people accidentally burning their houses down.
Once it's approved for an area, you go to your local shop, buy an approved PV system, and plug it in. No fuss, no worries, and your insurer must cover it.
Does it need its own earth? Will it switch off if it detects a residual current? Can it handle spikes in load?
Its even reducing your load on your main line beause the energy directly flows into the next consumer.
German socket has earth, thats fine. It has protection mechanism and shuts down if it can't sync to the powergrid. The panels only produce (in peak!) 400-800 watts. Thats not an issue.
Product Features:
- Name: VALE MiniPV 880-EF8N
- Control: Free App
- Communication: WiFi 2.4 GHz
- Performance: max. 800 W
- Tension: approx. 230 V
- Frequency: 50 Hz
- Power supply: Solar inputs: up to 60 V, mains current 230 V
- Protection rating: IP67
- Material: Solar modules: glass and aluminium frame
- Inverter: Cast aluminium
- Dimensions: approx. L 172.2 x W 113.4 x H 3 cm (per solar module) approx. L 25,3 x W 22.2 x H 3.5 cm (inverter)
- Weight: approx. 56 kg
- Scope of delivery: 2 x Premium solar panels, each 440WP, Black, Bifazial; 1 x Premium inverter 800 Watt with WiFi; 1 x connection cable (5 m), safety plug; Quick start guide
Ugh.
I have as much love for solar as the next hippy, though I can't be the only one put off by a lack of an open API and, *gasp*, a complete set of physical controls.
This IoT shite has gone too far.
Inspection revealed it had two 6 Volt 10 Watt panels in parallel and then 12V to 5V USB-converter.
When panels were reconnected in series it was quite OK.
Little worried about Lidl-quality also on larger scale.
Different companies, different manufactoring methods and different components. The inverter is the biggest cost at normal PVs for example, the panel itself is glas and alumnimum and not epoxy or plastic.
It appears your could legally install one of these panels on the 15th of this month, but there presumably won't be any certified to comply with the regs on sale yet.
[1] https://electrical.theiet.org/amendment-4-updates-to-18th-ed...
Given that these store-bought panels are being plugged into house AC, it follows that they have built-in inverters. Many grid-tied inverters are “grid follow”, meaning that they adjust themselves to grid frequency/phase. So, just speculating here… maybe the inverter senses when the mains go down and turns itself off? I would love to know from an EE what is actually happening wrt safety.
Same legislation as the non-plug&play inverters.
Some models of inverter brands like Victron (which isn't very common outside its niche of self-sufficiency because they are rather expensive and sometimes complex) can form a micro-grid. They have the option of a special circuit breaker [1] that decouples the inverter from the grid if the grid is detected to be down, which allows their use during a power outage.
[1] https://www.victronenergy.com/accessories/anti-islanding-box...
muskstinks•1d ago
works well and is probably now refinanced.
lnsru•1d ago
progbits•1d ago
oneeyedpigeon•1d ago
fragmede•1d ago
tbrownaw•1d ago
latexr•1d ago
citrin_ru•1d ago
Hamuko•1d ago
creddit•1d ago
muskstinks•1d ago
Markoff•1d ago
muskstinks•1d ago
240kWh per month, 35cent per kWh and a base price of 10 Euros.
pjc50•1d ago
Markoff•1d ago
your link doesn't mention whether gas/electricity are used for heating (including hot water), plus UK houses are infamous for having horrible insulation
and I am working from home with big external display (so does my wife) as well for many years, TV is running roughly 5 hours per day, game console around <1hr and that 1.2MWh includes also AC set to 26C when it will get hot, though not spending that much time at home during July/August
pjc50•21h ago