The USAF has had them since 1956: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-4_Falcon
I'd imagine small computers have made them more effective in the last decade or two, but that probably applies to detection and countermeasures in the victim aircraft as well.
Pretty simple and probably quite effective if true.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flare_(countermeasure)
> The newest generation of the FIM-92 Stinger uses a dual IR and UV seeker head, which allows for a redundant tracking solution, effectively negating the effectiveness of modern decoy flares (according to the U.S. Department of Defense).
This stuff is a constant back-and-forth of tech improvements.
I'm pretty sure I could buy everything I'd need to build a thermal imaging tracker for a few hundred dollars. So perhaps not surprising that Iran did the same.
>>Flares, the standard IR countermeasure, are less effective against imaging IR seekers that can distinguish an aircraft shape from point-source decoys.
1) It's not the 1990s anymore, Counter-Countermeasure IR missile discrimination is pretty common on imported MANPADs and IR SAMs.
2) The F-35 has a insanely hot engine even when it's not afterburning. The F135 produces hotter inlet temperature than even the F-22's engine (F119) giving older IR seekers an easier target.
But the real question is: does the appearance of good, cheap IR sensors in combat mean that we civilians will finally be allowed to buy thermal IR cameras that don’t suck? Everything is limited to 20 Hz with potato resolution. The ITAR restriction is a joke at this point.
It has never been compute-intensive. Current hypersonic kinetic-intercept missiles use ancient MIPS R3000/4000 class CPUs.
This shatterbelt site sucks tbh. It feels like blogspam.
oh no that's not true the F117 and F35 is though
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/ur5qt0/radar_cros...
I think this is the most relevant 'new' piece of information from the article. IR missiles are not new, but IR missiles that can distinguish between aircraft and decoys might be.
To decoy that, the decoy needs to basically _be_ the aircraft.
An even earlier version, the AIM-9R was tested in 1990 before the budget was cut as part of the Cold War wind down. That’s 35 years ago.
Even earlier than that, a Soviet missile which became operational in 1984 (40 years ago!), the R-74, inspired the AIM-9R program.
So it’s not like imaging seekers were unknown to the people designing today’s generation of fighters.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/china-s-new-infrar...
these new inventions will challenge western air dominance doctrine by using abundant heat seeking A2A missiles/drones possible.
Just like cheap drones have completely changed the battlefield on the ground, these things can potentially change the air battle completely
Really?. Funny that everyone now knows US overclaimed their capabilities.
Last paragraph: "Does this make the F-35 obsolete? No."
From https://www.shatterbelt.co/about:
"One analyst. 500+ open sources across 15 languages. AI-augmented research that synthesizes what would take a team weeks. Human judgment on every conclusion."
> How many impovershised american children could you feed for the cost of one f35 fighter jet?
Here is the answer:
> Using a rough estimate of $110.3 million for one F-35A and about $3,500 per child per year to cover food assistance, that would feed roughly 31,500 children for one year
MPACGA -- Make Poor American Children Great Again.
In other words, you can target the F-35 but only when it's on top of you dropping bombs on YOU from much further away.
As other commenters note, these missiles are not new. But they are much shorter range. Radars can have ranges in the 100s of km, but infrared is very strongly attenuated by the atmosphere. Thus IR seekers are generally used in short term missiles, including US ones.
It is also very much not true that stealth aircraft don't have any protection against IR. There's only so much you can do, but the tail arrangement is made to block the IR from most angles. You also can't see the hot engine inlet because again, it is hidden behind other bits. There may be other features, some clever cooling etc that I'm not aware of.
Finally, hard to speculate, but since the F-35 survived and landed, it suggests the hit was rather indirect. Which in turn suggests the mitigations against IR seekers.
IR is useful for terminal guidance only due to very limited engagement distances at which it can get lock (see also: MANPADS). One of the objectives of non-IR stealth is that it eliminates the mid-course guidance needed for long-range missile engagements, which largely requires radar. Note also that sophisticated "IR-guided" missiles are not "heat-seeking", that is mostly a movie trope. They use imagers that include part of the IR spectrum.
The short range of IR terminal guidance limits the size of the associated warhead. US aircraft are designed and tested to survive being hit with warheads in this size class. An F-35 is expected to eat an IR-guided missile and get back home.
The F-35 definitely saw it coming. The article casually ignores the widely documented base capabilities of the aircraft that make it what it is.
That said, F-35 is an export design with limited IR stealth. The US uses IR stealth on non-export 5th gen designs and all of the 6th gen designs. This was one of the compromises to make the design "exportable".
Could you explain this a bit? OK, IR guidance is short range. Why does that mean I can't put a bigger bomb in it?
And honestly, considering how good radars are nowaday, i wouldn't be surprised the stealth will get ditched eventually (not until we make FSR or an equivalent active that we can put in a missile though, so we probably still have 5 to 10 years?) (if an expert can chime in, i have not talked to a physician specialized in this field in a decade, and my buddy at Thales isn't working on radar software anymore :( )
verdverm•1h ago
1. Their quantum radar can detect stealth objects, but cannot lock
2. Their missiles are rapidly improving, I believe they have the longest range A2A missile [1], the PL-17 nearly doubles the best the US and Russia have, though I think the US announced something in that range recently (but not fielded)
3. Quantum to get close, thermal for terminal guidance
[1] https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/china-first-close-...
fsh•1h ago
verdverm•1h ago