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We have a 99% email reputation. Gmail disagrees

https://blogfontawesome.wpcomstaging.com/we-have-a-99-email-reputation-gmail-disagrees/
58•em-bee•1h ago

Comments

chmod775•58m ago
Chances are the e-mails they've been sending so far went unread/got moved to spam by a lot of users and Gmail took that as a signal.

I send nothing but password-reset mails and never had an issue getting anything delivered, even though people constantly whine that delivering e-mail yourself has gotten so hard nowadays.

Just got a clean IP and don't send crap.

rokkamokka•57m ago
Does anyone want these emails? Users getting them might just be marking them as spam because they're unwanted
fontain•57m ago
You are not penalized for sending infrequently but sending infrequently lessens the chance that your recipients will remember you and remember why they subscribed to your emails and if they don’t remember, they mark as spam.

The problem for Font Awesome is 2 fold:

1. Kickstarter spam is a huge problem, seriously, it is so prevalent I expect gmail may even have specific rules around it. There is an entire cottage industry of kickstarter “promoters” that send out so much spam.

2. Font Awesome… is not a kickstarter? They’re using their email list to advertise a new project, Build Awesome. Same team, similar ethos, sure, but it is entirely new — they are sending email about a project to people who didn’t subscribe to email about that project.

Who knows why specifically their email performance is so bad, but this blog post doesn’t come close to providing plausible explanations.

mistrial9•46m ago
an old quote .... ".. having mastered the game of five card stud in the Pacific theater, the victorious Allies declare the game of Poker to be illegal"
Pikamander2•50m ago
Gmail's spam detection has some real headscratcher moments every now and then.

Some days it'll mark legitimate transaction emails from major companies as spam even if you've been receiving emails from them for years.

And then right afterwards it'll allow an obvious scam email with a PDF attachment from some random Gmail account that you've never contacted to go straight to your inbox.

ihaveajob•42m ago
It's gotten to the point that I don't open emails from Sendgrid support because 4 out of 5 are poorly disguised phishing attempts.
meatmanek•11m ago
Several years back when I applied for a Google internship, I missed some emails from my recruiter (soandso@google.com) because they went to my gmail spam folder.
sho_hn•49m ago
If I read this right, they used their email recipient list from Font Awesome to spam people with an unrelated new product announcement.

I get they're going for the whole "look at big evil Google undermining this underdog" support ticket route, but I think it will backfire in this case.

Youden•48m ago
How do you get email addresses? Do people freely and explicitly choose to sign up to your mailing list, or is it baggage that you're forcing on them without their consent?

I notice that when I go to https://fontawesome.com/ and click "Start for Free", I'm asked for my email address. This isn't necessary for me to use the icons. I just need a page that tells me to add the necessary tags for cdnjs [0].

I think your problem is dissonance between what you think your users want and what they actually want. If I had to sign up for a mailing list in order to use every frontend development library I've ever used, and their emails actually made it past my spam filter, I'd never see anything else.

I think Google's doing the right thing here. You need to separate your newsletter and product updates from people who just want to set up the icons and move on with their lives.

[0]: https://cdnjs.com/libraries/font-awesome

kodebach•24m ago
It's actually worse. I just signed up with a dummy email and the page says they need your email to create an account so, they can store the icon kits you've created. That kinda makes sense. But at no point do they ask you whether you want to subscribe to any form of newsletter. AFAICT not even the privacy policy mentions anything about that. You're just subscribed automatically. So by definition anything not crucial for creating the account is literal spam. I'm not even sure that's legal under GDPR.

But the thing that might actually be killing their reputation is that their mails seemingly come from different emails all looking like bounces+18741050-ecba-jopudmulwqqsumjwub=nespj.com@email.fontawesome.com. But even worse than that, the "confirm your email" email and the following "finish account setup" email came from two different sub-domains. Maybe this is just a new attempt to get around Google's spam filter, but it seems like the worst thing you could possibly do when sending emails.

itopaloglu83•1m ago
I don’t know if this is true with Font Awesome, but more and more companies are spamming my inbox despite disabling any promotional emails in their settings.

So, I mark any unwanted email as spam in Gmail immediately, and even leave bad reviews.

Having my email address is not the same as having my consent. Stop trying to roofie us with malicious EULAs.

the__alchemist•48m ago
#1: Was this article written by an LLM? The phrasing implies there's a high chance

#2: Is your company sending spam emails? I don't know how Gmail's system works, but I will mark any unsolicited email from businesses as spam. Perhaps Google uses that as a heuristic?

bakugo•38m ago
Yes, it was. Recent Claudes absolutely love to spam an endless stream of very short sentences like this.
InsideOutSanta•19m ago
Totally sounds like an LLM wrote it. Should have been two paragraphs instead of this verbose drivel.
sva_•11m ago
Gmail has a system of reputation as you suggest. It is very likely that enough people marked their emails as spam, which the OOP could figure out on the postmaster dashboard if they were so inclined: https://postmaster.google.com/managedomains

It also goes the other way, if enough people click "not spam" and interact with your mails, your reputation gets better. I'm currently trying to do that with my personal email/domain - will probably take some time though. For now, my friends say my mails land in spam even though I get a 10/10 score on mail-tester.com and similar sites.

j16sdiz•45m ago
No. Thanks.

Your "fun" email belongs to my spam box.

I use font awesome for a few quick icons. I have no interested in using a new site engine.

If you are getting new icons - great. not that interesting, but this is not spam.

If you are doing a incompatible update - i hate this. but i need to know this. thanks for telling me.

Doing a new kickstarter project? - no. hell no. this is not what i signed up for.

powera•40m ago
From March, also https://blog.fontawesome.com/we-have-a-99-email-reputation-g... is the canonical URL.
em-bee•37m ago
that's the url i submitted, but HN changed it. no idea why.

it hasn't been posted before, and i thought it was interesting.

based on the comments i hope the authors read them, because it looks like they are getting some good feedback here.

fontain•31m ago
``` <!-- SEO/Feeds --> <link rel="canonical" href="https://blogfontawesome.wpcomstaging.com/we-have-a-99-email-..."> ```

Misconfigured website.

0x3f•38m ago
I'm a Font Awesome subscriber and yes, for the record, they spam me with annoying marketing and probably deserve their Gmail woes.

They also use that silly dark pattern where they alternate sending out marketing emails from {David,Harry,Sam,Janet,every other person at the company}@fontawesome.com.

hirako2000•30m ago
Wouldn't be a fringe. I get most marketing emails with a name as if a person sent it.

Catchy subject seemingly target to me. Same for content.

But you are right, it's more likely enough users marked them as spam that Google algorithm decided the source is the spam.

0x3f•22m ago
Oh the 'real name' thing I see all the time, often just using the founder's name, but only the more growth-hacky companies seem to purposely cycle through the names of their other employees for sending marketing content.
Brybry•4m ago
Do they have an easy-to-unsubscribe link in the marketing spam (cannot include logging into the user's account)?

I have a generic name gmail account and people with my name frequently accidentally use my email address when signing up for stuff.

When I get unsolicited mail which doesn't include a simple unsubscribe link then I just report as spam instead.

vachina•35m ago
From a user’s PoV. Gmail is awesome. Super low noise and zero phishing emails.
apitman•30m ago
It's pretty amazing email hasn't been replaced, or at least joined, by an open protocol where you can't message someone without first being approved by them, either directly like Facebook messenger or through some sort of referral system.
0x3f•25m ago
Well you can already do this with email, can't you? You just use [company-name]@[yourdomain].com. Or you+[company]@gmail.com. Then you either block all unknown, or more practically just block companies as soon as they start spamming you.
em-bee•23m ago
which system does that? neither telegram, nor whatsapp do it, and it annoys the hell out of me. at least whatsapp tells me that the sender doesn't get a notification until i respond or add the contact. wechat actually requires a connection request before allowing you to message someone, with all the complaints about privacy, wechat has the better UX to avoid getting spammed, linkedin requires a connection too, if you don't have a pro account. i don't know about any others.
gus_massa•2m ago
The problem is how to start a conversation.

We had a similar problem in the university. At the beginning of the semester, the students have to register for a Moodle server with additional material. So when they create an account, we have to send a few thousands of confirmation emails in a short period out of the blue, that makes Gmail/Yahoo/Outlook/Whatever unhappy.

The solution was to ask the students to send an email to the server half an hour before registering. It's not ideal, but it adds us to a secret list of known contacts of the student, so (most) emails are delivered.

stackghost•26m ago
>It’s a genuine catch-22: send too many emails and your reputation drops from complaints. Send too few and it drops from inactivity. Try to do the right thing and you get penalized either way. And. It. Is. Frustrating.

What's frustrating is when companies delude themselves into thinking users want their spam in our inboxes. Perhaps a dose of perspective is required:

The product is pretty icons for websites. No offense but the unvarnished truth is that on the list of "things that deserve my limited time and attention", whether or not font awesome has a new update is wayyy down near the bottom.

Expecting users to give a flying shit when Gmail blocks your spam is naive at best.

rozumem•26m ago
What's your spam report rate on Google Postmaster Tools?
airstrike•18m ago
As a builder, I appreciate the hustle.

But an e-mail every 2 months seems innocuous until you factor in how many senders one normally has, which really means lots of "exciting news"... that are actually only really exciting for the people who sent them.

In an ideal world, I'd receive zero of those. I can just find out about things organically.

I don't think I've ever wished to receive a single e-mail about icons—or from any library I use, tbh

SAI_Peregrinus•17m ago
Opt-out is not consent. If I didn't opt in, I mark it as spam.
basilikum•13m ago
Why is this blog on a sudomain of wpcomstaging.com?

Is this actually an official site by fontawsome? If yes, what a pack of clowns. I hope their spam emails rot in every spam filter forever.

layer8•7m ago
The official blog is here: https://blog.fontawesome.com/we-have-a-99-email-reputation-g...
layer8•9m ago
Better link: https://blog.fontawesome.com/we-have-a-99-email-reputation-g...
bar000n•7m ago
I can understand the frustration but let's face it: you cannot fool huge email providers such as Gmail. They have huge userbases and if their users mark some of your messages as spam then you're screwed.

I am email admin since 2003 and I have real email users, i don't take customers who send any sort of automated messages, and I never had any issues besides the occasional compromised mailbox once in a while, and that was way back in the day...

dwedge•7m ago
Oh man another spammer complaining about spam filters. You are the reason email sucks, the rest of us can complain about you
dwedge•6m ago
The reputation thing is bull by the way, you don't need to spam people continually to get your email delivered - otherwise every normal people would know this was true.

Of course you have an A+ reputation, the service assumes people want to receive your crap

cs02rm0•3m ago
> At our CORE, our instinct is to only email folks when we actually have something fun to share. A big release, something we’re excited about, news worth your time. That’d probably be every couple of months, if that. Respectful. Low noise.

Low noise for some fonts is zero emails. In the nicest way possible, users aren't excited about your big release, they're just not.

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