It was fascinating, that the MAGA American conservatives lump the US together with Europe into "the West" though there has been significant differences in the averages people world view (and the elites ofc)
Europe (ofc also diverse internally) is a secular or secular-becoming continent. There wouldnt be any big movement fighting to put the 10 commandments into class rooms. This affects formally religious countries like Spain or Ireland and now also Poland.
Even most conservatives (at least in Germany) see gay rights as the part of the German way of life. See also the last judgement of the European Court of Justice regarding Hungary.
MAGA is lava for election in many many countries.
Also "in the West" people in countries like Canada, Australia or most European countries don't like to be lumped together with the US anyway. So why MAGA people care?
AnimalMuppet•1h ago
Because they perceive themselves as leading something bigger than a USA-only movement. Their concept of themselves has them being much more important than just affecting one nation.
hkpack•54m ago
It is funny that in terms of values they are not a leader but a follower of Russia. The origin and protector of all their conservative values - including fake Christianity, view on power and gender, race, minorities government structure and so on and so forth.
stellardrift•1h ago
For MAGA, saying the quiet part out loud, "the west" = white people. While I dislike looking at everything solely through a racial lens, I think in this case it applies.
santoshalper•54m ago
There really is no sense in pretending that this is not a white supremacy movement. They are saying it out loud. Now we just need to figure out what this means and how to deal with it.
charcircuit•43m ago
Maintaining the culture of white people does not require white supremacy.
none2585•33m ago
Separate but equal right?
g4t0r•13m ago
"White people" do not have culture.
Irish people, German people, Scandivian people: yeah, sure, of course they have culture.
But "white" is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion. CF: people who are now, and previously weren't, considered white (Poles, Italians, some Jews, etc).
If whiteness exists only to delineate the in groups/out groups, the only "culture" of whiteness is that of protecting the power of those deemed to be "white".
So, yeah, I think "maintaining the culture of white people" inherently requires a concept of white supremacy.
SpicyLemonZest•54m ago
I think the religion difference is a lot smaller than you're giving it credit for. In Germany, most conservatives vote for an explicitly Christian political party and Good Friday is a public holiday. It's also my understanding, although I haven't researched this in detail, that German public schools are permitted or even required to offer religious instruction far beyond what would be allowed in the US.
StrauXX•45m ago
The party is called the "Christian Democratic Party" but in practice pushes no christian policies. 47% of germans are legally atheists. Only 5% regularly visit mass.
SpicyLemonZest•35m ago
All very true, but I don't think it contradicts my point. Perhaps the lower prevalence of religious participation in Germany makes German secularists more comfortable with religious symbols and practices.
duped•39m ago
When Americans describe themselves as "Christian" they are effectively talking about a different religion than the "Christian" in CDU. Americans that do fit into that same bucket use words that describe the so-called "mainline" Christianity like "Catholic" or "Lutheran."
The only thing that modern evangelical churches have in common is they read the same bible and believe Christ was resurrected, but their theology is different, their practices are different, there is no formal clergy or clerical education/scholarship, and their values typically invert from what every other Christian denomination teaches. And there are more cults than you can possibly imagine.
snowpid•37m ago
The churches are rather pro-refugee, the majority in Germany is rather not. What do the conservatives do in a democracy? They follow the majority.
The German state is linked more to religions but rather trajectory it is becoming more secular. My example about Texas shows the different direction and shows how Germany is changing into a different direction then what MAGA people want.
next_xibalba•53m ago
> It was fascinating, that the MAGA American conservatives lump the US together with Europe into "the West"
This is not “MAGA Americans” characterization. It is the outcome of 2000+ years of history culminating in the U.S. being primarily populated by European peoples and the post WWII world order, with highlights including the Marshall Plan and NATO.
snowpid•38m ago
Yet many Americans (not only) don't make a big attempt to understand other Western countries.
lopsotronic•17m ago
No citizen in a nuclear-armed state need learn anything about anyone else, save perhaps about other nuclear-armed states.
The Westphalian system of armed states had its legs chopped out from under it after 1945, but it's taking a while for a new way to materialize.
This is one of the reasons why the Absolute Worst Thing is a nuclear-armed state with uncertain borders. It took a while, but sure enough, some of the nuke powers turned expansionist, and now the poop's destined to be well and truly in flight.
snowpid•1h ago
Also "in the West" people in countries like Canada, Australia or most European countries don't like to be lumped together with the US anyway. So why MAGA people care?
AnimalMuppet•1h ago
hkpack•54m ago
stellardrift•1h ago
santoshalper•54m ago
charcircuit•43m ago
none2585•33m ago
g4t0r•13m ago
Irish people, German people, Scandivian people: yeah, sure, of course they have culture.
But "white" is not a culture, it's a social construct that exists primarily for exclusion. CF: people who are now, and previously weren't, considered white (Poles, Italians, some Jews, etc).
If whiteness exists only to delineate the in groups/out groups, the only "culture" of whiteness is that of protecting the power of those deemed to be "white".
So, yeah, I think "maintaining the culture of white people" inherently requires a concept of white supremacy.
SpicyLemonZest•54m ago
StrauXX•45m ago
SpicyLemonZest•35m ago
duped•39m ago
The only thing that modern evangelical churches have in common is they read the same bible and believe Christ was resurrected, but their theology is different, their practices are different, there is no formal clergy or clerical education/scholarship, and their values typically invert from what every other Christian denomination teaches. And there are more cults than you can possibly imagine.
snowpid•37m ago
The German state is linked more to religions but rather trajectory it is becoming more secular. My example about Texas shows the different direction and shows how Germany is changing into a different direction then what MAGA people want.
next_xibalba•53m ago
This is not “MAGA Americans” characterization. It is the outcome of 2000+ years of history culminating in the U.S. being primarily populated by European peoples and the post WWII world order, with highlights including the Marshall Plan and NATO.
snowpid•38m ago
lopsotronic•17m ago
The Westphalian system of armed states had its legs chopped out from under it after 1945, but it's taking a while for a new way to materialize.
This is one of the reasons why the Absolute Worst Thing is a nuclear-armed state with uncertain borders. It took a while, but sure enough, some of the nuke powers turned expansionist, and now the poop's destined to be well and truly in flight.