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Trump fires all 24 members of the U.S. National Science Foundation

https://www.science.org/content/article/trump-fires-nsf-s-oversight-board
234•skullone•1h ago

Comments

JumpCrisscross•1h ago
What are the equivalent institutions in China? Do they do open houses?
joe_mamba•1h ago
Why do you ask? Do you assume those fired NSF workers want to go work in China now? Or that China manages its domestic variant of the NSF better and accepts people critical of the CCP ideology?
throwaway27448•16m ago
Most people in china are not members of the CPC. And yes, they clearly are more competent.
Spooky23•8m ago
Our entire economy is built on scientific advancement and advantage. The dismantling of everything to maximize executive power in order to maximize grift and corruption will have effects for decades.

This is the American version of the cultural revolution. We’re pushing people to be plumbers instead of scientists.

Aurornis•1h ago
I disagree with this move, but the people who lost these positions were in temporary advisory roles. This isn’t a career job for them.

The article says 8 members are replaced every 2 years and the terms are 6 years long. Between 1/4 or 1/2 of them would have been replaced during this presidency, and whoever gets placed now will start to be replaced by the next administration.

As for China: They’re not known for having independent advisory committees overseeing government decisions. They’re definitely not known for inviting foreigners to come join their government to oversee their spending. So if you’re implying these people are at risk of going to China to serve the same role, that’s way off the mark.

joe_mamba•1h ago
>The article says 8 members are replaced every 2 years and the terms are 6 years long.

So it's similar to working for the UN or IAEA where most jobs are fixed term.

jazzyjackson•55m ago
I expect this will have downstream effects on more careers than just these 24 people.
citizenkeen•30m ago
I don’t share your optimism that these positions will be replaced. I don’t know why you think they would be.
huxley•23m ago
Oh they’ll be replaced, by toadies and GOP Youth interns looking for a salary and resume boost
tensor•27m ago
Oh so only 1/2 to 3/4 of them were terminated far outside of norms. I guess only 50%-75% corrupt anti-science activity is totally ok.
smegma2•25m ago
Why not find out and let us know? You’re implying an answer without knowing what it is
bdangubic•23m ago
It would be quite amazing if people in the US realized how much brain went to China in the last 16 months. I am a govie (contractor) and just what I know alone is …
superkuh•1h ago
Since science.org has made all their content inaccessible behind cloudflare here is a mirror of the article text, http://pastie.org/p/3coKAFruPfdJjw5s2H9tbX/raw
matt3210•1h ago
There’s only one reason to get rid of all the smart people, shenanigans are afoot.
hn_throwaway_99•27m ago
Dr. Jessica Knurick has done a great job IMO breaking down how authoritarian governments co-opt science to their own ends and end up destroying it in the process. Here is one such article, https://open.substack.com/pub/drjessicaknurick/p/the-authori..., but she has lots of posts and short form videos explaining the topic.
throwaway48965•7m ago
Look at all the astroturfing on this article. The DEI scammers are mad they are getting defunded.
yalogin•56m ago
Meanwhile all the ceos of Apple, OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, nvidia and palantir went to kiss his feet one more time. That obviously did not happen now but you would have believed it.
jmyeet•55m ago
It's just own-goal after owl-goal with this administration.

Federal research funding (NIH, NSF, etc) becomes economic power. I personally think the government should get a return on their research dollars but basically federally funded research has been given away to private companies since 1980 [1]. Interestingly, the Bayh-Dole Act was signed by president Jimmy Carter in a lame duck Congress after Ronald Reagan's election victory.

Federal research (via DARPA) is what gave the US so much control over the Internet. NIH funding into drugs gives US pharma companies a lot of power. mRNA technology was the product of decades of government-funded research. The US can (and does) wield that power to extract concessions from other countries.

In a little over a year American power on the world stage has been eroded, even destroyed, to a scale that I never would've predicted or thought could happen so quickly.

This is what I find so crazy: these moves are beyond performative politics. It's actually destructive to American power and corporate profits. Culture wars are meant to distract people while the government transfers money from government coffers to the wealthy. Culture wars aren't meant to be the goal. We're in a new era here.

And of course it's going to be China who fills the research void.

Well done, everybody, the system works.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayh%E2%80%93Dole_Act

dnnddidiej•52m ago
Trump is dangerous. Not a long term thinker. Probably not a short term one either.
gwerbin•49m ago
Trump is a symptom, a tool, and a distraction. The people whispering in his ear are the real danger.
zzleeper•36m ago
So, Thiel, Musk, and?
burkaman•31m ago
He is also the real danger. He is an adult responsible for his own decisions and capable of saying no. Treating him and his supporters like easily manipulated children is not helpful.
CamperBob2•30m ago
The people who voted for him are the real danger.
wat10000•24m ago
77 million people thought he should be in charge. Nearly 40% of Americans still think he's doing a fine job. I'll be glad to see the back of him, but it won't solve the problem.
Der_Einzige•12m ago
Getting downvoted for telling the truth. They are dangerous.
GolfPopper•28m ago
>It's just own-goal after owl-goal with this administration.

The presumes that "Trump Administration" and "United States of America" are the same thing. The reality is that a Venn diagram of them would be two circles that barely touch. Is it really an "own goal" if you gravely injure your victim while you rob them?

butAlso•7m ago
I have colleagues and friends around the world who are done with Americans over the lack of meaningful political action

It's not just American right wingers turning off the world. The world sees how unexceptionally gen pop reacts in the US as our local politics destabilize everyone

America is a normal country now. All the WW2 heroes are dead and soldiers since were imperialist aggressors. We don't dare worship Vietnam vets or middle east vets as those conflicts were not so valorous. That we have to point back so far to feel good about our history says a lot about how long America has been falling apart.

For decades Academics been saying the decline of America started in the 1950s and has accelerated only as countries we bombed to hell to stay ahead normalized. I tend to agree.

America has really not been that great this whole time. But like every other nation, Americans been propagandized by each other to believe their American made bullshit don't stink.

In my career I have had endless obligations and expectations put on me by peers not out there protesting to cover my healthcare. IMO that's says it all about much Americans care about each other.

metalman•43m ago
Take That China! that will show them!
kenjackson•42m ago
So is this a 2400% reduction in the number of NSF board members?
tempestn•22m ago
This is a reference to RJK Jr's pronouncement that Trump has a "different way of calculating percentages". Seems apt to me in this context.
Terr_•9m ago
Very much another "Emperor's New Clothes" situation.

If the pathology was entirely within his own privately-owned company that'd be one thing, but Americans are going to continue to get hurt because of it.

0xbadcafebee•36m ago
An expected part of Project 2025[1]. The end goal is to install Trump allies as heads of every agency that matters to their agenda, and to shut down all agencies that don't. This way by end of 2028 there is nobody left in government who can speak out against what they're going to do next.

If you have not read Project 2025 in a while, I encourage you to revisit it[2]. In summary it's a point-by-point plan to take over the entire federal government in order to enforce a single political ideology and suppress dissent. You can track[3] it as it gets implemented.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 [2] https://static.heritage.org/project2025/2025_MandateForLeade... [3] https://www.project2025.observer/en

k310•32m ago
Putin is happy with his investment.

Xi, we shall see.

youre-wrong3•23m ago
Joke isn’t funny anymore
JKCalhoun•3m ago
No, and it's just not a joke anymore.
SomaticPirate•22m ago
Every American here has allowed the quickest decline of a superpower in history. The damage to our country is irreparable and going to result in a worse life for generations to come
rectang•16m ago
Trying to find a silver lining and think positively...

Will a future administration have an opportunity to build something new and better from scratch which would not have been possible due to institutional resistance before it was all burnt down?

simonw•4m ago
If we're really, really lucky.

Destroying institutions is one heck of a lot easier than building new ones.

sega_sai•15m ago
Presumably next he will nominate Kushner, Dr. Oz and a few donors... What a shame for a country.
fionic•12m ago
There’s a lot of political commentary in these threads about how dumb the admin is this and that, sarcasm, etc. but is anyone able to share why this is such a truly beneficial org to our country? I’m just out of the loop on this and I’m genuinely asking, I have never really heard of them. But by the reactions in the comments they’re like the most blessed org of our country and accelerate innovation and advancement of the USA. It’s just a foundation? Please just let me know, I’m not trying to be weird and I’d appreciate being civil about it.
eat_veggies•7m ago
From the Wikipedia article about the NSF:

> With an annual budget of about $9.9 billion (fiscal year 2023), the NSF funds approximately 25% of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities. In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics, and the social sciences, the NSF is the major source of federal backing [...] Since the technology boom of the 1980s, the U.S. Congress has generally embraced the premise that government-funded basic research is essential for the nation's economic health and global competitiveness, and for national defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Science_Foundation

simonw•5m ago
This is the kind of scientific research which companies don't generally pay for because it doesn't have direct commercial application, but that companies and the economy benefit from enormously because you can use the results of that science to build a great deal of useful commercial things.
stackghost•6m ago
You've never heard of the National Science Foundation?

I'm not even American and I've heard of it. The NSF's mission is to promote science and engineering in all 50 states.

hectdev•6m ago
Wiki: "With an annual budget of about $9.9 billion (fiscal year 2023), the NSF funds approximately 25% of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities.[5][6] In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics, and the social sciences, the NSF is the major source of federal backing."

Personal: Always saw them as contributing to PBS kids shows I watch growing up.

MobiusHorizons•6m ago
My understanding is that the national science foundation supports scientific research presumably through grants. Academia is already having a lot of funding troubles, so this likely means things will get worse in the academic sciences.
konaraddi•5m ago
> the NSF funds approximately 25% of all federally supported basic research conducted by the United States' colleges and universities.[5][6] In some fields, such as mathematics, computer science, economics, and the social sciences, the NSF is the major source of federal backing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Science_Foundation

EDIT: other folks beat me to it

SecretDreams•4m ago
You're not expected to be in the loop for why every minor org in the government is helpful to the country, much like I'm not supposed to know the roles and responsibilities of everyone else in my company.

But if I have a specific question regarding what some entity does, I can always look into it on my own time, rather than have a default stance on what they might do/not do.

stevemk14ebr•4m ago
> It’s just a foundation? Please just let me know

We are each responsible for learning ourselves, and we live in a time where that is easier than ever. I find it odd your default position is to assume it is not important.

porcoda•3m ago
NSF is one of the primary agencies supporting research in the US. It’s not a “foundation” in the sense of charitable foundations if that’s what’s confusing you about their name. The base research engine that fuels the US in most disciplines comes from support like NSF, DOE, NIH. Damage those, and you damage the foundation upon which a lot of our intellectual strength sits.