Louis Rossmann tells 3D printer maker Bambu Lab to 'Go (Bleep) yourself'

https://www.tomshardware.com/3d-printing/louis-rossmann-tells-3d-printer-maker-bambu-lab-to-go-bleep-yourself-over-its-lawsuit-against-enthusiast-right-to-repair-advocate-offers-to-pay-the-legal-fees-for-a-threatened-orcaslicer-developer

112•iancmceachern•1h ago

Comments

smitty1e•1h ago

Who are some 3D printer vendors that are worthy of support?

sottol•50m ago

I would have said Prusa a year or two ago but they've reneged a little on their open-ness. That was probably in response to Bambu being fully closed and gaining so much market share.

The Core line of printers seems promising and a big leap towards closing the gap towards Bambu's corexy printers but haven't used one yet and I've been out of the game a little. Bambu though is probably more of a high-end appliance type than Prusas more utilitarian feel.

GuB-42•49m ago

I'd say Prussa.

I am not going to say they are perfect, but I think they have a good balance of ethics, openness, product quality, innovation, availability and price. By that I mean their are the best in none of them, but I don't think of anything better as a combination.

nullstyle•40m ago

Prusa sat on its haunches for a decade, happy to hold the whole industry back as long as their salaries got paid. Bambu actually got non-technical people into the hobby and has always had more bang per buck.

Buy a bambu; use Orcaslicer

stavros•25m ago

How did Prusa hold the industry back? Were they suing other printer manufacturers who innovated?

"Not innovating myself" isn't the same as "holding other's innovations back".

sottol•14m ago

My thing with bambu was always that they polished whatever the industry (and hobbyists) had invented and closed it all off, then also innovating on top of that but never giving back unless they _had_ to. Polish and mechanical design are great but corexy kinematics, input-shaping are imo what made the X1 stand out as the fast+good-qual printer when it launched. A lot of what they added on top was then to build a moat.

This may be a controversial take, but imo it would be Bambu to set the industry back by a decade if they "win" and lock up the market. That's clearly their strategy afaict.

Does anyone remember Bambu patenting existing open inventions as their own? I can't seem to find good links anymore (?!) but there's some details here https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5134/8/6/141

therouwboat•10m ago

I did quick search and bambu p2s seems to be 30% faster than prusa mk4s and few hundred cheaper. Prusa is more accurate, more open and has better spare parts supply. Bambu doesn't have wifi connection unless I use their cloud?

I'm gonna keep using mk4s.

Lukas_Skywalker•38m ago

I have a Prusa MK3S and it has been very very reliable. There's also a ton of mods you can download and print, which modify or extend the printer for specific use cases. They are a bit more expensive then their Chinese counterparts, but in my opinion, it's definitely worth the extra cost for the peace of mind.

stavros•26m ago

Prusa is the most open of the printer manufacturers. They did have to backtrack a bit because Bambu copied their slicer to use for themselves and undercut them, but they're still as open as you can get in a capitalist economy.

kennywinker•23m ago

I just bought a qidi printer. It arrives in a few days, so I can’t speak to the machine’s quality beyond saying it’s reviewed pretty well - but the software is all open source klipper with no locks preventing you from modifying it. The hardware itself is closed source, but if you want an open hardware machine in 2026 you need to build your own voron.

cjbgkagh•22m ago

Obviously it depends on what you’re doing and what is importante to you. It’s hard to beat Bambi Labs H2D or X2D for versatility, practicality, and price. Engineering filaments are getting a lot cheaper as the market expands so it helps to have a printer than can handle those. Given Bambi Labs is so cheap compared to the alternatives customers would probably be better off putting aside the savings to buy a second printer from a different supplier when one starts to catch up.

ChristianJacobs•57m ago

Bambu showed their true colours last year when they would've eliminated offline access altogether if not for public outrage. You don't own your Bambu printer, you're leasing it at a subsidised premium.

This move does not surprise me at all, and I'm genuinely happy that Louis is willing to shell out money to help those that can't defend themselves.

I'm happy that Bambu finally made Prusa care, but I will not cheer them even if they consistently innovate. It's just sad.

j1elo•55m ago

Pawel Jarczak could consider donating the code to an anonymous random friend who happened to upload it to a chinese code forge where development could continue.

PunchyHamster•52m ago

Definitely gives me second thoughts about getting one. They look like easiest way to get into 3d printing as a tool (rather than another hobby), but their recent attitude just makes me think I should suffer a bit less advanced product just to not have to deal with that shit.

vitaflo•31m ago

You can use Bambu printers fully offline. All this vitriol about them is severely misplaced IMO.

stavros•28m ago

That comes with a big caveat. You can either choose to use the printer offline, or online, with no ability to use both. If you want the ability to monitor or pause a print when you're not home on the off chance something goes wrong, you HAVE to send every print through their cloud, there's no middle ground.

That's not Bambu being open, that's them doing the absolute minimum to allow people to say "you can use Bambu printers fully offline" in comment sections.

Toutouxc•20m ago

Wait, that’s still just about their phone app. When you disable the cloud features, you lose the phone app, but otherwise the printer is fully usable. You can still connect to it through Bambu studio, you just have to roll your own networking (e.g. a VPN), right?

greggsy•6m ago

Can you access all that on you local lan though?

If so then you could access it over a reverse proxy like Tailscale.

Its trivially easy to set one up these days.

HowTheStoryEnds•26m ago

Where can I get the source code they modified?

Aurornis•49m ago

OrcaSlicer supports Bambu printers already. Does anyone have any better sources for what this other fork supposedly did?

EDIT: I’m not going to sit through another angry Louis Rossmann video, but from what I can see someone tried to make a branch of OrcaSlicer that interacted directly with Bambu’s private cloud APIs to impersonate Bambu Studio. I don’t agree with the legal threats but this case is about connecting to their non-public cloud APIs, not connecting to the printer directly.

exitb•36m ago

Some time ago the printers were able to communicate over both cloud and local protocols. Then, in a firmware update, they created distinct modes for those. You can still use the printers with OrcaSlicer, but in a mode that prevents being controlled by cloud too.

ben-schaaf•29m ago

Note that at least for now you can also downgrade the firmware and use the "legacy" plugin with OrcaSlicer to fully restore functionality.

hamdingers•25m ago

This is a feature. When I enable LAN mode I do not want Bambu to be able to control my printer.

It remains astonishing to me that this is controversial. Not everyone has the knowhow to block internet access to their printer, so having a toggle in firmware is terrific. I've verified after turning it on that it never phones home. Couldn't be happier.

exitb•20m ago

It’s fully understandable to want that and exactly what I use too. It still sucks for people that did want to start their prints locally and control them over the app.

jonpurdy•33m ago

Very useful comment. I’ve had an A1 Mini for a year now and it has been my favourite purchase in years. Like when I got my first mobile phone, I feel like I’ll have some sort of 3d printer for the rest of my life. Bambu made it super easy and inexpensive for this to happen.

I’m completely against bullying and attempts to lock out open source software from using 3d printers directly; if they locked out OrcaSlicer from direct control I’d have a big problem with that.

But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block. I think a cease and desist might backfire on Bambu but i don’t think it’s unreadable. (Didn’t watch the video. Just getting context from parent comment. )

stavros•30m ago

It's not like you have a choice, the printer doesn't work locally unless you enable LAN mode, and then it only works locally. Bambu make you pick either "closed servers" or "the mobile app doesn't work" for no reason.

I'll chip in to this developer's legal defense fund because I want to be able to do whatever I want with my printer, and "I can't do what I want with my printer" is a bigger problem for me right now than "the developer made a TCP connection on my behalf to a server he didn't own".

switchbak•15m ago

But we’re geeks, we can run tailscale on the local lan and access it anywhere, no? Obviously that’s not for everyone, but that’s workable for savvy users, no?

dspillett•25m ago

> But trying to interact directly with Bambu’s private infrastructure/APis seems reasonable for Bambu to block.

Even if they have taken away other routes that used to exist so that this is the only way?

I've also been very happy with my A1 (bought ~18 months go), and have since bought a U1 (which has networking problems of its own, but is otherwise a great upgrade) alongside it. Unless Bambu changes its tack significantly I'll not be buying another of their machines or more of their materials¹.

--------

[1] well, maybe the light grey PLA as I've not yet found anything similar enough easily available in the UK, and it is perfect for prints that I want to look neutral or for some scifi ships & similar…

RobotToaster•28m ago

Bambu's proprietary networking plugin uses the agpl libraries from slic3r/prusaslicer, by not releasing the source code they're violating the AGPL.

dspillett•17m ago

> I’m not going to sit through another angry Louis Rossmann video

Try https://youtu.be/0tdZ5Z7nRDY?si=vjnJ90p6ba_Xik9B for a less emotive take on this specific case, and the closely related matter of Bambu's attempt to circumvent some of AGPL's protections.

Aurornis•14m ago

Since you’re familiar with the topic, any sources that are not YouTube videos?

xattt•14m ago

Although local LAN control is still unhindered, browsing the filesystem on the printer from the slicer is locked behind cloud mode.

Getting cloud mode means using Bambu Studio. Getting Bambu Studio means one more notch in slowly getting locked into the walled Bambu garden.

chappi42•41m ago

Rossmann lost all my respect when he shit-talked GrapheneOS. Bambu works great. He can rant around the world while monetizing his videos. I neither care nor listen.

gosub100•38m ago

he projects a lot of is emotional issues into his work. I support what he does, but he appears to make himself miserable in the process.

cjbgkagh•28m ago

I think there is an element of audience capture. Similar to how ElectroBOOM has to keep electrocuting himself for his audience. It’s a living…

stavros•27m ago

Maybe you know this, but ElectroBOOM doesn't actually electrocute himself, it's just a running gag.

cjbgkagh•20m ago

The few I’ve seen were obviously staged but it did appear real in that he was hit with a high voltage. Looking it up suggests that he has been injured a number of times due to miscalculations.

gosub100•16m ago

It sure seems real to me. although some of those HV circuits like the jacob's ladder seem way too dangerous.

dralley•10m ago

As a matter of fact he has mentioned that one of the Jacob's Ladder videos was the only time he messed up and came close to actually electrocuting himself (by reflexively trying to grab the leads as they fell off a table). Otherwise all of the shocks are "calculated" to be nonharmful.

HowTheStoryEnds•22m ago

Bambu Labs is completely ignoring their legal duties under the AGPL code they used while trying to make others comply to their licensing terms through abuse of the legal system.

Nobody forced them to use said code, they chose to when it was in their best interest and now they renege on the part in the license (the only thing that gives them a right to use and build on said code) when they deem it not in their interest any longer and think they're big enough to squash individuals protesting.

Nothing wrong there, right, chairman?

daneel_w•19m ago

If you are referring to his video from May 2023, "Why I deleted GrapheneOS", it is about the team lead, Daniel Micay, not about GrapheneOS itself. He, in fact, praises GrapheneOS to no end in the very same video.

hamdingers•8m ago

Perhaps the fact that he brings petty interpersonal drama wherever he goes is the root of the complaint?

iwontberude•27m ago

They just can’t help themselves, they want market share and the margins

exabrial•25m ago

Louis is one of the most passionate YouTubers you can watch. I don't think he gets it right 100% of the time, but when you are that vulnerable (and what appears to be authentic) you're bound to not make the the right call every once in awhile (as we all do).

I support him even though people can pick him apart.

the_biot•16m ago

As a matter of fact he's a never-ending source of drama and outrage, all of which are his own opinions. His repair channel isn't even about repair anymore, it's all drama, all the time. I can hardly believe people fall for his shtick anymore.

stingraycharles•11m ago

Yeah I agree, it’s almost a political drama channel at this point and his opinions lack nuance.

I don’t understand why an article from Tom’s Hardware about an opinion of Louis Rossman who tells a 3D printer maker to go fuck themselves is currently the most upvoted article on HN.

sillysaurusx•5m ago

And yet he’s having an effect. Are either of you pledging $10k to defend hackers in court?

I can hardly believe headlines like these are met with anything but cheers. It’s literally the hacker spirit in the classical sense: a big company is trying to legally threaten a project offline, and people like Louis are helping prevent that.

You could at least throw in a “it’s cool that he’s pledging money” before insulting his channel. And if his channel wasn’t as political as it is, it’s doubtful he could rally the kind of support we’re seeing here.

greggsy•10m ago

His passion does manifest as drama 90% of the time, but it’s somewhat necessary to build momentum and attention to the causes that he promotes. Also, he has to toe the line of opinion to avoid being slapped with spurious legal challenges.

BoredPositron•9m ago

It would help if he wouldn't throw fits like a high schooler in a lot of his videos. For his brand and for the causes he champions. Its almost only drama on his channel now.

rdiddly•23m ago

Can someone explain to me like I'm 5, why you would need to communicate with a cloud service to use a 3D printer?

junon•21m ago

You don't really, but the entire ecosystem is quite ergonomic for people who don't want to fiddle with software, connections, config, permissions, etc. and Just Print something.

Not defending Bambu. The UX is quite straightforward and easy, however.

coldbrewed•20m ago

Remote device control allows for running and monitoring prints from another networks with zero effort, but more importantly local device control can't be monetized. It's just about the money.

gambiting•19m ago

So you obviously it's not necessary at all, but Bambu built their entire brand on ease of use - the app allows you to pick from thousands and thousands of premade models and send them to your printer directly from the app. Judging by the Facebook Bambu groups, most people never bother with installing PC Bambu Studio. And because phones don't necessarily have the raw power to slice the model on device, it's sent to their servers for slicing to fit your printer and filament type.

So it's a nice to have thing, but it could have very easily been optional. Instead they made it so that every print, even ones sent from Bambu Studio, has to go through their servers(unless you enable Lan mode)

delecti•15m ago

To steelman their use case, Bambu has marketed themselves as the most approachable way to get into 3D printing. In addition to their low prices, that includes ease of setup, and ease of going from a model on their website to a physical object in your hand. If you're already getting the model from their website (and realistically, the overwhelming majority of 3d prints are downloaded), then having their online software ecosystem handle everything for you just reinforces that approachability.

But realistically, because if they control how you use your machine, they can start skimming profit off of those digital services every time you print something. That's only works if they have control over how you use the machine in your house.

To outward appearances, they seem to be trying to recreate the printer ink/razor blade business model on 3d printers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Razor-and-blades_model#Printer...

freeopinion•6m ago

Should we start with an explanation of why you would need to communicate with an IP network to use a 3D printer? Is it impossible to just plug in a USB connection and print?

amelius•20m ago

Reminds me of:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tQIdxbWhHSM

rafram•17m ago

When was the last time Rossmann had anything nice to say? He seems utterly miserable. I don’t doubt this is an important issue, but when he inserts himself into a dispute, it only gets more overblown and vitriolic on all sides.

(The ridiculous NYC to Austin thing is pretty representative. Complained incessantly about loony liberal New York, moved to Austin, now he complains about Texas. Sorry! Turns out there is no utopia for pathological contrarians.)

gambiting•12m ago

He's just like Steve nowadays - he built his entire brand on being angry, so he has to be angry or his core audience will leave. And if that's what you like then fine, but for me it's just not interesting anymore.

the_af•15m ago

I have to say the Bambu A1 Mini has been a game changer for me. I wouldn't own a 3D printer otherwise. While it doesn't really "just work" as the hype would have it (I believe this is impossible with current tech), it comes pretty damn close. Probably the printer that does it best.

I didn't want another hobby, fiddling with settings and materials, and generally going down the 3D printing rabbit hole. I just wanted to print stuff for my actual hobbies. And the A1 does this, with little fuss, for which I am forever grateful.

selectively•12m ago

Oh boy, the lunatic libertarian that maintains a Kiwi Farms account and engages in a great deal of harassment has opinions.

This is HN. This isn't YouTube. Rossman is beneath this place.

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