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If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

https://jonready.com/blog/posts/claude-fable5-is-allowed-to-sabotage-your-app-if-youre-a-competitor.html
149•mips_avatar•1h ago

Comments

mips_avatar•1h ago
I'm really uncomfortable with these changes, like everything Anthropic's doing as "frontier research" today will be regular product engineering in a year.
tuggi•1h ago
It’s very frustrating…
mips_avatar•1h ago
Like if you hired a different services company who decided to sabotage your business that would be fraud.
Guillaume86•29m ago
The EU could/should probably legislate against this, it's bonkers...
varispeed•19m ago
It's probably already illegal, but given many government already use Anthropic models, they cannot really get the company to court.
numpad0•45m ago
I don't understand how businesses could trust cloud LLMs going forward with this ongoing "safety" paranoia. Building dependence on them doesn't feel like a sane strategic decision for users.
cubefox•34m ago
It's not paranoia. Cyber attacks have gone up massively in the past few months even with the weaker models we had so far. And Claude Mythos 5 scores even higher than the unreleased Mythos Preview on ExploitBench. If you made this capability publicly available you would see another acceleration of cyber attacks.
extr•31m ago
This isn't even about cyber attacks. This is just LLM development which is increasingly just called software development. And at least for cyber it says "Sorry I can't help with that"!
forshaper•29m ago
Looking better and better for people to go after local solutions.
mcmcmc•15m ago
Tell that to the GPU market
variety8675•44m ago
It is absolutely fine to distill the IP of everyone else, but you'd be violating the TOS to distill ours :)
mips_avatar•41m ago
Fine for me. Not for thee
anematode•34m ago
It's utterly bonkers. Hopefully the model weights get leaked. Then we can claim it's public domain or, at the very least, distill it and then release it for free.
david_shi•15m ago
Is there a technical term for this phenomenon? Ladder pulling?

https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu...

cyanydeez•5m ago
"Capitalism"
ashleyn•3m ago
I believe the term is "hypocrisy."
cute_boi•42m ago
I tried today and it gave cybersecurity error on base64 implementation. It is so nerfed....
mips_avatar•41m ago
At least it gave an error! This whole silent nerfing idea is so wrong
iLoveOncall•41m ago
At this point you're criminally incompetent if you still feed your proprietary data and code to AI labs.

They legally can steal it all and now you can't use the product of this theft to improve your own systems.

thot_experiment•41m ago
It's a SaaS, when in the history of SaaS has it ever been a good idea to trust that the company won't ruin the product under you?
booi•37m ago
I think there's a pretty big difference here. It's not like Github prevents you from building a Github competitor. Or Linear is preventing you from using it to build a Linear competitor.

This is more akin to Windows somehow preventing you from building a new OS.

Or worse yet, sabotaging vs preventing.

semiquaver•35m ago
A surprising number of companies do include “you may not use the service we provide you to compete with us” in their terms of service.

After a quick search the best example is Atlassian. It would (apparently, IANAL) break terms to plan a JIRA competitor using JIRA.

  > Customer must not (and must not permit anyone else to): [...] (d) use the Products to develop a similar or competing product or service
https://www.atlassian.com/legal/atlassian-customer-agreement
trhaynes•6m ago
Perhaps provide an example or two?
rhubarbtree•15m ago
Most of the time, which is why SaaS has been very popular.
Ifkaluva•40m ago
I guess an uncharitable way to read this might be “the ML engineers/scientists want to automate all of the jobs except their own.”
throwaway89864•30m ago
Insta-job security.
afavour•30m ago
The charitable read is that their restrictions for "safety" (i.e. what's separating Fable from Mythos) makes this inevitable. If you could just make your own Mythos it would circumvent the protection.

Which kinda just highlights how weird this situation is.

pablogancharov•39m ago
“When you realize the goal is the path, the pursuit itself becomes the prize. Stones in the road are not obstacles blocking your path; they are the path”

now I understand distillation is much more important thank I thought

CrankyBear•39m ago
"Claude can now be silently nerfed. Anthropic has decided it won't tell users when this happens." W T F!!
noncoml•38m ago
Disillusioned CEOs convincing themselves they have the mandate and right to define morality for everyone else. They get to decide what is right, wrong, permissible, or dangerous from the top, in the name of "safety". This is corporate nannying.
themaninthedark•24m ago
You just have to force behavior...

https://youtube.com/shorts/QmGGUnZNqv4?si=Q4CsGsYMvR02vay8

miroljub•23m ago
It's dangerous when personal moral and religious beliefs of company leadership leaks into the product itself and get force fed upon customers.
__natty__•33m ago
This makes Fable unusable for me. If I cannot tell whether I am paying for the whole service or just a partial one, because somehow their guardrails have decided my work silently broke their terms of service, then I prefer to go to older models or alternatives
maxall4•24m ago
As someone who works in bioinformatics, and, as such, does a great deal of machine learning, this makes Fable unusable for me as well.
flexagoon•11m ago
Fable would be unusable for you in a more literal way, since it just directly refuses to answer any query even remotely related to biology
maxall4•4m ago
I’m very aware of this as well.
varispeed•22m ago
I am sure they've been doing that with Opus. I am getting mixed results all the time.
gowld•33m ago
> If Claude gives me poor or incorrect advice while I’m working on an AI component, I have no way of knowing whether the model was confused, whether my problem is unsolvable, or if some invisible policy restriction quietly kicked in. Anthropic has explicitly chosen not to tell users when this is happening.

That's always been the case with corporate LLMs.

chroma_zone•13m ago
Minus the policy restrictions, this has always been true for all LLMs in general.
extr•33m ago
I'm a big fan of Anthropic. Just check my post history. I've been accused of working there. But this is complete bullshit and they need to get real. Silent sandbagging is not acceptable, especially given they've shown with this release their safety filters have HUGE amounts of false positives.
comboy•33m ago
I'm fairly certain they were doing something similar already possibly with some quantizations and not for the good humanity but just trying to handle the increased usage. Not for API requests though, just subscription CLI usage.
Anvoker•33m ago
This kind of opacity is unacceptably user hostile. It's not okay to treat some amount of developers as acceptable casualties, without them even knowing, in order to help enforce a restriction that only serves Anthropic's interests. And if you want to tell me this is for managing the x-risk factor, I'm frankly unimpressed.
somesortofthing•30m ago
This is a fun peek into the economic implications of RSI/ASI. Because it's so infinitely valuable that it basically destroys all markets, labs will eventually do stuff like stop releasing models completely and skipping out on contracted commitments because they'll have the power to just drive their competitors out of business before the legal battle gets expensive.

Cloud providers - at first smaller ones, then the hyperscalers - will follow suit, completely closing sales to anyone but the labs and demanding payment in equity/direct decision-making power rather than cash. There's no particular reason why the inference/training split has to be 80/20, and no amount of willingness to pay can help you in an event that turns your money worthless.

platinumrad•7m ago
Nothing is infinitely valuable.
trilogic•28m ago
https://huggingface.co/Trilogix1/Hugston-Nex-N2-Pro-gguf
darkbatman•28m ago
This is crazy and would be frustrating, I probably would just be using another model as authority and keep fable as reviewer only in this case.
derac•27m ago
Is there some consumer protection law around this?
antaviana•26m ago
It seems we now have a new product category, HaaS, Hallucination as a Service.
hmokiguess•26m ago
I'm sure someone is gonna be able to jailbreak, abliterate, or equivalent, on this input moderation attempt they have going on.
torben-friis•25m ago
They have a silent nerfing system for their models and say so openly. The obvious question is how much it is being used already.

Competitor companies being nerfed?

Non Americans getting worse code?

Punishing and rewarding users to maximize engagement, like online games do affecting victories through matchmaking?

Avicebron•24m ago
Can't you just switch the toggle that says "switch models when a message is flagged"? I turned mine off in case anything does get flagged I will know..

For now, I'm really not happy about this limited rollout and then turning off. That's probably the most egregious thing I think Anthropic has done recently

platinumrad•5m ago
This is a separate mechanism. The user is not notified about the flagging and rather than redirecting to a weaker model, the response is intentionally sabotaged.

It's user-hostile to the point of parody.

CamperBob2•24m ago
We’ve implemented new interventions that limit Claude’s effectiveness for requests targeting frontier LLM development (for example, on building ... distributed training infrastructure ...)

What an interesting thing to call out as a threat. Hmm.

mystraline•23m ago
I have never ever trusted "corporate ethics".

Theres no ethical framework. No axioms. Its a mixture of legal, political, and public-facing 'rules'. And what are the rules? Youre not permitted to know.

"We reserve the right to lie about the models we provide, silently downgrade you, and give you blatant misinformation cause you triggered our unstated rules... BUT we'll still use your token budget with lots of thinking and waste your money."

No, folks. Seriously, local LLMs are where its at. You can run the model YOU want, on your hardware, with no data exfiltration.

And with tools like Krasis that can synthesize nvidia ram and system ram as unified-ish memory, makes doing Local LLMs absolutely foable, now!

varispeed•23m ago
That's what I observed with Opus. This is probably a lawsuit going to happen because you pay for tokens and you expect to get performance you pay for, instead you never know if the model suddenly become dumb and your whole session has to be started again.
mrinterweb•22m ago
It kind of sucks, but I get the silent change. If a user was trying to use the model for something untoward, having a rejected prompt would just give signal to train on how to eventually successfully bypass security measures.
m_krebs•16m ago
this is probably overstating their abilities at present - I am experimenting with Fable on a completely benign personal application and I am constantly hitting the "cybersecurity and biology topics" guardrail
BoorishBears•14m ago
"Anthropic says these safeguards only affect 0.03% of developers. Maybe that's true today."

I don't think it's true today. It's like when schools mention "average class size", where that average is dominated by classes with like 2 students instead of classes with 100.

Much more honest would be the percentage of developers who previously used their models for the model development tasks they're targeting, but it actually looks like they're saying 100% of them are affected based on the language around it "always having been prohibited".

So awful.

exabrial•13m ago
New frontier in anti-competitive practices.
tempestn•12m ago
> If Claude gives me poor or incorrect advice while I’m working on an AI component, I have no way of knowing whether the model was confused, whether my problem is unsolvable, or if some invisible policy restriction quietly kicked in.

You should be able to know if your problem was solvable by using your own expertise and judgement, no? If you're relying on LLMs as a substitute for those, I wouldn't expect great results.

atleastoptimal•11m ago
There is a possibility this may not end at simply nerfing the model. The idea of manipulating the behavior of a model depending on the prompt given to it can extend to

1. Detecting if employees from competing companies are using it and sabatoge their work, even not LLM-training related

2. Direct users to outcomes that would justify higher compute spend. Deliberately coding a project to 95% completion but designed to be losing a critical step right before one's weekly rate limit is expended

3. Reduce the quality of writing when a person is writing an essay where the argument is against the interests of the model company, or steering the user using the model for brainstorming in a direction which causes them to waste time or abandon their train of reasoning

etc. etc. The possibilities are enormous. Many people use AI daily for their job, personal advice, companionship. A model company that steers the behavior of the model towards a deliberate outcome could develop a controlling interest in human behavior and productivity at large, even with subtle influence would compound enormously over its millions of users.

mickdarling•9m ago
No, this is their get out of jail free card if people start complaining about the model being dumb or forgetful or lying, they can just say, oh well, you must have been doing something that triggered its distillation prevention technique.

And, they can say that for anybody at any time, and you'll never know why, and there's no way to prove it.

Everyone needs a flight data recorder to prove... "here's what I was actually doing and why it was not distillation." And now you're having to prove your innocence instead of them having to prove you're guilty, and really at the end of the day, it's just the model being stupid that they're protecting themselves from.

jkxyz•7m ago
"To effectively contain a civilization’s development and disarm it across such a long span of time, there is only one way: kill its science." - Cixin Liu, The Three-Body Problem

This immediately made me think of the Sophons silently manipulating the sensors of particle accelerators to prevent humanity from developing advanced knowledge of particle physics.

The neural basis of thought symbols identified for the first time

https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/39690-neuroscience-brain-symbols-thought-cognition/
1•marc__1•1m ago•0 comments

Sao Paulo Notes

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2026/06/sao-paulo-notes.html
1•paulpauper•2m ago•0 comments

Replacing RAG with a cognitive memory stack in Elixir/OTP

https://0xcc.re/2026/05/03/skynet-towards-synthetic-neurobiology.html/
1•mikalv•2m ago•0 comments

A little progress is worth a trillion dollars

https://www.abundanceandgrowth.org/p/a-little-progress-is-worth-a-trillion
1•paulpauper•2m ago•0 comments

AWS App Runner availability change

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/apprunner/latest/dg/apprunner-availability-change.html
1•yakkomajuri•3m ago•0 comments

Gordon Wood, RIP

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/08/books/gordon-s-wood-dead.html
1•paulpauper•3m ago•0 comments

AI misidentification results in wrongful arrest; man seeks justice

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/ai-misidentification-results-wrongful-arrest-man-seeks-justice/...
1•text0404•4m ago•0 comments

RIP software hackathons. Long live the hardware hackathon

https://blog.oscars.dev/posts/rip-software-hackathons-long-live-the-hardware-hackathon/
1•ozcap•6m ago•0 comments

The Pros and Cons of Job Hopping as an Engineer

https://spectrum.ieee.org/strategic-job-hopping
1•jnord•7m ago•0 comments

Show HN: See what ChatGPT knows about you that Claude doesn't

https://github.com/Thinklanceai/agentkeeper
1•tomtom1977•7m ago•0 comments

Judge kills entire case when both lawyers submit AI filings

https://gizmodo.com/judge-cancels-whole-case-after-lawyers-admit-they-didnt-read-ai-generated-fil...
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Mechanical forces from the beating heart may help prevent cancer cell growth

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2026-04-mechanical-heart-cancer-cell-growth.html
2•PaulHoule•7m ago•0 comments

Reticulum Network

https://reticulum.network/manual/whatis.html
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Ask HN: Is software engineering still a good career choice for new students?

1•iliashad•9m ago•1 comments

CodegenBench: Can LLMs Write Efficient Code Across Architectures?

https://arxiv.org/abs/2606.04023
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Show HN: I made the first racing game for Reddit

https://sh.reddit.com/r/SpinoGhostRacing/comments/1tx1lfo/spino_ghost_racing_monza_formula_1/
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Aspen – Local LLM for Mortals

https://www.runonaspen.com/
1•mayankm•15m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Live audit log of every command, file, network connection by Claude

https://github.com/yeet-src/claudefeed
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Show HN: Persist.chat – Outreach and Sales Agents

https://persist.chat/
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https://arxiv.org/abs/2107.14210
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Nagent, an LLM loop reference implementation

https://github.com/macton/nagent
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Oilwell

https://oilwell.app
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The often-ignored system controlling your mood, memory, and focus

https://bigthink.com/perception-box/your-mind-body-connection-explained/
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https://duckduckgo.com/?q=freebsd
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https://www.the-independent.com/tech/ai-artificial-intelligence-un-electricity-water-sustainabili...
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Self Improving GTM Engineer Database

https://www.upside.tech/gtme/
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Guy broke the limits – AGAIN – 2 times;D

https://rogmash.neocities.org/synthesizer1
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Port React compiler to Rust (merged)

https://github.com/react/react/pull/36173
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The SAT Was Necessary After All

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2026/06/standardized-testing-math-gaps/687481/
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Programming a GBA Game on an iPhone

https://blog.adamledoux.net/posts/2026-06-08-programming-a-gba-game-on-an-iphone.html
1•akkartik•30m ago•0 comments