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Building an HTML-first site doubled our users overnight

https://mohkohn.co.uk/writing/html-first/
72•edent•1h ago

Comments

freedomben•33m ago
Good post, but:

> A venerable web application pattern that has had a small modern renaissance thanks to Remix

Remix is not that popular. I don't think attributing this to remix is accurate. Next.js quite possibly.

simonw•28m ago
The full context of that quote makes it clear that it's meant more as a wry joke:

> A venerable web application pattern that has had a small modern renaissance thanks to Remix, form submissions and redirects took a while to explain to my colleagues, on account of everyone being used to heavily client-side web applications.

(Although it's not really a joke, it's pretty amazing how many professional web developers these days don't know how to use forms without JavaScript.)

someonebaggy•18m ago
The opposite is why I'd never be a good web developer. I grew up messing around with PHP and if I spent the time to learn the modern stack, I'd constantly be thinking it's stupid.
afavour•28m ago
I think the author is suggesting that Remix was the inspiration for the renaissance, not that it's necessarily the most popular method for doing so.

I'd be curious to see the stats on how often Next.js users lean into the server component model that makes the frontend fast. My anecdotal experience is that it's an afterthought for many. By comparison, Astro (as mentioned by the author) makes you think about this stuff upfront via opt-in rather than opt-out. It's a wonderful framework.

arowthway•12m ago
Opt-in = action is required to opt in = off by default.
pspeter3•28m ago
I think Remix brought back interest in Form Actions and other meta frameworks took inspiration from that.
entropichorse•29m ago
People who built a crappy website using React are just as likely to build a crappy website using Astro, HTML-first approach or any other technology
afavour•27m ago
Not really, no. Astro requires you to opt a component in to client-side rendering, React (with its server components etc) require you to opt out. Defaults matter in scenarios like this and I'd bet the average developer of crappy websites would have a much faster site with Astro than React for that reason alone.
hyperhello•21m ago
I have seen React and its testing and add ons. It’s not for making web sites, it’s for making money.
someonebaggy•19m ago
At least it'll be a fast and crappy website.
cyanydeez•15m ago
yeah, I love when shit loads immediately, so I'm not wasting seconds of my life just to see shit.
nicoburns•10m ago
It's definitely possible to make slow server-rendered website. Most of the slow client-side apps are slow because they're waiting on slow network requests.

(I still very much support fast, simple HTML websites. The good ones are a fantastic user experience)

tootie•21m ago
I was a little confused by "doubled our users" since that's more about inbound traffic than site experience. I guess it's really shorthand for "halved form abandonment" which is still pretty great.
myself248•6m ago
I think that's even more significant, since it's measuring people who cared enough to click the form in the first place, which is juicier than just page loads.
romanovcode•12m ago
> In the most recent, contractors in another country had built a React app. The React app was online for 3 days before being pulled because of customer complaints. I took one look at it and told my boss “we can’t take ownership of this.” It was a mess of loading spinners and global javascript states. It was not accessible. Image upload was a vital part of the form, and it attempted to store images (along with all other form data) in localstorage which has a 5mb limit!

> contractors in another country

Sorry to spoil but the problem was not react. The problem was clearly this excerpt because we all know which country it was.

rafram•7m ago
No we don't. There are lots of countries with software outsourcing industries, and contractors in any country can be good or bad. Would you rather have a top IIT graduate, or someone who took a year of programming classes at a community college in Fresno?
ungreased0675•5m ago
Empathy and respect for users is what product managers should be doing.

Shipping tens of megabytes per web page is impolite, if not outright disrespectful to users.

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