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Should European housing politics be Americanized?

https://worksinprogress.co/issue/should-european-housing-politics-be-americanized/
9•JumpCrisscross•1h ago

Comments

irdc•26m ago
The issues around zoning are not comparable. For one, here in the Netherlands we have plenty of density and not a lot of missing-middle, but still a giant shortage.

The problem here was never zoning, it was a lack of building.

paulddraper•18m ago
What causes the lack of building?
kazen44•6m ago
a combination of many things.

For one, Cities in the netherlands are already quite dense, and the dutch are focused on building family houses attachted to each other mostly (row housing).

Also, thanks to the massive agricultural sector and a lack of oversight on industry, the netherlands has a massive problem with nitrogen in its soil which prevents building because building stuff generates more nitrogen.

Speculation and the liberalisation of the housing market has also massively contributed to price increases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_crisis_in_the_Netherl...

ako•5m ago
It’s expensive to build (many rules, not enough construction workers, expensive materials), expensive land, nitrogen policies, economic crisis 2008-2013 when there were no buyers for new houses.
JumpCrisscross•17m ago
> problem here was never zoning, it was a lack of building

Why isn’t the latter an effect of the former? I believe the Netherlands restricts building height by parcel unless a deviation procedure is granted, something I understand to be expensive and risky.

watwut•19m ago
That is weird article. Suburban zone nobody really cares about exists in some places therefore Europeans should make it big polarized political issue on the assumption that any suburban zone is the reason of all issues.

But like, did that polarized angry rhetorics actually solved the American issue?

JumpCrisscross•16m ago
> did that polarized angry rhetorics actually solved the American issue?

The issue was already polarized by the NIMBY’s. They just had a political monopoly. Pro-growth policies have resulted in new housing and abated price increases in several American cities.

xienze•19m ago
Funny how everything worked pretty well, zoning restrictions and all, until public policy shifted towards papering over population decline with mass migration. An immigrant needs a house _today_, a baby needs their own separate housing unit in roughly 20 years. One approach towards population growth flattens the housing demand curve considerably, and it's not the one we're pursuing any longer. That's what's changed.
paulddraper•17m ago
You’re going to be downvoted to heck.
JumpCrisscross•15m ago
> until public policy shifted towards papering over population decline with mass migration

Do you have a source showing price increases correlate with migration? (The article seems to show a timing relationship between zoning and prices.)

xienze•6m ago
Yeah I do, it's called supply and demand. To have a growing population, every couple needs to have an average of 2.1 children.

Let's say a couple have two children. From t=0 until approximately t=20, all four people require one housing unit.

If that same couple does not have children (guess what's happening in every single western country!) and we instead lean on migration to increase the population for them, at t=0 you have at least 2, maybe 3 housing units required for the same number of people. It's not complicated.

JumpCrisscross•4m ago
This is not how one attributes principal causation among multiple potential causes.
felooboolooomba•6m ago
> European policy debates often become Americanized because of the American domination of social media.

No it doesn't. And America doesn't dominate social media in Europe, except repeated administration scandals, paedofiles and history's largest pedo ring cover-up.

drnick1•3m ago
Lol, Europeans are quick to adopt all the worst things from America related to tech, including social media, streaming services, proprietary software, iPhones, and random IoT garbage.
yladiz•4m ago
Am I understanding that the solution proposed in the article is to allow more dense building in suburbs/outskirts of cities in Europe? This doesn't solve the actual problem that many European cities face, which is a housing shortage in the actual city center, where people want to live; there's generally not that much a lack of housing the further you get outside of a major city center in Europe, and people don't want to live outside of the city center because, well, they want to be in the city.
JumpCrisscross•3m ago
> people don't want to live outside of the city center

Are home prices just outside the city center stagnant?

secretsatan•3m ago
Could it be the author only read english articles?
netsharc•11m ago
And in the boom times of the 60's/70's, European factories, construction, infrastructure builders, needed workers "today", not "in 20 years"...
xienze•3m ago
Considerably less immigration was required for said workers because guess what, the requisite 2.1 children average per couple threshold was being met during those times.

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