Can China build its own ASML?

https://nikkei.shorthandstories.com/can-china-build-its-own-asml/

28•pieterr•1h ago

Comments

monssooon•21m ago

They can land stuff on the moon... Generally they have world class engineers and production... Just from that point or view I don't see why not...

A_D_E_P_T•21m ago

The answer is, of course, yes. What is there to stop them? Sure, it's difficult -- but where there's a will, and where the resources of China are involved, there is most assuredly a way.

I remember when their cars were a joke, and when their cellphones were cheap trash. Now I don't think I'd buy a non-Chinese new car or cellphone, lol.

ThrowawayTestr•17m ago

Is cutting edge even necessary? If you could build the last two nodes 10x as cheaply that would be way more valuable.

SXX•9m ago

If you have stolen IP designed for cutting edge processes you need about the same tech to produce said IP.

Producing 10x of 10-years old GPUs is not exactly useful for modern AI codebases for instance.

holoduke•1m ago

Constant blaming and framing others of stealing. State support, unfair practices etc is not gonna help you become successful. China is now part of the game. You better work with them.

jon-wood•1m ago

Despite rumours to the contrary the world does need things that aren't useful for modern AI codebases still, I'd really appreciate it right now if China could get some fabs going that just manufactured RAM, storage, and maybe a selection of chips that the big ones have given up on because its more profitable to endlessly churn out GPUs and NPUs.

trvz•6m ago

Cheaper isn’t even required; just better scalability.

exceptione•3m ago

The comparison with cars and cellphones falls short for ASML machines. The former categories involved western companies transferring IP to Chinese counterparts. So far, the Chinese have succeeded in stealing IP from ASML, but this is complexity in its own category. Also, the whole supply chain is part of the solution. That is a lot to copy.

But I agree that, given enough time, China should be able to. But Saab en Tesla handing over IP themselves, and phone makers letting China produce and assemble phones (maybe not as extensive these days anymore) is something different.

IshKebab•18m ago

Crazy that the US had to block ASML selling to China. I would have thought they'd do that themselves to reduce the risk of reverse engineering.

gregoriol•10m ago

Trying to prevent someone from having something they want is the best way to make them work twice harder to get it.

HSO•15m ago

obviously

the qn is if it will be what china wants and needs

more likely something better or more suited to the ecosystem in china will emerge

jruz•8m ago

I love to see China evolving so fast, the only producers bringing prices down.

metalman•4m ago

China IS building it's own chip foundrys and lithographic machines that ARE producing chips that ARE closing the gap towards parity with the best western (ASML) companys. The question is can they do that, this year, or next?

exceptione•2m ago

[delayed]

NordStreamYacht•54s ago

Inevitable. Huawei already had 7nm a couple of years ago.

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