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Town to City

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3115220/Town_to_City/
1•doener•29s ago•0 comments

Seeing the Future

https://jacksonprice.substack.com/p/seeing-the-future
1•NeedMoreCowbell•30s ago•0 comments

Intastellar Consents

https://www.intastellarsolutions.com/solutions/cookie-consents
1•felixaschultz•3m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Evaluation Context Protocol (ECP)

https://www.evaluationcontextprotocol.io/
1•aniketwattawmar•3m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Capacitor – shared mem for Claude Code, Cursor and other coding agents

https://capacitor.kurrent.io/
1•lougarou•3m ago•1 comments

The Legacy Survey of Space and Time has started, marking a new era in astronomy

https://noirlab.edu/public/es/news/noirlab2616/?nocache=true
1•sega_sai•3m ago•0 comments

Ferrari and BMW join Tesla, China in switch from copper to aluminium

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ferrari-bmw-join-tesla-china-switch-copper-...
2•RaSoJo•4m ago•0 comments

Where Does the Tone Come from in a Microphone Preamp? [video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-vIeA7yy6Q
1•BrokenCogs•5m ago•0 comments

Ask HN: It's World Social Media Day. Which current ones you do and don't enjoy?

1•busymom0•6m ago•0 comments

The mise en abyme in the Drowned World by James G. Ballard [pdf]

https://dialnet.unirioja.es/descarga/articulo/10247620.pdf
1•jruohonen•7m ago•0 comments

Codegrain – browser-based PDF/image/data tools, files never leave your tab

https://private-tools.codegrain.dev/en
1•shaidiuk•7m ago•0 comments

So, did Dolly from 'Moonraker' wear braces or not?

https://old.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/1uhwkh4/so_did_dolly_from_moonraker_wear_braces_or_not/
1•Teever•7m ago•0 comments

./the-bored-engineer –episode=1

https://github.com/quantumwake/kas
3•boredengineer•8m ago•1 comments

Booz Allen: What's in America's Code? Testing U.S. and Chinese LLMs for Security

https://www.boozallen.com/expertise/cybersecurity/whats-in-americas-code.html
1•jlark77777•9m ago•0 comments

Anonymous researcher drops 0-day 'exploitarium' repo

https://www.theregister.com/security/2026/06/29/anonymous-researcher-drops-0-day-exploitarium-rep...
1•logickkk1•9m ago•0 comments

Supreme Court strikes down executive order ending birthright citizenship

https://www.scotusblog.com/2026/06/supreme-court-strikes-down-trumps-order-ending-birthright-citi...
3•hallole•9m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Don't ask if devs cheat with AI, test if they're good with it

https://tryevaluator.com
3•skyepstein•14m ago•1 comments

The Origin of Continents and Geology's Theory of Everything

https://worksinprogress.co/issue/on-the-origin-of-continents/
1•duffycommaryan•14m ago•0 comments

Scammers Sell Seeds for Exotic AI-Generated Flowers That Don't Exist

https://www.404media.co/scammers-sell-seeds-for-exotic-ai-generated-flowers-that-dont-exist/
3•Brajeshwar•14m ago•1 comments

Show HN: Let your AI agent manage your link in bio

https://keepp.link/keepp-skill/SKILL.md
1•vasanthps•14m ago•0 comments

The Beauty of Tautologies

https://scottsumner.substack.com/p/the-beauty-of-tautologies
1•surprisetalk•14m ago•1 comments

Show HN: FastReact – FastAPI and React Starter Kit for AI SaaS

https://fastreact.dev/
2•turtledevio•15m ago•0 comments

Claude Code Is Steganographically Marking Requests

https://thereallo.dev/blog/claude-code-prompt-steganography
25•kirushik•15m ago•0 comments

OSS Rust Web framework inspired by Nest.js

https://rustnidus.com/
1•Vicbona•16m ago•0 comments

Why don't tech workers see themselves as workers?

https://techwerkers.nl/en/posts/myth-of-middle-class/
3•lowbar•17m ago•3 comments

We encode time in space, and pay in complexity

https://notes.shixiangxi.com/en/docs/dual-world-theory/preface/
2•sxx0•17m ago•1 comments

The Cantillion Effect – Adam Smith Institute

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/the-cantillion-effect
2•bilsbie•20m ago•0 comments

Everything Easy is Hard Again (2018)

https://frankchimero.com/blog/2018/everything-easy/
4•downbad_•20m ago•1 comments

Samsung, SK Hynix to Spend $520B on Chip Plants in South Korea

https://www.wsj.com/tech/samsung-sk-hynix-to-spend-520-billion-on-chip-plants-in-south-korea-7d50...
2•mushstory•21m ago•1 comments

Benchmarks and Obscurantism: A "red" line that should not be crossed

https://clickhouse.com/blog/databricks-reyden-benchmark-transparency-clickhouse
1•lightningspirit•21m ago•0 comments
Open in hackernews

Supreme Court upholds broad conception of birthright citizenship

https://apnews.com/live/birthright-citizenship-decision-supreme-court-updates-06-30-2026
62•toomuchtodo•1h ago

Comments

toomuchtodo•1h ago
Opinion:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/25-365_4hdj.pdf

News:

https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-birthright-citizens...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jun/30/us-supreme-c...

https://www.axios.com/2026/06/30/scotus-rejects-trumps-birth...

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/supreme-court-rule-...

https://www.scotusblog.com/2026/06/supreme-court-strikes-dow...

Related:

Protecting the Meaning and Value of American Citizenship - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42776131 - January 2025 (34 comments)

xvxvx•1h ago
Trump and his cronies were never going to win that battle. Like many things he does, it serves as a dog whistle to nationalists and allows him to paint anyone who opposes him as somehow un-American and an enemy of the ‘people’.
Varelion•50m ago
White nationalists, specifically, yeah. Colloquially known as Nazi wannabes.
Windchaser•9m ago
> Trump and his cronies were never going to win that battle.

He got dang close. He's only one justice replacement away from making it doable.

Gods, we are not as far from ripping up the Constitution as we'd like to think.

999900000999•1h ago
Thank God.

If only because this would open up people born here to having their citizenship retroactively revoked.

The constitution is pretty clear. If you don't like it amend it.

If anything we need to expand it to include anyone who gives birth in this country. If you're willing to deal with our horrible maternity care system and help keep up our declining population, you deserve a blue passport.

BugsJustFindMe•45m ago
> our declining population

Our what?

toomuchtodo•40m ago
The US Is Flirting With Its First-Ever Population Decline - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46960624 - February 2026 (1008 comments)

The nuance is ~71% of the world’s population now lives in countries with birth rates below the replacement level needed to maintain population size. US working age population cohort has likely peaked. The future of the developed world is fighting over global skilled workers and young potential immigrants who would settle and start families in your jurisdiction.

Is the U.S. Labor Force Nearing Its Peak? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48726615 - June 2026

The Fertility Rate of Every Country in the World - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/fertility-rate-of-world-pop... - May 17th, 2026

U.S. Total Fertility Rate by State 2007 vs 2025 - https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1qt22ka/oc... - February 2026

The demographic future of humanity: facts and consequences [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44866621 - August 2025 (400 comments)

Our World In Data: Population tool: How will populations across the world change in the 21st century? - https://ourworldindata.org/population-simulation-tool

("demography is destiny")

ryandrake•50m ago
5-4 though, yikes! This shouldn't have even been close. With an impassioned 91 page dissent by Thomas. What a chode.
blktiger•45m ago
I should be unanimous, it's what the constitution says. If you don't like it you need to go through the amendment process.
nonethewiser•42m ago
>I should be unanimous, it's what the constitution says

Thats a tautology. “What the constitution says” is the thing in question.

5upplied_demand•36m ago
The language couldn't be any clearer. The fact that it was questioned by people with a stated motive doesn't prove otherwise.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

crote•34m ago
Sure, but it leads to allowing for the possibility of interpreting "..the right to bear arms.." as "you are allowed to own the limbs of an Ursus arctos".

There's plenty in the US constitution which is vaguely worded, but you have to twist its words an awful lot to deny birthright citizenship.

sheept•24m ago
jjallen•49m ago
You can be pro/fine with legal immigration (and moderate/non-partisan) and still not think birthright citizenship is a good idea (like I do).

Also ~95% of countries don't have unconditional birthright citizenship. It creates perverse incentives.

Reminds me of legal abortion: practically everywhere in the world has it. If you are not in that vast majority you should be taking a very close look at yourself/things.

So yes, let's amend the constitution. It's been a while and we do it on average every ten years or so. I have personally not ever been involved in one.

goatlover•48m ago
Why do you think it's not a good idea?
jfengel•46m ago
It's not really a question of what's a good idea. It is in the text of the Constitution, about as plain as it can possibly be. If you want to change it, you have to change the Constitition.

Ironically, the same Court members who most often claim the plain text of the Constitution to support their ideas are the ones who put the most effort into finding a tortured reading of the 14th Amendment.

nonethewiser•44m ago
Please re read his comment. He’s saying the constitution should be amended.
danorama•42m ago
I think it was edited to add that?
mothballed
newaccount670•47m ago
It is a truly insane policy to grant citizenship to the kid of any tourist who happens to give birth on vacation. If the Supreme Court won't correct this, we need to pass a Constitutional Amendment to do it ourselves.
root_axis•46m ago
Why is it insane?
Chu4eeno•42m ago
I'm not him, but it creates some perverse incentives (like chinese billionaires who pay american surrogates to get implanted with dozens of their kids who get american citizenship).

https://fortune.com/article/chinese-billionaire-xu-bo-father... might be an outlier, but it's still weird, especially since the US is the only country that has this.

Jtsummers•36m ago
> especially since the US is the only country that has this.

Except it's not.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/03/31/us-style-...

It's a minority of countries that have rules like the US, but the US is not unique in this regard and there's no reason to keep repeating that lie.

root_axis•32m ago
This doesn't seem like a major problem. Immigration officials are already sensitive to birth-tourism and have had discretion to deny entry to obviously pregnant tourists even long before Trump.

Beyond that, if you're a billionaire you can just fast track a path to citizenship with a gold card.

paxys•44m ago
The most obvious read of the constitution in the world still being a 6-3 verdict shows the state of the Supreme Court today.
abi•39m ago
It's worse than that. It's 5-4 on the read of the constitution since Kavanaugh doesn't think it violates the 14th amendment, just a federal statute.
adharmad•35m ago
Looking at the dissents (Justice Gorsuch) it appears that he would consider illegal immigrants’ kids are citizens, but kids of legal non-immigrants are not based on the fact that one is a temporary visitor and another is not!
fmobus•8m ago
So, when I enter as a tourist, I'm not in jurisdiction? Sweet! Crime time!
rayiner•28m ago
Folks should read the opinion, including the concurrences and dissents: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/25-365_4hdj.pdf. They’re all good and well reasoned. The Court put a lot of work into this case.

This was a tricky case where the constitutional text contains ambiguous language (whether the child is “subject to the jurisdiction” of the U.S. at birth). Meanwhile, English common law points one way, while some legislative history, the 1866 civil rights act, and the 1924 indian citizenship act point the other way.

padjo•11m ago
The crazy thing here is that 4 supposedly conservative Supreme Court justices wanted to overturn over a century of precedent on how the constitution was interpreted.
mritterhoff•39m ago
I suspect OP mean declining fertility rate. USA population is still increasing, but is slowing down, and will sharply drop if the fertility rate remains below replacement of ~2 children per woman.
sheept•29m ago
I believe OP is referring to how immigration is the only known working solution to a decreasing population.

The US fertility rate is already 1.6 births per woman[0], and the population is only not decreasing because it still receives far more immigration than, say, Japan or South Korea.

[0]: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr038.pdf

ventana•13m ago
This is not specific to the US. The US is on 147th position [1], right near a lot of European countries, and I don't think there are easy way to rollback the demographic transition.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_fer...

aetherson•38m ago
The US's population is not declining. However, without immigration, our population growth would be very close to zero, and a yet lower rate of natural increase is locked in over the next couple of decades (more old people who will die than children).

And, I mean, it's obviously hard to predict beyond that, but it doesn't seem like anyone has any real clear answer to the trend of steadily decreasing TFR right now.

ihsw•44m ago
The birth rate correlates inversely with female earnings growth and correspondingly with male earnings growth; or, more to the point, declining birth rates correlates with the advancement of feminism (including birth rates approaching and then reaching zero.)

This is an observation and not a judgement. Take what you will with this information.

kbelder•38m ago
This is true, although I think it correlates more strongly with female participation in the workforce than earnings directly. And it's not a criticism of feminism, just a consequence that we should be aware of.
graemep•32m ago
Yes, because of the outdated assumption that women take virtually all responsibility for childcare, which is damaging not just to women, but to men and children too, combined with the it becoming more difficult for families to manage on a single income.

It is not just an American problem. It is slowly changing, at least here in the UK: I see a lot more dads taking kids around these days. I have still found people were surprised that my daughter lived with me rather than her mother after divorce though.

Windchaser•32m ago
It makes sense to me. When women have more choices, they tend to put off having kids or they raise their standards - for their economic situation before kids, for partners, etc.

I think this is good; insofar as women have children, it should be because they want to, not because they're pushed into it.

I'll say - it also wouldn't kill us to have slightly fewer people on the planet. We're already taxing much of our systems/ecosystems past their breaking points. Smarter people than me, entire groups of scientists, are saying that what we're doing now is badly unsustainable and we're heading for trouble.

bryanlarsen•8m ago
Slightly fewer is good. A rate of around 1.8 kids per woman seems slow but it's an exponential so it's still quite significant.

Parts of the world have reached 1.0 kids per woman, which is a halving of the population per generation, which will put a massive strain on our resources

toomuchtodo•28m ago
A material component of reduction in the US fertility rate has been avoided teen (15-19 cohort) pregnancies. ~40% of pregnancies both in the US and internationally, annually, are unintended (per the Guttmacher Institute and the UN, respectively).

Teen birth rates hit another historical low in 2025, CDC says - https://www.npr.org/2026/04/09/nx-s1-5777587/teen-birth-rate... - April 9th, 2026

raverbashing•44m ago
> If only because this would open up people born here to having their citizenship retroactively revoked.

No, that's not how laws work

Applying laws retroactively is much less common than a "simple" rule change

Octoth0rpe•40m ago
That's not how we have traditionally thought citizenship works, but that is exactly what the Trump administration would've gone for next if the supreme court had ruled in their favor in this instance, thereby setting up the _next_ supreme court case.
aetherson•38m ago
That was very much on the table, though not locked in.
mayneack•37m ago
Either laws work the way they're written and 4 members of the court disagree or they work the way the Supreme Court says they work and a worse ruling could threaten those citizens.
arjie•40m ago
I can believe that there is a lot of variance in maternal care and obstetrics in the US, but my wife and I had a pretty good experience. Documented here in what detail I could muster in those days: https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Pregnancy
ventana•31m ago
The U.S. Constitution is very far from being clear. The whole purpose of the Supreme Court is to explain the meaning of what is written in the Constitution; there are 9 justices in the court and they often disagree on that.

Just look at the second amendment:

  A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
  the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The "well regulated militia" phrase caused at least two very different opinions: United States v. Miller [1] in 1939 and District of Columbia v. Heller [2] in 2008, with very different results.

Just as the second amendment has this "militia" phrase that provokes arguments, the fourteenth amendment starts with

  All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the
  jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State
  wherein they reside.
and the phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is vague enough to trigger discussions about whether it applies to illegal immigrants or not.

Natural language is just bad in expressing rules.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Miller#Decisi...

[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller...

mothballed•25m ago
This is why American Samoans aren't citizens. They aren't subject to the full jurisdiction of the USA even though they are born in the United States.

Yet you rarely find anyone giving a shit about the American Samoans, you never hear about it.

fmobus•13m ago
The jurisdiction clause is there because of diplomats. It's a common thing in other Jus Solis countries, for good reason.
ventana•9m ago
And so we have the whole bench of 9 people guessing and discussing the intention of the lawmakers. Did they indeed mean diplomats when they wrote "subject of the jurisdiction thereof"? If a Martian lands on the US soil and gives birth, will the offspring immediately be "subject of the jurisdiction thereof"? What was the common meaning of the word "jurisdiction" in 1868? This kind of stuff.
rayiner•17m ago
> The constitution is pretty clear.

It’s really not, as the opinion in this case shows: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/25pdf/25-365_4hdj.pdf

The problem is that there’s accepted exceptions to birthright citizenship that aren’t apparent from the wording of the constitution. For example, everyone agrees children of ambassadors are not citizens at birth. Where does that exception come from? It doesn’t say anything about diplomats in the 14th amendment. It seems to come from the requirement that children be “subject to the jurisdiction” of the US at birth. But what does that mean? Jurisdiction is a broad concept that means different things in different contexts.

Windchaser•3m ago
I mean, aren't diplomats immune to US laws? Literal "diplomatic immunity".

It makes sense to me to say that they do not fall under US laws and US jurisdiction, and their children likewise.

Yes, and they can do that if they wanted to. The Supreme Court has the power to interpret the Constitution.
voakbasda•38m ago
In the past decade, the Constitution hasn’t slowed down the courts from creatively interpreting its various clauses. Their decisions have effectively amended many of those fundamental (and arguably inalienable) rights. Repeatedly.
arpinum•35m ago
> All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof ...

It's the second part that is in dispute and is not clear from the constitution's text what exactly it means and who it excludes. And yes, it has always excluded some people born within the borders, it is not a meaningless statement.

Windchaser•28m ago
Well, no, but almost everyone inside US borders is subject to US laws. The exceptions are rare: people in foreign embassies (which is "foreign soil"), invading armies, and indigenous tribes on tribal land.
rayiner•56s ago
[delayed]
wang_li•31m ago
This trivial reading of the constitution doesn't align with the reality. Two simple exceptions and a third not so simple are children of diplomats, children of invading armies, and native americans, who required an act of congress to give citizenship at birth.
swrobel•44m ago
6-3 with Thomas, Alito & Gorsuch dissenting
ailun•39m ago
Kavanaugh agrees with their reading of the 14th Amendment, though.
Windchaser•39m ago
Kavanaugh ruled that Trump's EO wasn't unconstitutional, just contrary to federal law, and Congress could change the law there if they wanted. So, this makes it only 5-4 upholding the 14th amendment.

Which is gods-damned crazy. We are that close to overturning major civil rights.

collinmcnulty•39m ago
5-4 on the Constitution. Kavanaugh's concurrence is that birthright citizenship is controlled by a law that Congress could change.
qalmakka•37m ago
This is kind of crazy. The text of the amendment is as literal as it gets. If this had failed it would have basically meant emptying Congress of all of its powers, because now the executive can just pick whatever interpretation they deem fit to their goals and run with it.

The rule of courts of law is to interpret the law, not to pick new creative meanings out of them. That's the role of the legislative power - otherwise what's stopping a court to reinterpret the meaning of any word in any legal text and allow the executive to rule by decree

arpinum•34m ago
"subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is not a clear statement.
qalmakka•27m ago
It has been clear to every single human being reading it for hundreds of years. It was never up to debate until some person of this administration decided to go and question the meaning of "jurisdiction thereof". Also saying that a foreign-born person isn't subject to the jurisdiction of the country they find themselves in opens a massive can of worms - like, if the State doesn't have jurisdiction over foreign nationals, does it imply it's not legally allowed to arrest them for instance? Two can play the same game and find infinite loopholes even in the clearest of texts.

This goes beyond the value of citizenship by birth, which I'm neither in favour nor against (personally I think that just sanguinis is nonsensical, but so is to automatically give citizenship even to accidental passer-bys), it's all about whether the law still carries any "evident" meaning or whether it can be spun around depending on political necessity, which is bad

readthenotes1•27m ago
The supreme Court ruled that South Carolina could not secede from the Union because the Constitution was merely a continuation of the agreements under the articles of confederation even though all states had to withdraw from the confederation to get into the union.

After that bit of logic, nothing the supreme Court decides would surprise me

rayiner•11m ago
If it’s so easy, answer these questions without looking at the opinions:

1) What does it mean for someone to be “subject to the jurisdiction” of the U.S.? Why are children of ambassadors not subject to U.S. jurisdiction, while children of illegal immigrants are subject to U.S. jurisdiction?

2) What does the 1866 civil rights act, adopted two years before the 14th amendment, mean when it says: “That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens of the United States.” Does that exclude people who are foreign citizens at birth under the laws of their origin country?

3) Why did Congress need to confer citizenship on american indians in 1924 when the 14th amendment already made everyone born on US soil citizens in 1868?

•
40m ago
SCOTUS has not had anything remotely close to a plain text reading since the 1930s and probably longer. "Shall not be infringed" was changed to "if an infantry rifle was made after 1986 then magically it can be infringed" and (until about a week ago when it was overturned) "if you smoke a left-handed cigarette actually the second amendment doesn't exist." The 1st amendment protects freedom of speech but yet it's legal to ban appeals to "prurient interest" even though no such exemption is mentioned. "Interstate commerce" has been changed to mean basically "commerce" and interstate is now interpreted as if it was put there for funsies since everything can be construed as affecting something else in the universe even though the historical context makes clear that's not how the text was interpreted by the writers.

Every other amendment including the 1st, 2nd, etc even when explicitly spelled out the courts magically pull something out of their ass to "torture it." Yet the 14th amendment birthright citizenship, who's "history and tradition" was to right the wrongs of slavery, somehow has to be read absolutely in black and white.

Personally I am amenable to the plain text interpretation of the 14th, 1st, and 2nd, but lets not pretend that is the game SCOTUS or even most of government and society is playing. The constitution is referenced more as a religious document by all the above to mean whatever it is they say it means.

xhkkffbf•33m ago
I thought so too. Then I read the arguments about the passage of the amendment. The people passing clearly stated that, say, the children of ambassadors wouldn't be eligible. It was mainly aimed at clearing up the questions about the various Native Americans who may have considered themselves independent. It wasn't about opening the doors to anyone.
wang_li•26m ago
It was about slaves. Native Americans didn't get birthright citizenship until the Native American Citizenship Act of 1924.
Supermancho•45m ago
Note: There are ~30ish countries that provide citizenship to anyone born within their national borders (many with restrictions, for whatever that may mean). Largely, this covers a spotting of countries across the globe, but is almost universally true within the Americas.
consensus1•43m ago
And how many of those countries have an illegal immigration problem? I bet that most of them would quickly remove that loophole if people actually started to exploit it.
ryandrake•37m ago
Root cause it. The USA does not have an illegal immigration problem. It has a "huge, slow immigration bureaucracy" problem that makes the legal path so slow and difficult that people are incentivized to gamble on illegal paths.
consensus1•30m ago
Having a difficult and selective immigration process that rejects the vast majority of applicants is not a problem. It is exactly how an immigration system should work. We want the best.
Windchaser•16m ago
I'm personally happy to welcome anyone who's willing to come, work hard, pay taxes, and support democratic ideals. This is how most of our ancestors got here, and it seems fair to me that we continue to extend that offer to other would-be immigrants.

Worth noting that the economic literature also shows that this is firmly in our best interests, and immigrants and their children more than pay their way in future taxes and future entrepreneurship.

The US didn't even have a particularly selective immigration process for the first century. It was only after a big influx of Chinese immigrants (and a corresponding backlash) that we enacted our first immigration controls, limiting how many immigrants could come from a given country each year. The aptly-named "Chinese Exclusion Act" of 1882.

rilindo•36m ago
Most countries with a standard of living that even barely better than their neighbors have an immigration problem. There is a whole continent call Europe that is fighting off migrates and last I checked, birthright citizenship is not a thing there.
Xeamek•36m ago
People who abuse birthright citizenships are, by definitions, not illegal immigrants. But even if you count all of them as 'unwanted' immigrants - how many % of total immigration to the US is result of those birthright laws?
consensus1•33m ago
You are wrong about that. If an illegal crosses while pregnant, gets detained, and then gives birth the day after while in detention, that baby is 100% a US citizen.
Xeamek•30m ago
if baby is 100% US citizen then how is that an 'illegal immigrant'? Again, you may call them 'unwanted', and you have right to such opinion. But law is what is written, if they got citizenship then they aren't illegal
mothballed•32m ago
Think two steps ahead, people aren't born right out of the sky. It encourages people to illegally enter for their citizenship baby and the parents remain illegal until ~21 years later when they can have the kid sponsor them. In the meantime the parents get free WIC even if they're illegal.
fckgw•34m ago
A right enshrined in the Constitution is not a "loophole".
graemep•23m ago
As far as I can see it is almost entirely countries in the Americas plus Pakistan that have real birthright citizenship. Everywhere else has some restriction such as stateless parents, or multiple generations born in the country, or a minimum period of residence or similar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
nonethewiser•45m ago
Its a terrible idea to give citizenship to the chidlren of birth tourist. It makes no sense that someone defrauds the US government to get their child citizenship then you do nothing about it.
kemayo•41m ago
Is it "defrauding" if someone's just following the rules, though? And, at that, is it worth building your citizenship rules around something incredibly rare? (Estimates seem to think it's something like 15k babies a year.)
returningfory2•44m ago
Given the US is one of the most (the most?) successful countries in recent human history, shouldn't it be the other way around? Shouldn't the 95% be looking at the US and seeing what to copy?
qalmakka•40m ago
To be fair a lot of it had also to do with the sheer immense amount of vast, mostly unused ,fertile land available in north America. I sincerely doubt the American experiment would have worked this well if they had rowdy neighbours and infighting due to resource constraints. For almost 200 years the solution to most things in the USA was to get a chunk of either their people or immigrant to move to the neck of the woods to find fortune
Windchaser•25m ago
Not getting wrecked in major land wars during the 1800s and 1900s also helped
returningfory2•17m ago
But the success hasn't ended since the unused land became taken; in fact, the US became a superpower after the westward expansion era. My point is that looking at conditions today, the US still continues to succeed (by some definition of success) and other countries should try to emulate the aspects of the country that leads to that success. IMO one of the big factors is how well immigrants assimilate in the country, and birthright citizenship is a part of that.

I do agree with you that US success in the 19th century was due to many factors that are not relevant today.

greggoB•36m ago
Define successful?

(You'll probably want to avoid metrics like happiness indices and life expectancy though)

AnimalMuppet•24m ago
At a minimum, it's been a place that people wanted to come to, more than they wanted to come to anywhere else in the world. That's successful as measured by people.

(Or at least, people wanted to come until the last couple of years...)

returningfory2•13m ago
Fair point. Mainly I agree with the sibling comment: the revealed preference of many people around the world, including many people from the richest countries in Europe, is to move the United States and then settle permanently. I think that means a lot.

Obviously you can also say that the US is geopolitically successful because of its global military and diplomatic dominance, but I account zero value to this.

voakbasda•43m ago
A belief held by the majority does not make it better simply for that fact. Not that long ago, the majority view was that slavery was a great thing, so I think you should see that argument falls fairly flat.

Offering birthright citizenship makes the US better than 95% of the other countries. Not worse.

jobs_throwaway•41m ago
Why should I give a shit what 95% of other countries do? 99% of other countries are worse in every way that matters
glitchc•40m ago
The US has always been a country of immigrants; the Constitution recognizes and enshrines this fact. Amending this rule requires a federal supermajority (66% in House and Senate) or a state majority (66% of state legislatures vote in favor of said amendment). Given how difficult it is to find consensus on even the most banal issue, it's unclear whether there would be sufficient support to ever amend.
kdheiwns•39m ago
Constitutional amendments are generally made with the purpose of granting rights to the people, not taking them away. The US once made the mistake of making an amendment to take away rights (banning alcohol), but then another amendment restored the right to get drunk.
arjie•39m ago
I, for one, believe in American exceptionalism. This country is different in many ways and its success is due to that difference. I don't think that the US should actively aim to "revert to the mean".
Ar-Curunir•39m ago
The US is unlike most other countries in that it is built on the recent genocide of the native population, with ~most of the current population being immigrants in the last 400 years.

Under what moral rules do genocidaires get citizenship but not, say, refugees?

greggoB•38m ago
As a non-US citizen, birthright citizenship has always struck me as strangely unique to America - in my mind it comes from a time when it was actively trying to populate the continent (something not a lot of countries have wanted to do, I guess).

Roll forward a few hundred years and the context has changed, so it seems reasonable that the law should too? But I guess it shouldn't be surprising that this is no bueno for SCOTUS, which has an infinite hard-on for Originalism [0] - I certainly can't imagine the conservative justices are ruling based on humanitarian grounds.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Originalism

TimorousBestie•36m ago
Birthright citizenship is not unique to the United States, it’s common to certain kinds of former colonies.
graemep•22m ago
Most of the Americas for just that reason - and because the countries immigrants came from did not want their kids to have citizen ship and the right to come back.
Windchaser•14m ago
I mean, it tracks with "no taxation without representation". Getting rid of birthright citizenship has the chance to create a separate *multi-generational* class of people that aren't given the same rights in society.
eesmith•2m ago
Most countries in North and South America have unconditional birthright citizenship for persons born in the country.

I take it you are not British? The British Empire had birthright citizenship, and up until 1948 (except for Ireland) citizens of all Commonwealth countries were simply British subjects.

Afterward it was possible to be, for example, a Canadian citizen, but it was still the case that "Prior to the [the British Nationality Act 1981] coming into force, any person born in the United Kingdom or a colony (with limited exceptions such as children of diplomats and enemy aliens) was entitled to [Citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies] status" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Nationality_Act_1981

jfengel•37m ago
We don't really amend the Constitution every ten years. We got 10 all at once, immediately after the Constitution was written. They were amendments only because there was debate about whether including them would deprive people of even more rights by omission.

Of the remaining ones, two cancel each other out, and several others (including the most recent) are trivial. The Constitution has not been meaningfully amended in half a century, and it seems wildly unlikely that it ever can be.

neuronexmachina•28m ago
> Also ~95% of countries don't have unconditional birthright citizenship

The map of which countries have jus soli is pretty interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

>Jus soli is the predominant rule in the Americas; explanations for this geographical phenomenon include the establishment of lenient laws by past European colonial powers to entice immigrants from the Old World and displace native populations in the New World, along with the emergence of successful wars of independence movements that widened the definition and granting of citizenship, as a prerequisite to the abolishment of slavery since the 19th century.[5]

>There are 35 countries that provide citizenship unconditionally to anyone born within their national borders.

>

5upplied_demand•27m ago
> Also ~95% of countries don't have unconditional birthright citizenship. It creates perverse incentives.

I typically find that the people using this logic don't seem to apply it to laws like universal healthcare, parental leave, or paid-time off. The lack of those benefits creates perverse incentives to already living citizens, not hypothetical future citizens. Why not focus on them?

toast0•18m ago
Chinese billionaires are bound to do weird shit. I don't think we should amend our constitution to try to prevent that.

If the problem is 'birth tourism' and subsequent immigration visas for relatives of the US national child, changing the immigration policies seems like a better fix. Something like requiring a sponsoring citizen to reside in the US for a period before sponsorship. A citizen sponsoring a visa for a parent already has to be 21.

I'm not sure I can be that upset by people who want to immigrate, so they put a plan in motion that takes 21+ years to reach fruition. Although that does jump the line if you were eligible for F3 or F4 and your country of origin is Mexico... the priority date on those is currently 2001. [1]

I want more people in the US who can do long term planning, not less. :p

[1] https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...

consensus1•41m ago
Some woman who is 8 months pregnant comes to the US on a tourist visa and gives birth, then goes home with the baby. And then somehow that kid gets automatic US citizenship. And it applies even if the mother is not even legally allowed in the country. And you think that is not insane?
fckgw•32m ago
I don't think it's a "problem" that justifies taking the rights away from millions of Americans, no.
root_axis•30m ago
An 8 months pregnant woman would typically be denied entry during immigration processing. It doesn't seem like a big deal.
fmobus•9m ago
And that's assuming they can even board their flight. Airlines don't really like carrying extremely pregnant people because it's very risky.
Windchaser•7m ago
> And you think that is not insane?

I think there would be a real problem with creating a class of people who live here their entire lives and aren't citizens. And then their children also live here and aren't citizens, and their grandchildren, etc.

It's not that birthright citizenship is ideal, but it prevents some other, bigger problems.

sketchysandwich•45m ago
Truly insane that this is one of the most important founding aspects of the country. Without which most, if not all, the population wouldn't legally be allowed to live here. But yet, you don't understand that.
runamok•38m ago
Most Americans conveniently forget the whole "nation of immigrants" thing once they are a few generations removed from the situation. Ladder kickers the lot of them.
CarVac•44m ago
We can collect income tax from children of tourists who happen to be born in the US on vacation? Great!
nonethewiser•42m ago
Agreed, especially when the “vacation” is actually birth tourism and the mother lied at the border.
tancop•23m ago
the fact that birth tourism is a thing means the demand for us citizenship is way higher than supply, to the point people are willing to put their whole life savings and break the law just to have a shot at getting it through a complicated family route.

its easy to fix by making legal immigration cheap and reliable. its also great for the economy, a lot of undocumented immigrants work illegally dont pay taxes because they cant work normal jobs without getting deported.

legalizing their stay means more tax revenue, less crime and labor violations, lower costs for business and i would also say its kind of morally wrong for a rich country to buy cheap stuff made by workers in mexico or china and give none of the profits back. closed borders are glboal injustice.

paxys•41m ago
It wasn't up to the Supreme Court to correct. It is very plainly written in the constitution. Sure you can disagree, but it is up to elected representatives in Congress to amend, not Trump or the Supreme Court.
Ar-Curunir•35m ago
The number of times this happens in a year is negligible. It’s also quite difficult to do it safely: airlines won’t allow you to fly when heavily pregnant, and emergency deliveries are incredibly expensive due to the American healthcare system.

So you are suggesting abrogating rights based on an event that occurs with minuscule probability. Get a grip.

TimorousBestie•30m ago
I’m curious why you believe an amendment will help your situation.

This case (placed alongside many others in recent memory) demonstrates that no matter how clear and unequivocal a legal text you write, the textualists can find a way to overturn it.

So what specific legal text for this amendment of yours do you believe is immune from that degree of sophistry?

fckgw•4m ago
It's not a "policy" it's a constitutional right.