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LAPD lets contract with surveillance giant Flock expire

https://techcrunch.com/2026/07/13/lapd-lets-contract-with-surveillance-giant-flock-expire-citing-serious-concerns-over-civil-liberties-and-privacy/
76•forks•1h ago

Comments

forks•1h ago
https://archive.is/zUou2
superkuh•38m ago
This is good. But unfortunately it doesn't mean the Flock cameras will be removed because the city doesn't own them. Flock does. And Flock will likely want to keep them there. In other cities when the contract is canceled or let expire Flock prevented those cities from removing the cameras. Some had to resort to covering them with trash bags because they could not legally remove them. This happened in Dayton, Ohio and many other cities. https://www.cnet.com/news/privacy/cities-covering-flock-surv...

> "Some locals have taken matters into their own hands by dismantling Flock cameras and covering them with trash bags"

This techcrunch article incorrectly characterizes this need and required behavior as something done by random citizens. But it is actually the cities themselves having to resort to it, totally officially and legally, because of Flock behaving badly.

srameshc•33m ago
Thanks !! It is so easy to assume that ending contract means turning off the cameras. Hopefully ciities can fight back harder for them to remove them, specially when people don't want that surveillance.
bombcar•26m ago
It could also mean "we get the cameras for free now ..."
bdavbdav•32m ago
Presumably the license to surveil the city is extended to flock by the city? Presumably they should be able to compel them to disable them, and provide proof of this (whether they’re trusted or not…)
kortilla•22m ago
I think the problem is that people are allowed to set up cameras of public spaces without requiring any “license to surveil”.
cucumber3732842•18m ago
I assure you that if I slapped a camera on city infrastructure they would absolutely find some license or permission that I don't have and threaten me with a million+ dollar fine over it.
nemomarx•17m ago
are they on land flock owns though? I don't think I could go put up a camera on city infrastructure like traffic lights without their permission. does flock buy a lot of little permissions to install and power their cameras or something?
someperson•25m ago
Are there any privacy-first security camera provider where it's the city that manages data access and uses it purely for local law enforcement purposes?
SoftTalker•24m ago
Why would you trust the city more than Flock. One of the common claimed abuses of Flock data is city cops using it to stalk exes and crushes.

The problem with Flock is not who owns the data, it's the potential for abuse.

cucumber3732842•19m ago
Because there's a more robust legal framework for curtailing the inevitable abuse when the government does it than when it's done via the "oops our contractor who's a private company" slight of hand.

Same basic reason I'd rather have the cops after me than have the environmental/zoning/whatever civil enforcement jerks after me.

moate•17m ago
Said by someone who's clearly never had cops after them...
nemomarx•18m ago
flock shares the data with other cities and jurisdictions a little more easily, and also flock workers can see your videos. That's some amount of extra abuse potential?
moate•17m ago
The problem with Flock is its continued existence as part of the surveillance state. Like guns or bombs, these are things with one intent, and that intent is always ALWAYS bad as the resource is inevitably concentrated in the hands of a few to control the many.
buzer•27m ago
Aren't the cameras on city's land or did city lease the land to Flock? If they are on city's land couldn't city require that Flock removes their stuff from city's property or city will do it on Flock's expense?
MengerSponge•13m ago
I've seen videos of flock cameras installed improperly (missing a breakaway device) right next to roads. The city must be able to remove unsafe devices!

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/local-rural/maintenance-sign...

bko•10m ago
I don't know, I'd prefer cops have access to technology that helps them apprehend criminals and enforce the law. Better audits and accountability are the solution, not removing technology.
sjsdaiuasgdia•17m ago
Also, there's plenty of past incidents of cops abusing their access to state and federal databases for the same kinds of purposes.

The profession attracts individuals who are willing to abuse power for their own purposes. That's not to say that every cop is in the job to abuse power, but many are, and we have to build our law enforcement structures in a way that directly acknowledges and addresses this fact.

moate•16m ago
As the saying goes: A few bad apples spoil the bunch. It's a rotten profession.
Zigurd•16m ago
Have you seen Flock's CEO?
someperson•15m ago
A better designed system could be driven by warrants issued by courts, without (or at least minimal) access to individual officers.

It requires better access controls.

Even invasive ideas like automated license plate scanning city-wide can have its data only accessible to an API to eg, track a stolen car across the city to avoid a dangerous high-speed chase in populated areas.

I think to throw the baby out with the bathwater around networked security cameras is failure around designing robust and secure APIs and systems (including audit trails).

bko•11m ago
I think Flock is probably the worst solution besides all the rest. They seem to be the most auditable and accountable. The fact that anyone even knows the service and founder is a testament to accountability.
JumpCrisscross•10m ago
> Why would you trust the city more than Flock

Nationally, I trust a system where the data are split up between siloes more than a single, privately-owned database.

throwaway894345•4m ago
Agreed, and more than that, those siloes are governed by democratic processes. Of course, democracy doesn't preclude abuse but it's a lot better than private governance.
dvno42•20m ago
I'd say most are hosted first, Milestone, Genetec, Avigilon, etc. They all sell software to host feeds from your own standardized cams (Axis, Hanwah, Samsung, etc) via h.264/mpeg. The cloud hosted CCTV at scale is relatively recent.

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