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Why I Am Not Going to Buy a Computer

https://karlvmuller.com/posts/why-i-am-not-going-to-buy-a-computer/
45•KarlVM12•44m ago

Comments

datakan•20m ago
The uncanny valley is happening with enterprise work. My boss is in love with Copilot writing documentation that we've sorely needed for many years. He and I can bang out tons of it in minutes that would have taken months before. We do this and then no one reads it.

I've asked people about it and they seem disillusioned. It wasn't written by a human so they see no human value in it. They view it as AI writing documentation for another AI to summarize to them and then another AI to reply or comment. So they don't care or are actively repulsed by it.

I think AI has a long uphill battle in winning over the average Joe.

embedding-shape•18m ago
> no one reads it. [... ] they seem disillusioned

Regardless of reasons they tell you, if no one reads your documentation, then it isn't good enough. Good documentation gets read, as long as it is good. It sounds to me like you're disillusioned, if you're not responding to the feedback, even if you sometimes have to look through the reasons people tell you on the surface.

saulpw•5m ago
There are many reasons people might not read your documentation, and "it isn't good enough" is only one of them. To wit:

   - they don't know about it
   - they can't find it when they need it
   - they just don't read documentation (quite common)
   - they've been burned by stale docs in the past
and I'm sure other reasons besides.

And while you're right, that sometimes/usually/always the documentation isn't good enough, it's a fallacy to think that the person who has the information needed, has the skill to write docs that are good enough for people to read. And if they have the skill, they don't have the time to apply it sufficiently.

Let's face it: good docs aren't valued. Not by the organization structurally, and not by the individuals within the organization. You may say that you value it, but I bet that if someone offered to document whatever code or process to your 'good enough' level, and it would take a month to do, as a manager you would tell them to take less time (i.e. create bad documentation) and get to something more important.

groestl•17m ago
> It wasn't written by a human so they see no human value in it.

Which is true, in a way, the data put down as documentation can now be calculated in seconds, and documentation is just a cache.

ignorantguy•17m ago
I am seeing the same thing. People are even sending slack messages using cursor or claudecode. You post a PR or ask a question, I get a long response that was not written by a human. Uncanny valley it is.
delfinom•17m ago
To be fair, AI writing is often unhuman. The biggest problem its more verbose than human writing. It adds additional not needed mental load in processing text.

Even in code documentation, I just need a function block that says "DO NOT PASS A VALUE OF 2", with maybe a deeper comment that says "yea the math breaks here", instead of a 5 page discourse on why you should not pass a value of 2.

datakan•10m ago
You make a good point but it's also subjective. The documentation we need is all technical in nature so we aren't looking for Shakespeare or Tolkien here. We just need it to be accurate and usable, which it is.
nemomarx•7m ago
Part of being quickly usable might be the brevity or utilitarian style. Maybe it looks intimidatingly long?
bcrosby95•7m ago
The AI seems to put it's internal reasoning into comments. I have to keep telling it to knock it the fuck off.
cogman10•15m ago
> He and I can bang out tons of it in minutes that would have taken months before

Here's the problem I have. No doubt an LLM made it faster to write those docs, but did you fully spot check it for accuracy?

A lot of people aren't which I think is why the average joe hates it. These docs can still have AI generated mistakes which are easily glossed over by a regular human.

datakan•13m ago
> Here's the problem I have. No doubt an LLM made it faster to write those docs, but did you fully spot check it for accuracy?

Yes. That was just the writing portion, there is a whole team that works on publishing and proof reading and there are acceptance levels all the way up to the CISO where people validate they read it and approved of the contents. Even with that, no one cares about it.

cogman10•7m ago
Yeah, IDK what to tell you then. Sometimes docs just go unread. There's a reason why "RTFM" is a meme.

It might be that they are wordy. It might be that your readers are lazy. It also might just be they don't realize the effort has been put in to make sure the docs are of high quality.

fluoridation•5m ago
I assume by "proof-reading" you don't mean just checking that the text doesn't contain spelling mistakes or is incoherent, but including that the content is actually correct. If your people actually invest that much into documentation, what the point of the LLM? Isn't the actual writing part like 10% of the total effort expended, in terms of man-hours?
glaslong•
giantg2•15m ago
Most people weren't reading documentation when it was written by humans. The low value status of documentation is well supported by the fact your workplace put it off instead of prioritizing it.
datakan•12m ago
You're not wrong, but we've had a huge shake up internally and all of the people that used to complain about not having it are now in a position to create it and approve it. They just don't care anymore because now its just AI.
yomismoaqui•14m ago
If that documentation serves another human-operated querying AI it already provides value as a cached work that prevents another AI from re-extracting that knowledge from the code (burning time & tokens in the process).

Another question is keeping those docs up to date...

icedchai•12m ago
AI documentation is also often incredibly verbose. It makes it difficult to see the forest through the trees. I am often repulsed by the README.md in many "AI generated" projects.
mchaver•12m ago
> He and I can bang out tons of it in minutes that would have taken months before. We do this and then no one reads it.

Honest question, did you guys read it yourselves before asking the rest of the team to read it?

munchbunny•11m ago
> We do this and then no one reads it.

My experience with AI-written documentation is that, as a category, it contains just enough technical errors that more often than not I end up spending time running down confidently stated errors the old fashioned way: cross-referencing API documentation, reading code, etc. At that point you inevitably end up trying to get in touch with a human from the other team.

In other words, it's not because I don't know it's there, or I don't want to read it, it's because my priors tell me it's going to waste my time. What I end up doing is searching, finding the docs, and reading until I start to get the feeling of hallucinated factual errors.

I'm sure there's AI-written documentation in there where the authors really did a good job reviewing it, and I just didn't notice. But I've also had engineers under me lose weeks of productivity at this point because of documentation confidently presented, insufficiently vetted, that turned out to be wrong.

khuey•11m ago
Unless you've checked it for accuracy why would I read your AI-generated documentation when I can ask my AI (which in a month or two will be a newer, better model than what you used to generate that documentation) to read the code and summarize it for me?

If you did check it for accuracy then I don't understand how you compressed months of work into minutes.

dfxm12•10m ago
In the context of documentation, it's not about disillusionment. It doesn't matter if you write it, an AI writes it, if there's a searchable wiki, a chat bot front end etc., your colleagues will track you down and ask you about it personally. They don't want documentation. They want to make their problem into your problem.
changs•10m ago
If the documentation is generated by AI, often it's better to just share the prompts used, instead of the documentation.

We do this to make sure people know what to ask for. The answer can be generated when they need it and it will be then based on the current state of things.

bcrosby95•8m ago
If someone writes content with AI, I don't exactly see a problem with people using AI to synthesize the content. It's a good default.
yoyohello13•8m ago
AI or not, most people never cared about documentation. I have always had to fight tooth and nail to get people to write shit down, and that hasn't changed with AI.

In 2021 I wrote a ton of docs for outlining our deployment and various how-tos, basically just got a "cool thanks bro" for my time. People never cared, I think AI is just a convenient modern excuse.

phoghed•5m ago
Work for a big enough enterprise and you’ll spend tons of time making reams of documentation that nobody ever reads and only exists to check a box. Stick around long enough and maybe a 3rd party auditor will read some of it.
michaelchisari•7m ago
"If You are Asking for Human Attention, Demonstrate Human Effort"

https://tombedor.dev/human-attention-and-human-effort/

toast0•4m ago
> We do this and then no one reads it.

A) this is what happens with documentation, in general.

B) as an experienced reader of documentation, I can often tell when the documentation is likely to be accurate. It's not worth reading documentation that's inaccurate. AI written things tend to be inaccurate and not worth reading.

You should be happy that your people know to ignore the work you and the boss half assed.

lardosaurusrex•4m ago
my issue is that people insist their written ai work -- including documentation -- is correct only for myself and many others to repeatedly discover this isn't the case.

there's also the issue that people keep switching models when their quota is used up and so at first it seems to all be in order but upon digging in suddenly it hugely diverges in tone/usefulness if it doesn't just collapse in on itself outright; making diving into documentation even more of a hassle than it was before.

even worse is that when they bring back in the previous model upon quota reset it just consumes the information from the crappier/cheaper one and errors start compounding and you want to report it and they're like "sorry we closed our public issue tracker yoy have to join our discord server" and then you have to grab the attention of extremely unwilling developers who repeatedly insist there isn't a problem until you start copy-pasting their quite frankly shit documentation en-masse.

then its "oh that's a typo; the command is correct 25 pages/sections ago so why would you believe it in this section when it's obvious that its wrong here?" like it's your fault they can't keep their goddang slop together and parse through the glaring errors.

a manual should be able to be pulled off a bookshelf (or opened if digital) and allow you to flip to the relevant page so that you can refer to it as a reference and these jerks are hellbent on blaming users for when their jank documentation looks clearly hallucinated by 3 seperate LLMs.

it is beyond frustratung.

ge96•12m ago
I like buying old flagships since I couldn't afford them like 5-10 years ago.

Still a few on my list would be neat to try like Specter 360, eventually I want one of the current newest XPS-13s

I recently got a Pixelbook for $80 running Ubuntu on that, great little device as far as thinness

Also like buying/trying out weird computers or old, like the ASUS Eee PCs or Librettos

bLorax•8m ago
did you even read the blog post my guy
ge96•6m ago
Skimmed "write by hand or typewriter" yeah I'm not like that, I am rote based though so have to type into a computer to remember notes

Who wants to f around with a typewriter anyway I guess this guy in particular does

alain94040•10m ago
Neither the original 1987 story nor the blog post make any sense to me. I feel the authors are focused on a niche aspect: exchanging deep human thoughts with other humans. For that use case, sure, don’t use a computer, don’t use AI.

But there’s nothing wrong with a car made by a robot factory. The car is useful, regardless of how it was made. AI lets some people create new products, those may be useful.

freediddy•9m ago
> AI is probabilistic and any probabilistic system can inherently never be perfect as it also still makes numerous mistakes. Work still needs to be reviewed by humans.

I don't know why people keep saying this. I don't believe code needs to be reviewed by humans. Are humans infallible? I think 80%+ of code is basically human slop. Do we review the assembly language that is generated by compilers?

I think given where AI-generated code is, and where it's going, all we need to do is test the outputs, basically turning us into QA. As someone who loves to code, yes I find it distasteful, but we don't get paid for our code, we get paid for our programs. I prefer being paid.

If you want to write beautiful code, you can do it as a side hustle at home, but I think very quickly, this is what our industry is turning into. In January, someone told me that an expert told him that software engineering would be dead in 3 months, and I scoffed at the time, but now I think it's pretty accurate. It definitely won't survive this year.

JohnFen•5m ago
> Do we review the assembly language that is generated by compilers?

Apples and oranges

brador•4m ago
Why must everything be art?
4m ago
In general people always seem to want documentation, so they can pull it up exactly when they need it, but will do anything to avoid actually having to read it until that singular moment.

The number of meetings where I can answer all the other attendees' questions because I'm the only one who even skimmed the presenter's docs, I swear.....

jasonlotito•7m ago
> Here's the problem I have. No doubt an LLM made it faster to write those docs, but did you fully spot check it for accuracy?

Hi. I write lots of documentation already. I enjoy the taste of clean, fresh, accurate documentation.

Spot-check it for accuracy? I review it. The same way I would review other documentation in the past. The difference? Fewer errors and issues, and when I do find them, it's far easier to get things sorted out.

> A lot of people aren't

Correct. A lot of people aren't reviewing. Not even AI, just reviewing in general. And even when they review, they are only looking, not testing.

The difference is that before, it was a human mistake. Now it's an AI mistake, and people HATE AI mistakes. Even if the number of AI mistakes is fewer than the human mistakes.

I don't want to pretend that documentation is easy, and well-made human documentation is still far better than the best AI documentation for the most part. But... it depends on the audience and purpose. Most importantly, AI documentation is good enough for most cases, and well-made human documentation is far rarer.

gorjusborg•5m ago
Ignoring how a thing was created, is it useful to me (or anyone)?

The fascination with LLM coding seems rooted in the new ability to create something with very little effort. Unfortunately, some people do not see the trade comes at the moment you have to evaluate the output for fitness or quality.

It turns out that you often need to understand the thing pretty well in order to be qualified to determine the quality of the output. That tends to dilute time gains, unless you leave off the evaluation step.

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