Number cannot always go up. We are at the top of the carbon pulse. Financialization has taken us far from the material baseline of the rock we are flying through space on. Debt will only get us so far.
For this and many other reasons, why would you believe a house "as an investment" is a reasonable thing to keep hoping for, especially 30 years from now? If you have even a reasonably stable rental, it's less risk exposure if you can save some money that isn't tied up in a down payment.
Physics and reality do not. Once the number gets big enough it loses all practical value. Humans are not really built to reason about very large numbers. At some point you reach Zimbabwean inflation and your currency loses all value because everyone is paid in the trillions. Then you reset your currency back to lower numbers because that's what humans and their systems can handle.
So, no, the number cannot always go up. There is a practical ceiling beyond which numbers lose meaning and value.
Heck, the dollar is already it. What used to cost a penny now costs ten dollars. We just think in dollars and forget about the pennies.
Apparently that is beyond the high and mighty Federal Reserve employees who wrote this speculation.
The housing market needs to be socialized.
Rent stabilization - caps on how much landlords are permitted to increase rent - are also not that widespread. Washington DC is unusual in having over half of its rental stock covered by rent stabilization, but even in NYC less than half of the rental stock has stabilized rents.
The promises of WFH have also not come to fruition. The dream of moving anywhere and retaining your email job are not the reality in 2026. Employers seem actively hostile to that idea or are reneging on promises or claims that that "is the future".
They all get TN visas then only hire other Canadians (just like Indians, Canadians do the exact same thing).
They are 1000% responsible for driving the costs up in San Francisco.
I lived in a 2 bedroom apartment in the 1990s for $200/month 3 miles from the city center. All my other expenses were less than another $200/month. The median house price was less than $80k. College graduate positions typically paid ~$30k but that was OK. This was pre-9/11 so all those old TV shows and movies you saw of people meeting people at the airport gate were very real. I've seen younger people think this was just a trope, like the 30 seconds the trace a call bit. No, that was real. Friends of a friend lived in Iowa and split a 4 bedroom house for $180/month. Not each, total.
For younger millenials and Gen-Z, I honestly wish you could've experienced this world, for no other reason than to see that things weren't always this way and don't have to be this way.
There's an old episode of the Cosby Show that had the father (Bill Cosby) teaching his son, Theo, about finances. It's funny watching it back now because it has the line "an apartment in Manhattan is going to cost you $400" and I remember thinking how expensive that sounded at the time.
The absolute worst thing that has happened is how hoarding housing has become a retirement plan. It's simply stealing from the next generation and it's absolutely strangling the economy. Society is fraying at the edges. For anyone interested, there's been academic work on this that falls under the label of "the housing theory of everything" eg [1].
But what I hate most is how cruel, selfish and stupid everybody seems to be getting, in part fuelled by increasing desperation to stay above the rising tide just a little bit longer. And the ultra-wealthy constantly throw gas on this fire and torch the planet for what? So they can have $200 billion instead of $100 billion? What good does that do you if there's nothing left? But what's crazy is that a third of the population will defend Jeff Bezos in this equation.
What you see in a lot of economic indicators (such as those posted here) can be read as people incradsingly see themselves as having no future. Continued consumer spending is not a sign of a healthy economy or optimism anymore. It's a sign of fatalism.
The entire thing is honestly deeply depressing.
[1]: https://worksinprogress.co/issue/the-housing-theory-of-every...
I can't even imagine renting when I'm retired and have less money.
Buying a house can be an investment, but it's also buying a place to live. Even if the home's value merely keeps pace with inflation over 30 years, you've converted a largely fixed housing payment into ownership rather than paying ever-increasing rent indefinitely.
If you purchased a rust bucket of a car, you own it and if it all goes south you still have a roof over your head.
I'm a strong proponent of both owning and renting, and each has tradeoffs vs. the other. I've moved between renting and home ownership a couple times, and I appreciate the customizability of ownership along with the very real financial advantages.
On the other side, I've also enjoyed "freedom" of renting, where I didn't have to spend any additional time, energy, or money on maintenance tasks. In my HCOL part of the country, I could also afford the rent to live "downtown" when owning anything remotely similar was out of the question.
Your "also a place to live" line is fantastically underrated. When the housing market was flat or declining, I'd always get annoyed when people said something like "I've owned this house for 5 years, but now it's worth $20k less than when I bought it!". That also means if they sold it right now at that $20k "loss" then they effectively paid $333/month plus upkeep to live somewhere for 5 years!
Key word being “if”, IMO. What happens in the longer term if or when many renters’ “saved” money is slowly becoming less and less, contrasted with a presumably fixed or at least stable/predictable mortgage?
The reduced risk simply may not be worth it anymore because it doesn’t save you anything in monetary terms, or even costs you more. What happens then? Does the trend reverse again?
Its only an investment if you are renting it out to someone else, otherwise you are just gambling.
You have evidence from the future?
Easily 30-50% of the money you pay in rent is immediately burned in tax/letting agent fees that don’t happen to a homeowner who “is their own landlord”. Additionally there’s no capital gains tax on one’s primary home.
Even if house prices stay flat it’s usually still better to own if rental yields in your area are higher than 5%.
Of course this doesn't work exactly and you can nitpick this, but I think people should at least look at housing assets as more than "is it going to go up?", and more about long-term risk reduction. (And, just to be clear, this doesn't mean that you should lever up beyond reason to buy a house.)
You have to decide what "enough" is, and that's variable depending on your expected standard of living, etc. I am personally currently lucky enough to be in a good rental situation, which colors my view.
Having a landlord that will fix problems and eat incidental appliance/roof/major expenses is a form of insurance paid as rental.
Yeah, I thought that when I was young too. The housing market can keep going up for much longer than you can hold out. Then, if there ever is a correction, it won't drop lower than this point right now.
My advice to any young'un thinking they can wait out the market: you can't, buy whatever you can afford as soon as you can and watch inflation reduce that painful monthly outgoing to something more manageable over time.
Housing isn't an investment opportunity. It's where you live.
- buy when home prices are 10x rent
- sell when home prices are 20x rent"
- The Big Short by Micheal Lewis [0]
I remember reading this quote and then checking NYC prices and it was a 33x multiple.
The mortgage was to allow people to eventually OWN THE PROPERTY, not a leveraged investment.
It's an interesting development that some (most?) regular people have forgotten that there is a 3rd option, not just rent or loan. You can actually OWN the thing and pay only property tax on it.
Another meaningful reason is that it is a hedge against inflation. You pay a fixed amount for housing for 360 months, rather than having to adjust rental payments that will tend to go up over that time frame.
cautiouscat•26m ago
onlyrealcuzzo•11m ago
I decided that I'd just go into credit card debt and live in the crappiest hotel that I could find until I had enough money to pay the first/last/security deposit.
Luckily, I found some shady landlord on Craigslist that turned out to be pretty chill, and just let me move in without even paying until I had the money. Dude even picked me up from the airport and moved me right in. It was kind of a rip-off for a room, but it was furnished, and I wasn't going to be in a position to buy furniture for months, so it worked out for both of us for 6 months or so.
I do wonder... At what point does this start to impact who can and can't even move to your area for work? Have we already reached that point?
the_sleaze_•8m ago
Just build corporate housing.
Then we can have little Amazon towns where all your needs are met and everyone lives in perfect harmony in downtown San Fransisco.
morkalork•4m ago
the_sleaze_•3m ago
inigyou•4m ago
Vertical integration isn't that unethical if you religiously stick to only integrating what would otherwise suck.
willmadden•2m ago