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Tax cuts for the wealthy only benefit the rich (2023)

https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/research-for-the-world/economics/tax-cuts-for-the-wealthy-only-benefit-the-rich-debunking-trickle-down-economics
82•mooreds•52m ago

Comments

teach•28m ago
Quelle surprise!
cdrnsf•28m ago
Well, yes — much like trickle down economics.
ceejayoz•26m ago
Yeah, turns out the trickle is just piss.
ratelimitsteve•24m ago
the rising tide that's supposed to lift all boats? also piss.
numbers_guy•27m ago
No shit. If you want a tax cut to have an economic impact, cut taxes for the poorest, the ones with the least disposable income.

EDIT: Seems like the article is suggesting that giving more disposable income to the rich, results in them using that extra income to buy capital rent seeking assets. So it is a double fuck you to the poor. Because not only do the rich end up paying proportionally less in taxes, but they also use the extra money to compete with you for your home, buy the home and rent it back to you, putting you in an even worse financial situation.

ratelimitsteve•25m ago
it really does trickle up, and the greater percentage of their income the beneficiaries spend on consumables the greater the upward benefits.
iso1631•20m ago
More "vacuumed up" than trickled
manlymuppet•25m ago
The thing I don't like about this is that it treats trickle-down economics as if it's something that needs to be debunked. Trickle-down economics has never been a real economic policy, and never been seriously advocated by federal policy-makers. It is an entirely pejorative term created by detractors of supply-side economics.

The policies of supply-side economics, however, are much more defensible, but it seems people would much rather pick on the strawman.

smallmancontrov•22m ago
You're right, it's not one lie, it's a pack of lies, trotted out every time congress needs to justify another capital gains tax cut or rationalize why the next tax hike needs to target work not wealth.
ghurtado•16m ago
It's much more than a set of lies, it's an entire cultural phenomenon 100% USA made.

Unlike many of our worst ideas, I'm actually surprised this one didn't become more popular around the world.

smallmancontrov•7m ago
I've been reading about the US progressive era of 100 years ago and I am seeing many of the same arguments that I heard growing up from my Reagan-worshipping parents. It's both frustrating and encouraging to see that we soundly defeated these at one point before the pendulum swung back. They didn't invent a new pack of lies, they just put the old one in the microwave and gave them 30 seconds.

In any case, I suspect that were I to learn about the industrial revolution I would find that the Robber Barons didn't invent their talking points either and that they simply took British Industrialist talking points and, err, gave them 3 minutes on the stove.

twoodfin
miguel_rdp•16m ago
In other news, the pope is catholic
eks391•11m ago
I also heard that every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes
livinglist•16m ago
But hey it’s for the greater good eh, like Effective Altruism that people like Dario or Peter Thiel have been really obsessed with.
curiousgal•15m ago
I think the real issue in the UK is the definition of "wealthy". The government seems to think it's people making more than 50k...
amelius•12m ago
Can we please tax the negative effect that big money has on the rest of us?

I mean I'm perfectly fine with people who work hard making a lot of money. But that changes once that money is used against me. From that moment on I want to be compensated for damages, and the best way to do it is through taxes.

gardnr•34s ago
I want a system that taxes things we don't want (unproductive rent-seeking) and doesn't tax things we do want (productive stuff e.g. income tax).

I don't want to be personally compensated. I just want to live in a society where people's basic needs are easily met: clothes, food, medicine, housing. The current landscape is, by the day, increasingly dystopian.

hunterpayne•12m ago
The scientists who worked for the cigarette companies couldn't find a link to cancer. Economists who work in academia can't find working economic policies for the same reason. Private sector economists on the other hand...actually place bets and get rewarded or punished for being wrong. Not shockingly, they have very different opinions from the academic economists.

PS And you wonder why Mississippi is richer than the UK.

PPS The Laffer curve is real, has a mountain of evidence and disproves this paper.

HaloZero•4m ago
I thought the scientist who worked for cigarettes companies did find a bunch of links but the companies squashed the results. It’s pretty famously known that they knew cigarettes were bad for you decades ago.
charcircuit•9m ago
Giving tax cuts to public companies allows anyone to invest in them and benefit from that.

Also just because someone benefits, that doesn't mean that other people have to suffer.

t-writescode•5m ago
You have to have enough liquid to be able to invest.

If basic needs aren’t being sufficiently eased, there’s no money left to invest.

alistairSH•3m ago
They're literally argue the opposite in the paper... when taxes are lowered, executives demand higher compensation, at the expense of their employees.
•
11m ago
When is the last time either of those things (capital gains rate cuts, tax hikes on the lower 90% of income earners) happened?

I think it’s been decades by now.

vlovich123•1m ago
When did the previous tax cuts get rolled back vs getting extended in perpetuity?
shadow_it•21m ago
this is correct. i suspect many simply do not know this because the straw-man is so pervasive.
ghurtado•18m ago
> as if it's something that needs to be debunked.

When half the country has believed something for close to a half a century, across multiple generations, you bet your ass it needs to be debunked. The fallacy of the "precious job creators" is as American as "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps"

The fact that you and I were not dumb enough to fall for it doesn't really help anyone in the grand scheme of things. There's still an insane amount of work left in educating the public, and we may even be regressing at this point.

diob•17m ago
I mean, when I googled supply-side economics it said it was another name for trickle-down economics. I'm interested in how you'd say they differ, honestly, not trying to be argumentative.

I found at least found one analysis (by a left leaning think tank, so take it for what you will) https://www.americanprogress.org/article/the-failure-of-supp... that seems to show that supply-side economics hasn't panned out.

It seems obvious that there is an optimal tax rate, too much or too little is bad. But I'd definitely say right now we are far far on the too little side of things.

manlymuppet•13m ago
I don't know where you're looking, but if you go to the first result for trick-down economics, the Wikipedia page, within the first few lines in mentions how the term is used, and how it was created by detractors of supply-side economics. It's never been a real policy.

"the term 'trickle-down economics' was popularized by Democrats in the US to derogate Reaganomics"

If you similarly look up supply-side economics, at the top of the Wikipedia page it says "not to be confused with trickle-down economics".

I'll happily take you on your word that you're not trying be argumentative. It's certainly not your fault that this strawman has been so widely spread that people think it's a real policy idea now. It is confusing to me too.

As for whether supply-side economics actually works, to say it "hasn't panned out" I think, is really oversimplifying. Has capitalism (efficient markets but also environmental decay) worked? Has socialism (universal healthcare but also the military) worked? It depends on who your asking and in what regard. In some ways yes and in other ways no. The category is too broad.

Also, just as important as how much we tax is where we tax. Carbon tax (very good) vs stamp duty tax (very bad). Competent policy sometimes allows you to have your cake (supporting government services) and eat it too (not sacrificing growth).

dghlsakjg•11m ago
You’re describing the Laffer curve.

Much of Reagan’s trickle down stuff was based on the idea that we were on the wrong side of the peak.

dasil003•17m ago
When you are rich, it allows a lot more time and funding to come up with arguments supporting policies that will make you even more rich.
diabeetusman•16m ago
So do %s/trickle-down/supply-side/g , then, if it's the term that's bothering you. Doesn't "debunking" trickle-down economics then, by extension, debunk supply-side economics? I'm not clear on the meaningful difference
alistairSH•6m ago
You'd think so but not even a decade ago Kansas tried it again and it failed and the GOP continues to cut taxes for the wealthy and people keep electing them.

Most of the nation (and world) never took any economics. This stuff is all magic or religion or whatever to them. Ronnie Raygun is as good as a saint to much of the US.

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