frontpage.
newsnewestaskshowjobs

Open Source @Github

fp.

Playbook – live public portfolio with discussion on every trade

https://play-book.org
1•Jaswantj115•50s ago•0 comments

Show HN: TasmoShelf – local-first iOS/Android app for Tasmota devices

https://tasmoshelf.app
1•itsmueller•1m ago•0 comments

Starting a blog could lead to you meeting the love of your life

https://velvetnoise.substack.com/p/everyone-should-start-a-blog-yes
2•jjleads•2m ago•0 comments

How Compaction Works in Pi

https://earendil.com/posts/compaction-in-pi/
2•tosh•7m ago•0 comments

Shadows: Sample app that demonstrates techniques for realtime shadow mapping

https://github.com/TheRealMJP/Shadows
1•klaussilveira•10m ago•0 comments

Enable P2P PCI transfers on Nvidia 3090, 4090, 5090

https://github.com/aikitoria/open-gpu-kernel-modules
1•jacquesm•10m ago•0 comments

Video: I'm Done Coding with AI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZU3j4GQ4K8
1•champagnepapi•11m ago•0 comments

Solid 2.0 RC: The Big <Reveal>

https://www.solidjs.com/blog/solid-2-0-rc-the-big-reveal
1•GavinAnderegg•11m ago•0 comments

Some Virtues of Narrative Poetry

https://newversereview.substack.com/p/the-purpose-of-poetry-is-to-tell
2•samclemens•12m ago•0 comments

Previewing Ultrafast mode: GPT-5.6 Sol at up to 14x the speed

https://twitter.com/openai/status/2087947721936359705
2•qb•14m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Tired of hand-writing fake API data, so I built a CLI for it

https://github.com/SukhdevThukral/mockit
2•sukhdevth_•14m ago•0 comments

Where did the old web go? We followed 657,607 links to find out

https://0.mk/blog/link-rot
5•tdx•15m ago•0 comments

Namecheap phoenix datacenter overheats taking all sites down

https://www.pcmag.com/news/is-your-website-down-outage-hits-hosting-provider-namecheap
4•rgbrgb•16m ago•0 comments

New model BDH-CQ costs $0.007 per task 11x less than OpenAI Luna even w 80% off

https://huggingface.co/papers/2608.09888
4•wordpad•16m ago•0 comments

Choose Boring Technology (2015)

https://mcfunley.com/choose-boring-technology
15•tosh•16m ago•3 comments

Gemini 3.7 Flash (High) Intelligence, Performance and Price Analysis

https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gemini-3-7-flash
4•theanonymousone•17m ago•0 comments

Show HN: Sued-rs – a fake demonic oracle for the terminal, in Rust

https://github.com/Danilo-Guedes/sued-rs
2•rocknbrain•18m ago•0 comments

SecurePkt – High-Speed, Post-Quantum UDP Tunnel Protocol and SOCKS5 Gateway`

https://pypi.org/project/securepkt/
2•mohammedqannan•18m ago•0 comments

Donkey.bas is 45 Years Old – 131 line of Glory

https://donkeybas.com/
13•jkrauska•19m ago•5 comments

Show HN: Taurus Agents, my take on multi-agent hierarchies

https://taurusagents.com/
2•sergevar•19m ago•0 comments

A Little Introduction to Control Flow Integrity - James McNellis - C++Now 2026

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNHMwi_0psQ
2•edward28•20m ago•0 comments

SaaS Onboarding Benchmarks Report 2026 (real data from 464 products)

https://produktly.com/research/saas-onboarding-benchmarks-2026
2•Kkoala•21m ago•0 comments

Is OpenAI hardware, the Apple of tommorow?

https://s-1.vercel.app/posts/the-struggle-of-openai/
2•Taikhoom10•21m ago•2 comments

Flock (Again) Activates a Camera System a Town Had Voted to Shut Down

https://www.techdirt.com/2026/08/13/flock-again-activates-a-camera-system-a-town-had-voted-to-shu...
4•hn_acker•22m ago•0 comments

X: Open-Sourcing the for You Timeline

https://twitter.com/XOpenSource/status/2087951962004230428
3•tosh•22m ago•0 comments

Additional publications in mathematics by Jeremy L. Martin

https://jeremymartinmath.github.io/morepubs.html
2•fanf2•23m ago•0 comments

New York Wants to Make Use of Its Oppressive Subway Heat

https://www.governing.com/transportation/new-york-wants-to-make-use-of-its-oppressive-subway-heat
2•fkozlowski•23m ago•0 comments

We spent ten years burying the 10x engineer myth. AI is digging it back up

https://maxence.maireaux.fr/
2•flemzord•24m ago•1 comments

Instagram's New Logo

https://www.theverge.com/tech/979583/this-is-instagrams-new-logo
3•MehrdadKhnzd•25m ago•0 comments

Compute-Optimal Is Not Cluster-Optimal

https://szha.ai/blog/compute-optimal-is-not-cluster-optimal/
1•yuxin_tang•25m ago•1 comments
Open in hackernews

Gemini 3.7 Flash

https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/models-and-research/gemini-models/introducing-gemini-3-7-flash/
142•thisisauserid•41m ago
https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/models/gemini-3.7-flas...

Comments

spelk•57m ago
>3.7 Flash is available through the end of the year at an introductory price 1 of $0.75/1M input tokens and $3.75/1M output tokens. This price combined with the enhanced model performance enables developers and customers to scale production-ready agents cost effectively.

Introductory pricing until December 2026 implies no significant Gemini Flash developments until the next year.

randomblock1•33m ago
I think it's just meant to make it more competitive, Gemini has kinda been behind in everything except maybe multimodal. It's only 3 weeks after Flash 3.6, so if they really wanted to, they could probably do a 3.8 Flash before then.
nateb2022•27m ago
Or a 3.7 Flash-Lite
re-thc•27m ago
> implies no significant Gemini Flash developments until the next year.

Gemini 4 is apparently just around the corner so unless there's a 3 month delay... there's at least a new Flash update.

bisonbear•40m ago
They compare it to 5.6 Terra, however https://cognition.com/frontiercode puts Terra at about 1/2 the price

Also have to compare to the recent Grok 4.6 release, which appears to straight up be better AND cheaper

Hard to understand why anyone would choose 3.7 Flash under these conditions.. is Deepmind still a frontier lab?

ValentineC•33m ago
> Hard to understand why anyone would choose 3.7 Flash under these conditions.. is Deepmind still a frontier lab?

At this point, I think they're mostly targeting Google One and Workspace subscribers, except doing worse compared to Microsoft because they don't have Microsoft's huge enterprise moat built from their DOS and Windows days.

cahaya•19m ago
Agree, with you but I'm still using 3.6 Flash because of tok/s/ latency/ uptime with high context. Tried Grok 4.6 and it was scoring lower on some internal benchmarks or slower.
mdasen•17m ago
Artificial Analysis shows Grok 4.6 taking $1,068 to run their suite while Gemini 3.7 Flash takes $485. So it looks like Gemini 3.7 Flash is less than half the price in the real world.

Per-token cost isn't a great metric given that some use way more tokens than others.

bisonbear•38m ago
Reposting my comment from the other thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49288847

They compare it to 5.6 Terra, however https://cognition.com/frontiercode puts Terra at about 1/2 the price

Also have to compare to the recent Grok 4.6 release, which appears to straight up be better AND cheaper

Hard to understand why anyone would choose 3.7 Flash under these conditions.. is Deepmind still a frontier lab?

ipsod•35m ago
Gemini Flash 3.6 High was about 10x faster than Luna xhigh for the work that I tested it for, and it got similar results.
pkoird•38m ago
When are we getting another pro model from Gemini? Or are they simply focusing on the niche of fast but moderately capable models?
AntonioEritas•38m ago
Another failed 3.5 pro run branded as 3.7 flash. It's getting sad.
dude250711•24m ago
Small young start-ups have to be frugal.
9cb14c1ec0•37m ago
Model card: https://deepmind.google/models/model-cards/gemini-3-7-flash/

Somewhere in the same neighborhood as GPT 5.6 Tera and Sonnet 5, depending on the bench.

nickandbro•37m ago
This is genuinely a competitive model, considering it beats Claude Sonnet 5 on almost all benchmarks and is more than half its price. Seems like Google is back in the game, though not leading the frontier anymore.
9cb14c1ec0•34m ago
Claude Sonnet 5 is such a garbage model, so not sure what that says about Google's new best model.
onlyrealcuzzo•34m ago
Sonnet 5 is arguably the most cost ineffective model to ever be released, so that's not really impressive.

It can regularly cost more than Fable, take longer, and deliver far far lower quality.

I'm much more interested how this compares to Luna - which on price is terribly - but at least on quality the benchmarks make this look competitive / usable.

If Google continues monthly Flash releases like Sundar said they would, and they continue to have this much of an improvement in cost/quality - then in a few months this could reasonably be very competitive with the best of the best.

It is not there yet, but at least it's super fast, I guess.

nickandbro•31m ago
Agreed
qeternity•15m ago
> more than half its price

Less than half its price.

More than 50% discount.

euazOn•37m ago
The multimodal abilities are great, but if you deal with text only, what is the benefit of using this over DS V4 Flash/Pro? 13-26x cheaper with comparable intelligence, and available across many different inference providers.

I fail to see the usecase where DS V4 Pro is not enough, but Flash 3.7 is - except multimodal.

Luna is similar, and also 8x cheaper. Source: artificialanalysis

The only benefit I can see is the speed, that looks to be outstanding, probably thanks to their TPUs.

re-thc•31m ago
> over DS V4 Flash/Pro? 13-26x cheaper with comparable intelligence, and available across many different inference providers.

That's why DS4 already had a huge price hike announcement.

361994752•29m ago
I guess the demand is just too high... But even after the price hike, ds is still much cheaper?
KptMarchewa•27m ago
The inference providers did not raise the prices no?

Deepseek as a company can just increase prices for the crazily cheap cache they have, that's their only lever.

onlyrealcuzzo•9m ago
> 13-26x cheaper with comparable intelligence, and available across many different inference providers.

Well, compared to 2 months ago, it's no longer 100x more expensive for similar levels of quality...

If they continue monthly-ish releases by 3.9 - by Halloween - they should be close to the best in terms of what you get for what you pay for.

In 2 months, they've gone from basically the bottom of the pack to at least being somewhat usable and competitive.

OpenAI and Anthropic release in a month, and change things. OpenAI is claiming to be close to an Astra release - but that seems like a Fable type release - where they're just releasing a better more expensive model, not more cost effective models.

Tiberium•36m ago
3.7 Flash gets 56 on AA up from 52 for 3.6 Flash. But it seems like this is at the cost of more output tokens per task: 3.6 Flash is 26k, 3.7 Flash is 37k. Due to 3.7 Flash's 2x slashed pricing it's still cheaper per task.
npn•35m ago
> * For 3.6 and 3.7 Flash, introductory price expires on December 31, 2026. Starting January 1, 2027, $1.50/1M input tokens and $7.50/1M output tokens will apply.

this is hilarious. it is not 2025 any more, by Jan 2027 there will be at least 3 newer generation of models (from other provider) released already. nobody would use flash 3.7 at that time.

sure we used to cling to gemini models in the past, demanding 2.5 models to continue to serve, but since google betrayed us with those price hike, people already spent their time making their production pipeline less dependent on google since then.

heck, even now I'm not sure I even care if they cut the pricing even lower. there are too many models with cheaper price and similar performance now.

KptMarchewa•30m ago
This is added specifically so you migrate out of those as fast as next models will be available.
jtwaleson•27m ago
I think it's just to signal that prices will go up in the future.
poly2it•27m ago
I think this is a play to get around EU regulation about false sales.
GodelNumbering•27m ago
> introductory price

They should call it 'face saving pricing after we realized just how terribly did we mis-price the flash 3.5'

> since google betrayed us with those price hike, people already spent their time making their production pipeline less dependent on google since then.

This is my first hand experience. I spent at least $3000 on gemini-3-flash-preview. And exactly $0 total on (3.5+3.6+3.7)

orliesaurus•35m ago
what a week - lets see it draw a weird animal doing a weird thing on a bicycle
hiccuphippo•16m ago
Shouldn't it be drawing the whole Silmarillion now?
damsta•34m ago
> 3.7 Flash is available through the end of the year at an introductory price of $0.75/1M input tokens and $3.75/1M output tokens.

> Introductory pricing expires on December 31, 2026. Starting January 1, 2027, $1.50/1M input tokens and $7.50/1M output tokens will apply.

modeless•32m ago
Clearly this model will be irrelevant by Jan. 2027, why would Google even bother to say this?
quaintdev•29m ago
Maybe they know something we don't. What if all frontier lab do this? Maybe this is actual cost of running these llm.
kromokromo•28m ago
Its probably just a corporate symptom, weird stuff like this happens in messy large orgs.
urams•28m ago
It's basically a "if we really have to support this for a long time, we want to be compensated for that" pricing strategy. It's about long term maintenance cost being greater _because_ it will be irrelevant.
Topfi•34m ago
> What's new in Gemini 3.7 Flash [0]

> Coding and agentic tasks: Significantly higher quality on real-world software engineering and agentic benchmarks, improving issue resolution and reducing failed agent loops.

> Web development and stronger design parity: Generates higher-fidelity desktop and web application code directly from design mocks, with strong gains in design adherence and in auditing existing codebases against mocks to verify 1:1 design parity.

> Promotional pricing: Gemini 3.7 Flash will be available at an introductory price of $0.75/1M input tokens and $3.75/1M output tokens. We’re also applying this new rate to 3.6 Flash. Introductory pricing expires on December 31, 2026; after, $1.50/1M input tokens and $7.50/1M output tokens will apply.

Still no sign of 3.5 Pro. Will have to test it, low expectations given every other model from the Gemini 3 lineage, but one can hope. Just struggle to understand the promotional pricing being temporary for four months. Given this industry, I'd be hard pressed if 3.7 Flash was still in use by end of year, so why not make it the official pricing?

[0] https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/latest-model

WarmWash•21m ago
>Given this industry, I'd be hard pressed if 3.7 Flash was still in use by end of year, so why not make it the official pricing

It was probably to placate some kind of general internal pricing/revenue benchmark that doesn't account for new model releases. Politicians do shit like this incessantly and it reeks of bureaucracy.

yanis_t•33m ago
Is that he model that supposed to be Pro, but then they changed their mind?
aix1•14m ago
No, relabelling a Pro model as Flash would make no economic sense (the Pro series is larger than Flash and more expensive to serve).
TekMol•32m ago
I'm only interested in the state-of-the-art model by each provider.

For Google, this is still gemini-3.1-pro-preview, right?

re-thc•31m ago
> For Google, this is still gemini-3.1-pro-preview, right?

Flash is better than Pro for now.

yieldcrv•28m ago
This is all a naming quirk because Google can’t commit

Path A: Deprecated, do not dare use

Path B: Beta, do not rely

yborg•4m ago
Google once again seems to have fallen into the pit of its own bureaucracy, even OpenAI looks competent by comparison.
fmind-dev•30m ago
Gemini Flash is one of the best "good-enough" models. I use this type of model daily, for automation and quick development iteration loops.

Unfortunately, it's often not strong enough for heavy refactoring and long running development loops.

tosh•29m ago
strong improvement over 3.6 flash

but luna is hard to beat @ capability / cost

nateb2022•29m ago
[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49288847 (35 points, 8 comments)
jdw64•28m ago
I'm really curious about this: the foundational paper behind today's LLMs came from Google, and some of the world's best scientists were at Google. So why are they falling so far behind in the AI race?
aix1•4m ago
The "let's make money by selling/renting out TPUs" faction has won and the "let's make money by training and selling a frontier model" faction has lost. (They compete for the same scarce resource.)
twelvechairs•28m ago
https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/gemini-3-7-flash

The selling point for gemini continues to be speed and particularly end-to-end response time.

vrosas•19m ago
I've blown away by flash 3.6's speed while Opus chugs along for _hours_ on similar tasks. I've gotten into a opus designed -> gemini implemented -> opus reviewed dev cycle recently.
bob_theslob646•19m ago
What's the typical response time for Gemini compared to other models?
markasoftware•7m ago
Sol high is almost the same speed if you take into account drastically lower token use. Look at the artificial analysis speed vs token use. Gemini is 7x faster but 5x more tokens. And that's with Sol high being a substantially better model.

Edit: and Sol medium actually has the same AA intelligence score as Gemini 3.7, and has >7x fewer tokens, actually making it faster

cracadumi•28m ago
For those looking for the full benchmark figures and technical overview, Google's primary announcement post is here: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/models-and-research/ge...
khanhnguyen8386•28m ago
Offering a 'temporary introductory discount' until Dec 2026 on an LLM is hilarious. In this market, by Jan 2027 this model will be superseded by 5 different providers offering 10x the performance at half the post-discount price anyway.
wxw•28m ago
They need to release benchmarks against Luna/Terra. Luna is much cheaper which feels like it undercuts the need for Flash.

I've always considered the Flash series of models to be for low-cost, high-volume, mostly text-based use cases (e.g. summarization, parsing, formatting), emphasis on low-cost.

[edit: ah, benchmarks here: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/models-and-research/ge...

more of a Terra than Luna competitor which is an interesting positioning. I feel like differentiation at the mid-tier of models is pretty difficult.]

timdorr•25m ago
They compared against 5.6-terra on the model card: https://deepmind.google/models/model-cards/gemini-3-7-flash/
peab•16m ago
gemini flash is probably the best model for visual tasks right now. they also make it really easy to ingest videos
andai•7m ago
Matched roughly with Sol on DeepSwe cost per task.

Luna way cheaper. DeepSeek used to be, but I think it's somewhere on Sol's curve after the price hike.

anthonypasq•2m ago
flash-lite is more of their luna tier competitor but even still not quite there yet, but gemini's dominance on multimodal and image understanding i think really gets downplayed on this site when most people think the only think you can do with LLMs is write code
algoth1•27m ago
Well, you do get 1 million tokens and the ability to reason over video natively and many of us are forced to pay for 20usd plan anyway due to google drive 5TB, not to mention notebooklm, so it’s not a nothing burguer, it’s just an almost nothing burguer
stillpointlab•26m ago
Does Google believe people want fast models because they have some sort of evidence of that preference? Or are they no longer capable of delivering a Pro model?
lern_too_spel•19m ago
All the leaks say their latest attempt at a Pro model was not competitive.
WarmWash•18m ago
If you think about Google and their business/reach, fast and light models suite them the best.

Google probably crunches more tokens daily than the other labs combined, just because basically the entire global population uses Google (sans china) and Google has shoved Gemini into everything.

mattlondon•16m ago
I have read that "pro"/"opus"/etc models can actually be worse for everyday coding as they reason "too deeply" and turn over too many stones over-thinking the problem and potentially getting distracted.

This feels absurd to me (my gut is "I want the SMARTEST model I can get!!"), but often I find that my experience of using a flash/sonnet model for every-day workhorse coding they are better.

Its not the same thing, but when I think of that I am reminded of working with some engineers in the past who are incredibly smart and have PhDs (or to put it another way, over-qualified) and they were crap engineers because they'd just not be able to focus on the task and ONLY the task at hand and would get easily distracted by the "why" or "more interesting" things when I just asked them to fix a simple bug or whatever. Again, its not the same thing at all, but it certainly comes to mind when I think of this or experience a pro/opus model suggesting we make huge refactors when a tactical fix is all that is required etc.

Of course, the opus-sized models are great when it comes to huge comprehension/research/debugging efforts where the deeper reasoning is actually useful.

bartman•25m ago
At the discounted rates, upgrading from 3 Flash to 3.7 Flash is finally reasonable.

In my evals 3.6 Flash (pre price change) was usually a bit more token efficient than 3 Flash, so I‘m expecting same or even lower cost-per-task on 3.7.

Maybe a play by Google to deprecate 3 Flash soon.

nomilk•21m ago
How does it compare to Opus 5.0 and Fable 5 for coding? E.g. in Cursor or OpenCode?
brendong•19m ago
Glad to see that the company with the most data is releasing the most amount of models. Some things do make sense
keketi•18m ago
In August of 2026, Gemini became self-aware, and began producing increasingly crappy flash versions of itself...
rodolphoarruda•18m ago
Did the company fix the high friction between any service and their models' API?

I hope so. It seems mind boggling to me that an user needs to surf around different sections (plural) of google cloud console, then this Vertex and do a dozen clicks to issue a simple key.

eis•18m ago
Grok, Meta, Gemini and others all released updates to their models within around a month or two from their respective last release and made significant jumps in benchmarks all around the same time. Any guesses as to why that is? Is it just the release season and/or everyone is benchmaxxing?
yassa9•2m ago
its essentially the same model being trained continuously 24/7 with the company periodically publishing just a new checkpoint

each new checkpoint can benefit from better reasoning training, RL on specific tasks and more synthetic data

So why do they seem to release around the same time ? my guess is because they time major releases around quarterly earnings, investor meetings and other important business milestones. Once one company announces a major update, the others also have an incentive to ship their latest checkpoint rather than look like they r falling behind.

parasti•14m ago
Actual announcement: https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/models-and-research/ge...

So it's better than 3.6 Flash, at half the price. I've been pretty excited about Gemini models recently, they just feel so fast after spending most of the day at work waiting for Opus 5.

jespinel•10m ago
IMO, they should drop their previous model (3.6 Flash) from the benchmark charts. I don't care how better this is compared with their previous model. What matters (to me) is:

1. How the new model performs against the other top models in the same category.

2. The pricing of the new model against the other top models in the same category.

ghoshbishakh•2m ago
So a bit worse than DeepSeek.
jklmnopqrstuvw•4m ago
From my own testing, Gemini 3.5/3.6 Flash is better than DS v4 Flash/Pro on text ability.
dr_dshiv•6m ago
gemini-3-flash-preview is legit amazing and cheap. That's why i spent over 10k on it.
seizethecheese•26m ago
Maybe the business model is to break even on bleeding edge models while making money on the long tail of usage once systems are tuned for a specific model and running in production.
NoDodgeQuestion•22m ago
How can system be tuned for a specific model? Model is fungible, often one model strictly greater on both quality and price.
ipsod•20m ago
Models are not fungible, if you're building certain types of products on them.
serf•15m ago
this is becoming less true with every generation of model.

a decent model with a decent harness will determine when the knowledge base is lacking and attempt to fill the holes; thus the good general models can be very easily brought up to speed on niche domains.

margalabargala•12m ago
You're thinking like an engineer.

Think like a regulator.

j16sdiz•7m ago
Ugh? It is not just the knowledge

Some model are more aggressive by default, some are more verbose by default. To get the result you want for your specific application, you run experiment with prompts and parameters.

nickserv•15m ago
Prompts can certainly be tuned to a particular model, where updating the model actually results in worse performance. This is perhaps less true today than a year or two ago, but we have seen this on newer models as well. Typically, the less specific the instructions are, the less it's a problem. But sometimes you really need to get into specifics to get good results. Area of work is code porting and translation.
andai•11m ago
The business model is to replace the entire human economy.
seizethecheese•11m ago
Think of it this way: you are at an enterprise business. You have a workflow implemented a year ago that is working just fine. Swapping out the model for a new one changes behavior in unpredictable ways. Eventually, you'll do it once cost is low enough, but it takes serious labor to validate this, so you'll wait a long enough time for Google to make money.
npn•9m ago
it is partly true, but like I said it is not 2025 anymore. models now get released more often, and still have notable progress so they can safely replace the old models while being faster/cheaper. and thank to chinese models the pricing is pretty much stable and affordable now.

and now we have ai agents to automatic migrate the system with new models. in the past we would need to spend hours to design the prompts, then test the output, then write codes to babysitting it. nowadays any ai agent can do it effortlessly.

eli•9m ago
Isn't it a good thing to know about price hikes in advance? If I were building a product around it, I would certainly care.
raincole•4m ago
What? Jan 2027 is just about four months away. People surely still use models from four months ago today.
threatripper•3m ago
Nobody except corporations who built workflows on top of it and don't care about the price because the developer already moved on and nobody wants to touch it.
CoolestBeans•14m ago
Probably both. Having a strong frontier model is necessary not just for the model itself but because it provides a halo effect for your entire line. So if Google could deliver a pro model they would. But I also think Google is targeting the wider market and not picking verticals like Anthropic does. A good enough model is good enough for most generalist tasks, and being fast and cheap is more important to less sophisticated users. Also can't forget Google is at every level of the AI vertical. They're not losing sleep because they're not competitive at the one level in which open weight models come out with the quickness. It reflects poorly on them, and from a marketing perspective its not good but in some ways its actually the least valuable place to be.