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Will you have spent more of your life with computers than your family?

https://beachfront.bearblog.dev/will-you-have-spent-more-of-your-life-with-computers-than-your-family/
42•Gecko4072•44m ago

Comments

FaridIO•24m ago
Is this really that weird, considering labor now involves mostly looking at a screen? In other words, is the total amount of time we see family really going down vs say the 1800s, when people used to work many more hours.
Artgor•23m ago
I could say that we spend more time at work than with our family - ~40h. Why are computers worse?
Groxx•20m ago
Yeah, this has always been my take too. Assuming an even 8h split on weekdays, the awake-not-working time is heavily eaten up by commuting and general upkeep. Family squeezes into shared upkeep and any remaining time at best.

The two weekend days don't seem enough to catch up to the accumulated work-time, especially if your commute is relatively long (which is true for a large chunk of the USA), so you're just constantly in a deficit until you retire... which is more of an "if" than a "when" in many cases.

Which is clearly a problem, but I don't think computers are the cause.

drivebyhooting•23m ago
And before that it was TV. And before that newspapers.

This is breathless polemic.

jmathai•23m ago
I think a better way to ask this question is if I was entertained by a computer more than by the company of friends/family.

Of course I spend more time looking at a screen - it's my job description. It's never been different in the past. But outside of work, that's a different story.

ctoth•20m ago
Is a TV not an entertaining screen? Was it not in 1970, when TV use metrics were already insane?

https://www.jstor.org/stable/40375906

criddell•22m ago
This reminds me of Tim Urban's excellent post The Tail End[1] he wrote a few years ago.

He calculates that when a person reaches age 18, they have spent more than 90% of their in-person parent time. As a parent and a son, that hits pretty hard.

Obviously, YMMV.

[1]:https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/12/the-tail-end.html

alberth•22m ago
Shouldn’t the title actually be “Will you have spent more of your life AT WORK than with your family”.

For white-collar jobs typically translates to, computer = work.

HedonicEscal8r•21m ago
If you think of your screen is a big glowy box of noise that fails to contribute to a good, meaningful life, that's a problem! Put better things on your screen.
matheusmoreira•20m ago
What if better things don't pay a salary?
sebst•21m ago
Valid point. Using a screen for your daily work is one side. Another is sitting with family members together who are staring on a screen like zombies. I guess it’s the latter part that the author claims to be different than 10 years ago. I feel it.
dotancohen•21m ago
My father spent more time in the office than with his family. My ancestors spent more time in the field than with family. My distant ancestors probably spent significant family time hunting together.

Is there any way to make the profession a family affair again?

Apocryphon•20m ago
Open a restaurant?
lr4444lr•18m ago
I don't think your ancestors sat around the living room while their kids were playing threshing wheat, though. They put the plowshares down once it got dark.
fao_•8m ago
Time in the field would have been spent with family, too. Women used to weave and spin loom for clothing as they walked, and developed tools for it. Families used to include the children in the field work when possible, in rural areas. In addition, families working the fields used to spend less time working than modern adults do, not more[1]

> The ancien règime in France is reported to have guaranteed fifty-two Sundays, ninety rest days, and thirty-eight holidays. In Spain, travelers noted that holidays totaled five months per year.

One of the reasons why children, teens, and young adults have become so infantalised is because they are socialised mostly around each other, and spend a lot of time being told "no you can't, you are a child". This is not a call for children to enter the mines, and I do not wish to see child labour laws repealed (as they are apparently being in some parts of the USA). But for children to be socialised correctly, they must maintain connections with people of all ages, both older and younger — all benefit from such an arrangement. For them to grow up, they must be treated as people, and given age-appropriate responsibility and inclusion in the tasks that adults do. It is harder to teach a teenager to wash the dishes and their clothes, than it is to ask for a child's help washing the dishes and your/their clothes. The children are happy to help and to be included, you get to teach them rudimentary tasks, and it counts as family bonding time. The alienation of children from adults, and the alienation of children from their parents' work, is a great loss to society as a whole.

[1]: https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_...

apsurd•19m ago
The sentiment is valuable but screens <-> family comparison bleeds too much into the polarization camp for shock value. "Time spent doing X" as opposed to Y will always have shock value. We sleep too much. Too much time reading on the toilet.

My main pushback is solitude. I don't actually want to timemaxx family interaction or any human interaction. I don't want to be the only one on the planet either, we need one another. But a life well-lived includes deep experiences in solitude if you ask me.

EDIT: and another thing! human interaction here focuses entirely on the living and the related. Why? Human connection can span all of humanity. And it should.

margalabargala•5m ago
I agree with most of what you said, however a big point of contention would be that the activities most people tend to spend time doing solo on their computer, do not tend to engender the types of "deep solitude experiences" you talk about
eqmvii•18m ago
I like computers more than many members of my family, so...
alexjplant•8m ago
This is probably heavily conditioned on one's specific experiences. An uncurated modern web/mobile sounds like a hellscape - ads in one's start menu, autoplaying videos, a flood of promotional notifications from shopping apps, people arguing with bots arguing with people about populist political garbage... blech. The real question is how this compares to your family member having a few cocktails and blaming you for their divorce or getting calls from collection agencies on behalf of somebody you haven't seen in person in five years.
jdw64•15m ago
My life has been more aligned with computers, and I prefer it that way. Computers don't lie, they don't pressure you. At least they respond honestly to my input, almost all the time. Everything outside of computers was awful. So I like everything that involves computers. The internet let me read and learn so much, which made computers good for me. There are downsides, like YouTube and some communities, but overall, I enjoy building things with computers and making them work.

On the other hand, the world outside computers was mostly bad—people who deceived me when I was just starting out, fraudulent contracts, and all the physical pain I went through in manual labor. Looking at it from the other side, people with real-world capital tend to have good relationships and good people around them. But for those without that capital, the world inside a computer can actually feel more real than the outside.

I've come to realize that trustworthy colleagues and respectful relationships largely depend on social status. And it feels like I don't really belong there.

Computers don't get angry when I can't do something. They don't ask me to meet some standard, and they don't get frustrated when I fail to meet it. I can learn at my own pace, doing what I want. In the past, I had to reach out to people online and exchange emails during that process, but now even that's been replaced by AI giving me answers.

For me, computers aren't a cheap substitute for human relationships. They're the infrastructure that gave me the autonomy, knowledge, and productive capability I never got from the real world.

A shelter and a prison can look the same from the outside. But I chose to be here, because this world inside the computer has been less painful than what I experienced outside.

When code fails, at least I can investigate why it failed. People, on the other hand, can twist the same words depending on relationships and power, and exclude you without ever explaining why.

That's why I like computers. At least when I turn on my computer, work on something, and see it run, I feel a sense of accomplishment, whether it's AI generated or hand written code.

Honestly, I'm not sure if having my own home or meeting someone compatible would change anything.

dismalaf•15m ago
You can't think of it as computers vs. family, but work vs. family. And working with computers is a pretty decent job to have in this day and age.
jesse_dot_id•12m ago
Yes, thankfully so. Computers probably got me out of my teens alive.
gobdovan•12m ago
"Can you stack your family?" - Michael Falk, The Onion
montroser•10m ago
You can do so many different things with a computer. If you spend hours watching AI generated YouTube shorts instead of playing outside with your kids, then yeah, that's too bad.

But if you spend all those hours building a retro/modern sim city game pair programming with your 12yo, designing the artwork, crafting the story arc, writing the music, finding and fixing bugs, building new levels -- you don't need to regret that you weren't idling around at the park all that time.

AndrewDucker•4m ago
I should hope so. You can't play Dark Souls on my family.
Gecko4072•3m ago
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