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10-year Treasury yield climbs above 5.3% to a level not seen in 24 years

https://www.wsj.com/finance/investing/surging-yields-bring-the-bond-market-back-to-the-turn-of-the-century-2b74773f
44•kaycebasques•49m ago

Comments

valleyer•22m ago
Oy. I'm no fiscal conservative, but the US federal government absolutely needs to balance its budget. Otherwise, it's bound to either choke on interest payments, devalue the dollar, or both.

Unlike most Trumpists, I see the the problem as a revenue issue, not expenditures; unlike many non-Trumpists, I doubt "tax the rich" is going to be enough to plug the hole.

Government healthcare payments would be a good start -- it seems likely that the amount most employees already (effectively) pay for health insurance could fund equivalent government coverage with some money left over to help pay for other government expenses.

consumer451•19m ago
I am getting way too old for this. No more "both sides." Look at the data. If you want a balanced budget, there is one party to avoid.
valleyer•7m ago
I don't feel like I "both sides"ed it that much, but I guess reasonable minds can disagree. But: neither party has balanced the federal budget, or even made (sane) noises about doing so, since the Democrats in the 90s. I haven't heard much about it from Democrats this election cycle -- perhaps reasonably so since there are much more critical issues at the moment.
y1n0•1m ago
[delayed]
y1n0•4m ago
There hasn’t been a balanced budget for 25 years. Today’s parties aren’t the same.
margalabargala•17m ago
I'm unconvinced that "balance the budget" is the issue here.

Interest rates are a function of inflation and joblessness. Both of which the current administration has created via terrible (for the country; great for the family members of the administration) policies.

The terrible policies are destroying jobs and causing the prices of goods to go up, thus increasing interest rates. The administration could balance the budget, but that would not correct the interest rate problem unless they also stop enriching themselves at the expense of the rest of the country.

valleyer•4m ago
How are interest rates a function of joblessness? Do you mean inversely?

My amateur understanding is that prevailing interest rates are more directly a function of supply and demand for capital; I agree that higher prices increase demand for capital. Joblessness would seem to be correlated with lower demand; the unexpected combination of high employment and persistently low interest rates in the 2010s was a source of a lot of commentary, as I recall.

__MatrixMan__•1m ago
I'm sure jobs are an important aspect here, but I kind of doubt that we can fix this without also finding a way to refocus our efforts on endeavors that most people approve of. As it is, letting the US succeed is bad and letting it fail is worse. That's unlikely to remain stable forever.
bshaughn•14m ago
A good faith cooperate tax would solve most if not all of our deficit, and arguably increase our GDP growth.

A 5% revenue tax on the fortune 500 would get us half way there. I could not quickly get a number for total revenue of more than the fortune 500, but I would not be surprised if a 3% VAT would cover the entire deficit. We lose so much tax revenue due to all the loop holes deliberately left in the corporate tax code.

On top of that, ban stock buy backs entirely, that way more of the record breaking profits have to go to wages or other means of investing in the business.

trescenzi•11m ago
Right there’s a lot of easy answers mechanically but they are challenging politically. The longer we wait to do anything the better they’ll look though that’s for sure.
missedthecue•4m ago
"A 5% revenue tax on the fortune 500 would get us half way there."

Given that ~20% of that group have net income margins below 5%, how much of such a tax policy would simply be an inflationary tax on consumers? I.e., we know Walmart cannot simply pay a 5% revenue tax, that would instantly make them deeply unprofitable. So they would have to raise prices to afford the tax. And if they know Target, Kroger, Costco, and Amazon also need to pay the same 5% tax, there is less competitive pressure to eat into margin. Even with zero collusion, there is perfect information symmetry regarding the tax.

At their present 3.1% net margin, if Walmart passed a 5% gross-revenue tax entirely to consumers while all else stayed equal, prices would have to rise MORE than 5% -- about 5.44% just to preserve its existing margin. Of course, some of the tax burden likely gets shared between Walmart, its customers, supply chain, etc... but it seems like a very messy and inefficient tax.

On the VAT, the CBO has actually studied a 5% VAT tax and modeled that it would raise $330B. That's 16.5% of the current $2T deficit.

https://www.cbo.gov/budget-options/58637

missedthecue•18m ago
In 2026, entitlement spending + interest expense will be over 100% of federal tax revenue.

That's before the military, foreign aid, and everything that starts with "Department of"

toomuchtodo•14m ago
Yeah, cut the $1T/year in defense spending and raise taxes to pay down the debt (to cut $1T/year in interest expenses) and balance the budget. Entitlements remain because workers are entitled to those benefits they worked for. The same workers the wealthiest need to suck $5T+ dollars a year of profit out of the economy.

We used to have 94% top tax bracket rate at one point, and higher tax rates in general. We’ll find the will to raise taxes as soon as the bond market compels the spineless in Congress to find the will (as the cost of debt continues to rise into the future), because you cannot deceive the bond market.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/historical-income...

https://www.axios.com/2026/09/27/rates-borrowing-yields-fisc...

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/62758

margalabargala•11m ago
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. I thought you were wrong, looked it up, and you're correct.

In 2025, federal gov revenues (total, not just tax) were $5.26T: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/gover...

In 2026, entitlements plus interest is projected to cost $5.45T: https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/feder...

gradus_ad•18m ago
Stocks keep marching higher. And it's not irrational. Because the only way out of this mess (debt with high rates) is inflation.
brink•13m ago
Stocks historically haven't performed well during periods of high inflation.
consumer451•11m ago
Stocks keep marching higher, to stable yet irrational levels, because the .1% need to put their money somewhere. That level of wealth grows so quickly that it's impossible to know what to do with it. A literal embarrassment of riches.

Don't get me wrong, I want to be in that category, but still.. this is our reality. It's an interesting experiment we are running. Without external factors like global wars and climate catastrophe, could the market even crash in our current environment?

zmmmmm•16m ago
It's very hard to gauge realistically what this means. There are a lot of vested interests in the financial system not crashing and those put strong reinforcing effects back on things. But in the end it is a game of chicken where eventually being the last to bail out becomes higher risk than continuing to support a system where an imminent crash is possible. It feels like there are strong non-linear tipping points where things could go exponential pretty suddenly here.

The problem is that the level of debt overall in the US - across both private and public sector - is just astronomical. We are truly in unchartered waters, outside of a world war. There's just no model or playbook for how this should work from here forward, other than it seems very clear we will hit a point where the math stops "mathing" and that point is getting closer and closer.

GenerWork•11m ago
The primary issue is Social Security. It’s the biggest driver of spending, and nobody wants to do anything to cap its costs such as means testing or straight up lowering the amount it can pay out.

As for the people that will inevitably bleat about how this is just horrible and we need to lift the cap on taxable SS income, that wouldn’t solve the core problem either unless you pair it with spending caps or cuts.

what•5m ago
> and nobody wants to do anything to cap its costs such as means testing or straight up lowering the amount it can pay out

Yes because everyone paid into it and wants their money back with interest as promised? This isn’t weird.

s3p•2m ago
[delayed]
consumer451•2m ago
There is an easy solution to make Social Security solvent. Uncap the contribution. Problem solved.
tokioyoyo•10m ago
My knowledge of new-gen-econ is pretty subpar, but isn't the strategy of US "don't dare to bet against us, we're writing new rules of the game"? It feels like all governments are acknowledging "letting it rip will suck for everyone, so why would we even bother". Normal monetary policy has been thrown out of the window, and every large state bank has stated it very openly throughout the wars that have started in this decade. And this leads to a lot of state-level financial backdoor discussions, deals and "stuff" that I'm not knowledgeable enough to even think about.

Wild times. Maybe it's information overload, since it probably happened in the past as well. But being bombarded with implications of these changes left and right is kinda weird.

bobthepanda•4m ago
Normal economic policy hasn’t really been true since the 2007 financial crisis. Rates were kept at historically low rates because growth was anemic and everyone had seen Japan fail to pump up its economy. To some degree there was also thinking that countries in this situation should provoke inflation to get the growth flywheel growing again; at least the fixes to inflation are known vs deflation.

Well, it turns out that we did it with the COVID economic shocks, and for a while there was talk of a “soft landing” but that’s all but disappeared from the conversation.

tokioyoyo•2m ago
I'll comment under my own post about "why i think this is happening" - it's the fact that the average age of the population in the world is higher than it has ever been, especially in richer countries. Just like the "housing theory of everything" posts that circulated around some time ago, I think that is the core reason why so many illogical decisions are being thrown around.

I don't have deep knowledge, other than a bunch of "pattern matchings" I've done throughout my readings, but as people get older, on average, their wants/needs change over time. Older people, especially as they get closer to retirement age, have more free time as well. Implicitly, these desires eventually bubble up into economic/political action, that's more or less unprecedented. It would be very cool to research this more in depth, but unfortunately i'm in the wrong field.

petcat•10m ago
You want to see what's really bad, a train wreck in slow motion, just look at what France is doing.

They've been subject to EU Excessive Deficit Procedures for multiple years, must bring deficit-to-GDP ratio from ~5.8% down to 3% within 3 years despite virtually no GDP growth and complete political and societal paralysis about reducing any public benefit or welfare whatsoever.

ECB will most likely get involved after 2029 to start austerity measures. You can predict how that will go over with the French public especially if Le Pen takes the presidency, which looks likely.

Very tough times ahead and the EU is facing a critical point about its future.

clickety_clack•5m ago
If France or Germany are involved, it’s doubtful the ECB would be able to impose austerity.
zmmmmm•2m ago
Everyone thinks they can grow their way out of deficits, but it's always a pipe dream. It results in a growth obsessed economic plan that then causes all kinds of other stresses (such as being petrified of cutting immigration, for example). So much of this is all happening in lieu of politicians just being willing to have honest conversations with voters and take a risk of blowback. But I think people are over it and will value authenticity these days enough that it's a false economy. Just tell people the truth.
guelo•3m ago
It's weird how the discussion on this rarely mentions Trump's giant 2017 and 2025 tax cuts, plus the insane increase in military spending. Somehow it's always about we need to cut entitlements.

People need to study this graph https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFSD and think about what changed when.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbj0yfNz4_I
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